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Creative Midfielder

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Creative Midfielder last won the day on July 10

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  1. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    Oh dear, now I'm part of the problem as well - presumably because I don't agree with you either. The big problem is nothing to do with peoples' reaction to 'suggested measures' or at least they wouldn't be if this dysfunctional government (and its two predecessors) had proposed sensible measures which have a reasonable chance of being effective. Instead we get knee-jeck and utterly ineffective measures based on stereotypical prejudices much like your own response, and of course that's before we get onto the fact that the major action that the Tories have actually taken with respect to both our border and internal security for the last 9 years is to massively cut the funding and numbers - the fact that there was a very big public reaction to that made no difference whatsoever to those actions being implemented, so I don't think any thread of your argument holds water. When you also consider that our legal system which allows terrorists out on licence, plus our border, security and police services are all ultimately the responsibility of a Home Office that is so utterly incompetent and uncorncerned with the welfare of British citizens that they've illegally deported many peaceful British citizens, wasted huge police undercover resources infiltrating peaceful protest groups whose views are politically inconvenient, etc, etc etc - then it's hardly surprising that an occasional terrorist slips through the net. The notion that making everyone swear an oath to the Queen (or similar) is going to achieve anything is frankly risible and, as I said originally, a pathetic attempt to deflect responsiblity and blame away from where it quite obviously lies.
  2. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    Not really - we have an act of highly avoidable terrorism and your idea of discourse is to attempt to scapegoat whole sections of the population in a pathetically feeble attempt to deflect blame/responsibility away from where it really lies - our dysfunctional and deceitful government which for reasons that are beyond my understanding you apparently wish to see in office for a further five years of incompetent, chaotic and malign governance.
  3. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    Don't think its anything like as simple as that - 2017 actually showed that Corbyn isn't unelectable but then the last two and half years have shown that he isn't a leader either. Labour would undoubtedly be performing better with, for example, Keir Starmer as leader but it wouldn't alter the fact that Labour as a party are well past their sell by date, just as the Tories are long past theirs. But nevertheless we are still in the postion of having a dysfunctional FPTP system channeling voters into one or other of two useless parties, both stuck in the last century (and that's being very kind to the Tories!) neither of which have got a clue about how to address the massive problems this country faces. But that isn't going to stop maybe 75% of voters voting for one or t'other - what a shambles and what a sad reflection on how far this country's standards have fallen.
  4. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    TBH KG I think Labour's problem is far bigger than that - after all for anyone that has the slightest interest Labour's position is actually pretty straightforward already - they've been sat firmly on the fence for the last three and a half years and they'd like to carry on like that for a good while longer. That seems simple and clear to me but the trouble is its no longer a credible proposition for the voters. That IMO is one of the main reasons why they have passed up the chance to win a historic and hugely important election. The other major reason is that in an even greater piece of stupidity and tactical ineptitude they have refused to work with the other parties. Labour are not fighting this election on Brexit they are fighting it on anti-Tory austerity and as such they have ready made potential partners in virtually every other party contesting the election bar the DUP and the Brexit Company. Their failure to co-operate with the other opposition parties is IMO an act of mind blowing stupidity and will cost them dearly. I'm still hoping that Labour will somehow manage to hang onto enough seats to deliver a hung Parliament but it is looking increasingly unlikely (this huge campaigning machine called Momentum we've heard so much about appears to be up on bricks with the wheels off!). It seems almost inconceivable that the Tories could win another election after nine years of total screw ups and misery, even with all the assistance of their media and propoganda friends but Labour have just gifted it to them without a fight.
  5. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    Wot, no Greens Looks good, though although if Raab clings on it will be another (of many I expect) example of Labour's stupidity in refusing to work with the other parties.
  6. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    That does seem to be the case, which IMO confirms what I've always thought - that many UK voters are profoundly thick (Remain voters included) and don't have the slightest understanding of how our 'democracy' is supposed to work. We are now three years on from a deeply flawed referendum and yet many people appear to feel that we are still bound to implement the result. This is utterly ridiculous. Of course the Lib Dems are not going to form a majority government after this election - but if they stand on a manifesto commitment to scrap Brexit and against all the odds won the election then they would have every right to cancel Brexit. It would be the democratic thing to do because that is the way our system works. I cannot see how anybody can object to this, it's comparable to saying the Tories shouldn't be allowed to campaign for tax cuts, or Labour to return public services to public ownership. If people don't like the policies then they vote for someone else, but if the majority elect a party to government (or of course if 35-40% elect the government which is what always happens under the UK system, no government has ever won a majority of the vote) then they have a mandate (of sorts) for their policies. Mind you, given the shower of sh*t on offer this time around, I'm still hoping that our bizarre FPTP system will deliver another hung Parliament.
  7. I agree with all of that but unfortunately we (maybe like all clubs) have a not insubstantial group of fans who do like to scapegoat a specific player when things aren't going too well and its often quite unrelated to how well that player is actually performing. I'm sure we could all name former players who've quite unfairly been scapegoated when the team is not playing well, usually we seem to stick with one per season even when its obvious that they're not really performing any worse than others in the squad who are mysteriously exempted from the nastiness as they're not the official scapegoat. Criticism as you rightly say is something different altogether, IMO Todd has been on the receiving end of both (from different posters obviously) this season and last. The criticism is fine, the scapegoating definitely isn't - so personally I see it as very positive that at least on this occasion people are pushing back against the stupidity of it.
  8. .......................and not just the brain dead Cantwell critics but the somewhat larger group of brain dead NCFC critics
  9. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    No, I don't think leaving the EU is going to ruin to country because its already ruined! And no, I don't think Labour is going to get in, but you're right that I'm going to be disappointed because whether Boris gets in or we get a hung Parliament then bad as things are now they will get worse. Frankly I've been disappointed in, in fact actually ashamed of, this country for quite a long while now and that isn't going to change in the foreseeable future.
  10. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    I think there is probably something in that but unlike @VW I still see it as a major problem that for the last century we really only have two parties taking Buggins turn at government and an electoral system which pretty effectively locks any other political parties out of gaining any real purchase in Parliament. IMO this has always been a problem, but perhaps it was less of a problem 50 years ago when there was at least some elements of consensus between the parties and the general population. However since then the parties have become more polarised, and also we have been faced with several serious issues which cut across the traditional left\right divide - and this is where the two party system and FPTP elections have completely failed us. So now we have an very right wing authoritarian party facing off against a pretty old fashioned left wing party, fighting propaganda campaigns through the media and internet, scarely ever directly interacting with voters, or indeed serious journalists. I don't believe that either the Tory manifesto or the Labour represent what anything other than a pretty small minority of people actually want or believe in but we can be pretty sure that 70%-80% of voters will vote for one or other anyway and between them they'll win 95% of the seats. It is a total disgrace and quite shameful that we have allowed our democracy to descend to such a farce and the result will be another exceptionally low calibre Parliament. If we had a PR based system then between these two polarised and extreme standpoints there would a spectrum of smaller parties who would more closely represent what most voters actually believe in. No single party would gain a working majority and there would be a coalition which would much more closely represent what people had actually voted for than any of our previous governments (no government since the war has won more than 50% of the popular vote, maybe it was different in the 18th century when only the right people were allowed to vote!). The extremists on either side may win a few seats (and why not if people voted in sufficient numbers for them) but it's highly unlikely they would get anywhere near government - not perfect but a hell of a lot better than what we have now!
  11. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    Precisely, FPTP makes it impossible for such a party to emerge/prosper. Perhaps you should turn the question around and ask yourself why if you think there is such a desire amongst voters for a centrist party it doesn't exist already - its not hard to set up a politcal party/company, even Farage has managed it quite successfully twice. Perhaps it's worth adding that whilst FPTP is the main culprit it isn't the only one, our media (also pretty useless) would either crucify or totally ignore a centrist party so they would be at a huge electoral disavantage - it just isn't going to happen. Nothing is going to change unless Labour somehow wake up and realise that a PR system would actually benefit them but I think they're still mired in 20th century political thinking so I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen.
  12. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    No to both - incompetent, lying, corrupt politicians have already ruined this country but that doesn't mean it can't get worse still as Boris is already demonstrating.
  13. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    Definitely not - FPTP has always polarised our politics and now more so than ever. It is binary and driving the two established parties to extremes. There simply is no centre ground in UK politics any more and the voters are gravitating to one or other of the only two parties that they think can win even though they have both vividly demonstrated how useless and untrustworthy they are. A very dire demonstration of how a sh*t electoral system delivers sh*t parliaments/governments, which if we were honest with ourselves we'd realise has happened in this country on a very regular basis over the last 50 years and looks set to continue.
  14. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    Yes, quite probably so and although there is a clear majority of remain MPs in the Labour Party, there is also a significant group of Leave minded Labour MPs and Labour MPs representing heavily Leave voting constitutencies who felt obliged to support it. Which makes it even more stupid that TM never made any serious attempt to make a deal which they would have definitely backed and given her the majority for Brexit she needed. Customs Union would have done it, maybe even something a little short of that in the final days but she still didn't have the intelligence and/or imagination to make it happen.
  15. Creative Midfielder

    The Brexit Thread

    All of that is true but whilst I don't really want to defend Labour (who have been the poorest opposition in living memory) I don't think they can reasonably be accused for opposition for the sake of it - they did stand on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit but it was a completely different Brexit to Theresa May's hard Brexit and Boris Johnson's even harder Brexit and/or no deal Brexit. So they were fully entitled to oppose the Tory deals (as were the rest of the opposition) but if wasn't for Theresa May being an inflexible half-wit incapable of any compromise then we would be out by now. If she'd comprised over the Customs Union, which would have had the additional benefit of limiting the economic damage a bit, then we would now an ex-member of the EU. Labour may have been pretty useless for the last three years but they can't compete for sheer incompetence against the Tories, who let us not forget are the Government, had bought themselves a working majority and yet still couldn't get anything to work.
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