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we missed a cracking Manager in Gary Oneil who might have left Assistant manager role at Bournemouth to take us over instead of Dean Smith

Actually the really impressive goal, and which I suspect none of our other strikers would have scored, was the one where made a cute move so he could prompt and then run onto one of Sara’s long passes, had the control to cushion the ball just where he wanted it to be, and then finished clinically.

There really is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Some points for consideration. Any building project is not expected to pay for itself straight away, but over its useful economic life. You would normally, like any mortgage, expect to repay over a period of 20 to 30 years. The cost of build will be financed; if from an external finance company, expect the total cost including interest to be double to treble the original build cost. So, you first would look to see how much you can currently spare towards the project (Delia and Michael have said sod all, so ignore) plus how much you'd ideally expect to generate in new additional income every year. This gives you a capital budget to work with. Sure, there will be few iterations of this calculation as it will be a bit chicken and egg, whilst you work out a comfortable and realistic balance. So, some ball park figures. Replacing the City Stand with a 10,000 seater gives an extra 7,000 seats. That should generate c£4m income in tickets p.a. The secondary spend plus corporate hospitality income (the current ground is relatively short of such facilities) should generate c.£2m p.a. Throw in naming rights of £1m p.a. and you have new income of £7m p.a. over 30 years, a total of £210m. That should provide a capital build budget of £70 to 100m, depending on how Attanasio decides to finance this (note my accent on Attanasio, we will be using his experience to get the cheapest finance). And hey, we haven't touched the existing playing budget. Can it be done more cheaply than elsewhere; I think it can given the land around Carrow Road and relatively good access. The access problems at Anfield, Selhurst Park and Craven Cottage that drive up their capital costs can be avoided at Carrow Road. So does this still sound unfeasible? I still say the biggest issue is probably the same one that Delia and Michael have been frit of for years - the potential pissing off of the established City Stand'ers. They will have to be relocated during the build and they will have to be carefully looked after so as not to be lost altogether. Some will welcome the potential of better facilities, others will complain bitterly (evidence of this already exists on this thread). My thought is Attanasio will want to do this, but probably not until he has gained more control. I also think he will progress it irrespective of being an established EPL club which was the "false" ceiling criteria placed by Delia & Michael. So, spades in the ground in 2026. Who knows what division we will be in then?

Of course it would. I’m only reading this thread at a cursory level , but if we were doing well , rail strikes , cost of living , Boxing Day wouldn’t make any difference. We would sell our allocation out . We aren’t doing well. We are 12th. So other than the glorious die hard fans who deserve full credit , the demand is falling . Get to Wembley and we sell 30,000 tickets. Wouldn’t matter if it was in the deepest recession or if they moved Wembley to Scotland . Still sell out.

No, they didn't. As I work in the construction industry I can tell you that this would have been nowhere near enough time to have this completed. Also, we didn't know how long it was going to last anyway. It was smarter to not commit to something like an expansion during this time. People need to stop using the pandemic as an example of 'when they could have got it done', because it isn't even close. It's just shows you have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about.

You're absolutely right on all of this, however, the driver should not be purely short term monetary concerns. Having 30 odd thousand seats elevates the standing of the club in the national media and the international player market. I don't think it's as linear as saying "it costs X and each game you will make Y therefore the sums don't add up".

We have had plenty of successful managers at Carrow Road but the nature of the beast is that it is impossible to be successful forever.

I think Dave Stringer is enjoying his retirement rather too much to want to come back and weave his managerial magic again.

I wonder if Man City have an “Essex Citeh” who is still bitching about getting done 3-2 by a side with a fraction of their expenditure, no fit centre backs and a load of freebies playing? It’s football for farks sake. Results happen. We got twatted 7-1 at Blackburn once upon a time. We also got thumped 5-1 at Tottenham the same season. Man United beat Arsenal 8-3. Villa smashed Liverpool. It’s just football. You might as well focus on us winning 2-4 at Highbury with that delightful Robins chip. It’s a load of old pony and focusing on one result is idiotic. We lost 7-1 to Colchester; they’re struggling to stay in the football league. Was it Port Vale that thumped us six something? Absolute nonsense to concentrate on a single result especially when you’ve got more sticks in your armoury than that little piggies house. Literally nobody cares about your personal little beef (pork?) with the club. In fact, I’m going to make it my mission to train a pigeon to sh@t on your seat relentlessly.

He's been in the job six weeks, for ****s sake.

He arrived a month ago and we haven't even had so much as a transfer window yet. You've got literally nothing whatsoever to make any judgements on. Even when there has been a transfer window, it takes time to develop and embed. Arguably, not sacking Wagner is a decision of sorts that doesn't seem to be working out too badly.

Since he's been in charge. W4 D2 L2. Not bad so far.

If we could get him on a free and he continues to improve, sure - even if it is counter to the need to freshen up the squad. But I wouldn't pay a fee for him.

You think the pandemic was a good time to build? Are you on something?

Wouldn't sign him in January. End of the season is too far away to contemplate. I'd start him tomorrow. He looks better when he starts and Idah looks better from the bench.

Not if you're trying to get the average age down, which is something Knapper has specifically said needs addressing. I'd say he has close to zero chance of getting a permanent move.

Given that it looks like he’ll soon be back on the market; would you take Wayne Rooney as a replacement for Wagner? Young ambitious, elite level player…what’s not to like?

The Anfield Rd redevelopment at Liverpool is costing £80-£90m and there is no evidence to show that adding a second tier to our Main Stand would not be similar. Thanks to the hordes of football tourists & Executive clients - all paying upwards of £150 for a ticket + chicken-dinner at Anfield - LFC are generating an additional £10m per season in matchday income. If NCFC added 7,000 new seats matchday income for the season would rise by less than £3m. The sums do not add up, which is why McNally/Moxey/Webber/Ward have not taken the plunge. If the main driver for ground expansion is getting kids in, then I can't see it happening. But if the main driver is economic, then the club can do that by increasing ticket prices.

It's a little bit mischievous to suggest that plans could have been drawn up, planning application made, environmental and other concerns explored, contractors considered and chosen and the extension built all within the time we were going through the pandemic. Also the fact that there were severe supply chain problems and rapidly rising prices of materials.

Anything to get the lights off of the city stand! They are absolutely blind from where I sit if I look on that direction. At least if it was taller like the south stand it would be less like looking into the heart of the burning sun.

Whilst increasing capacity is a key driver, I don’t think development should be postponed due to the current downturn in attendances. We need to modernise the stadium and make the match day experience better, whilst also having an eye on increasing commercial revenue through non football events. With regard to attendances.. I’d still look to increase. 30k would be more than enough for everything Carrow Road could be used for.

Glad I'm not the only one who still thinks something very odd was going on that season

Yep - always have wintry destinations for my holidays between September and March. Been to Trondheim, Rovaniemi, Tallinn and Riga so far with Turku next month. Was in Tromso just before Christmas last year. Rovaniemi was -19 which is my kind of temperature as I don’t like the heat. The Nordic and Baltic countries are lovely at that time of year and particularly festive around this time.

How about those moving to Norwich for Uni? Those relocating to buy their first house whilst still commuting to London? Those now moving from parenting very young kids, who need another outlet in their lives? I hear what you say, even if there is more churn, you cannot rely on "legacy" supporters. That way builds in an inevitable decline.

Oh totally agree that the narrative is managed, how deep that goes I'm not sure, but the Leicester title was the final nail on the coffin for me...

Frankly its all part of the narrative. I am pretty much 100% convinced at this stage that the schedule and some VAR calls are fixed. Or at least they are given to the team at the time to improve the narrative of the league or game at any given time.

Two reasons why my attendance at away games has dropped to about a dozen games a season. 1. Dean Smith. 2. David Wagner.

Some refuse to accept the blindingly obvious. Attendances are down both home and away, because the supporter base in general has lost interest. Everything else, trains, Christmas… etc.. is just noise that club apologists try to spin.

I don't think publicly sharing your plans just ahead of a transfer window opening is a great idea. If he comes out and says "we're urgently looking to address the issue of not having a fit defensive midfielder" isn't a great starting point for transfer negotiations as clubs will hold us over a barrel. Likewise if our reality is that we need to sell somebody in order to rebuild, its not going to be wise to make other teams aware that we need to sell. And if the Americans have rustled together a few dollars to spend without the need to sell, then again it isn't wise to broadcast that. Plus surprise signings are the best ones, where they come out of nowhere.

Yesterday’s game provides us with an excellent opportunity to descend deeper into the rabbit hole for those willing to go a little further… Look at the bit in bold and italics highlighted above. This equation is also applied by coaches to each and every player under their tutelage. To start at the end: here is the answer to ‘why does he play MacClean every week?’ and quite possibly also ‘Why has it taken so long for Sainz to get a start?’ Aah Sainz. Let’s choose him. He didn’t have his best moment yesterday. He might well be prone to such petulance. We must account for that in our calculations of course. We are not just playing the white pieces, we must play the black also. So here’s another mad hatter’s bit of logic for you: A player can simultaneously increase your chances of winning and your chances of losing. Now we are really getting somewhere. Think again about the plusvalenza net equation. Start with what you gain, subtract what you risk or stand to lose, this net number is your plusvalenza analysis of your player (or team, or squad, or match chances). There is art and science here (hence manager’s ‘favourites’…which can of course become a self-fulfilling prophecy..) Now let’s go back to our boy Borja. He can do brilliant attacking things. Dribble dynamically, take players on, shoot from distance, cut inside repeatedly and pick a spot… .….he can also lose it in bad areas, try too much at the wrong time, fail to identify important defensive transitional moments, dangle a leg rather than commit to a good technical block tackle, be too often positionally out of defensive shape, get a cheap yellow….(ahem)… Can you see how he could simultaneously increase your team chances of winning by 20% whilst concurrently increasing your team chances of losing by 30%? Now fans either don’t see this or don’t want to see it. They only care about what he can do. How he could help us score. How he could help us win. This isn’t good enough. Sorry. It is just not the whole picture. Fans are like poor chess players. They are brilliant with their own pieces, though they do not pay the same effort or attention to the coming moves of the opposition. Managers and coaches are also somewhat guilty for creating and fomenting this. They say things like ‘we just play our own game’ or ‘we are just thinking about ourselves’. This is a lie. Some of you won’t like that or will not not want to accept it. Sorry again. There are lots of lies in football. It isn’t quite a lie of course. It is a message for the players. A statement of qualified truth. The players do need to just think about their own games. The instructions that I have given them. However the lie is that this single instruction that I want them to carry out - and focus on to the exclusion of all else - is actually a small part of a hundred cogs that have already been calculated to include all opposition moves and percentages and tactics and weapons and patterns of play. The skill of the manager is to distill it down into single or simple instructions that comfortably fill the mind of the individual player to the exclusion of all else, despite the fact that it is derived from complex calculations that are anything but simple and fit into the far greater whole. MacClean plays every week - for the last four managers with varying approaches, beliefs and styles - because he has one of the best overall plusvalenza equations. He can do everything quite well. He has a will to win. Leadership qualities. He offers some attacking impetus via vertical passing, drive, heading ability, desire to get involved, whilst also being diligent defensively, having a sense of danger, being physical, a hard runner, someone not injured much, spiky but controlled, a good influence on his teammates, likeable…. Don’t forget you must make a team. A unified cohesive unit. Off the field counts too. Social interactions. Psychology figures large. You don’t lose anything by playing MacClean. He is not Buendia. But he doesn’t really cost you anything either. Every week. And he does have some good qualities. This adds to the pot. For free (in plusvalenza terms). Fans want to win. Today. Here and now. This minute. What increases our chances of scoring a goal right now!…is their internal monologue. It’s not enough. By a long way. And coaches don’t think like that. And can’t. Mustn’t….. (Is this making sense….?… Can we go further…?) …except if you have weapons of course…or if you are not trying to be better…or if you are expecting to lose a lot of games anyway…or if the odds are against you anyway….…(what?)…you can manipulate the odds (how?) and play players that do not help the whole but amortize the worst deficiencies of your weapon…specific ‘qualities’ that are designed exclusively in conjunction with something (someone) else. And possibly quite poor by themselves. Not even useful otherwise even… …deeper? Parma

He hasn't had a chance to do much yet. We will see more direction when the transfer window opens I'm sure, both now and in the summer. I'm as frustrated with the last 2 seasons as anyone but give the guy a chance.

The club hasn’t changed but unfortunately the expectations from the fans has

No, we'd be comfortably mid table.

I suggest you take a look at the league tables for numerous examples of clubs that are run in a much worse way than Norwich City.

Do you watch football at all?

Good, it's not just me who notices our inability to tackle anyone, and backing off so the attacking player can have a easy strike at goal.

There was quite a thrill though when you knew you stole one or the rage when your opposition did and you had to debate it down the pub or in the evening. Now var spoils all of that

It's like the Jerome bicycle kick, rule it out it's Norwich we need them to go down

Duncan Forbes!

Could it just be people are feeling the pinch financially?

It wasn't produced by the BBC, they didn't have any 'Editorial Board' input. The main producer was Agatha Christie Productions Limited which is 36% owned by her family and is chaired by her great grandson. They've been responsible for the previous Christmas adaptations of her original stories, her great grandson said recently that they are deliberately adapting the original stories so that they were given a bit of a refresh but they remain true to the original plots.

Totally agree @Creedence Clearwater Couto my graphic just above paints the picture that some may need to see.

Just been looking into this and The Athletic shows that United, being listed on the New York stock exchange, submitted a 241 page filing with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. They expect regulatory approval from SEC within 4 months. They’re also expecting approval under the Premier League’s Owners’ and Directors’ Test within eight weeks. Meanwhile, in NCFC land, the expectation of approval “before the AGM”, which was on the 30 November, has morphed into 12 weeks and counting.

Wouldn’t this be the third time for Mike Walker ?

Not the wurst reply I’ve seen.

I am shocked, shocked I tell you, at the idea that people in football might lie to us fans. Add the argument McLean is worth his place and the defence of football coaches and this post is beyound the pale 😀