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Maybe getting the right coach would help the situation. Not one who has just been sacked. Lambert, Neil, Farke all came from potential success not defeat.

Webber's here to hand over to the new guy and to make sure any knowledge that only exists in his own head is passed over to Knapper. It's in everyone's interests for that to happen. There's no rational reason to want to rush Webber out of the door until that has happened.

You more or less answered your own questions Parma. A unique approach was all needlessly thrown away. Now we are back with everyone else in the same old sack race. Its enough to make you weep.

I would add that Webber is a text book agitator. By his own admission he shook things up (got rid of the dïckheads) and referenced the old guard as the incompetents (pïssed it up the wall) even though he sold Maddison , a legacy of the old guard to get the club out of a hole . If we are talking legacy Webber should have left after one of the promotions. His stock was high. Agitators don’t always know themselves. As Webber success grew and he had surrounded himself with his own people and methods he because the old guard. Good people started leaving . Webbers main weapon based on change became defunct . At the end his systems were failing - after another relegation and poor championship performance. Costly Failed managerial appointments and poor transfer windows resulting in debt that the Club is not used to . Webbers singleminded approach warmly welcomed during times of success is now interpreted as arrogance . Webber is emotional . Not media savvy (although he thinks he is). The divorcees comment was horrendous . He has lost his way with the press both local and national (Mashîter) I don't think he wants to be here . He must have woken up this morning wishing he was up a mountain. Wolfie sums it up nicely . Good . Then bad. In terms of legacy , Webber should have left on good.

The notion amongst some fans that Webber came in and transformed the club drives me insane. He has stunk the place out, the club currently feels rotten from top to bottom, and it will probably take many years to recover from his “legacy”. Webber struck gold with Farke, Buendia and Pukki and I will probably cherish those promotion seasons forever. Ultimately though it was Farke who delivered that free-flowing football and feel good factor, not Stuart Webber. When he arrived he was extremely critical of his predecessors, but if you compare all aspects of his and McNally’s time at the club McNally’s achievements far outweigh anything achieved by Webber. Going back to the 2016-2017 season. We had just been relegated from the Premier League, Alex Neil was sacked in March 2017 with us sitting 8th in the Championship. Alan Irvine was appointed caretaker manager, followed by Webber arriving at the start of April 2017. Irvine finished the season reasonably strong guiding us to 8th place finish (10 points off the playoffs). Despite his predecessors apparently dashing our lottery winnings up the wall, Webber still inherited a number of players with a high resale value and/or high potential. In the season he arrived we had already sold Redmond, Brady, and Olsson in multi-million pound deals. In his first full season Howson, Pritchard and Jacob Murphy all departed in multi-million pound deals. Second season Maddison and Josh Murphy. Fourth season Godfrey and Lewis. As of today I’m struggling to see much resale value in the squad at all. Potentially Jonny Rowe (who was also at the club pre-Webber funnily enough) and possibly Gabriel Sara. In his first interview after arriving at Norwich Webber said: “The job in a nutshell will be judged on how good the recruitment is and how good the head coach is, it’s no use the medical department looking fantastic if you recruit the wrong players”. You can blow the shiny new training ground building trumpet all you like, but it’s currently delivering relegation form Championship football. Yes it needed improvement, but it didn’t take a rocket scientist/footballing guru to realise that. Ultimately he’s leaving us with a cr*p manager, a squad full of ageing journeymen, a disjointed fan base, uncertainty from top to bottom, and we look a million miles from the Premier League. I’d give him a solid 1/10, the sooner he departs the better.

I had very low expectations pre-season Morph. All the footballing noise was pretty fearful of a Norwich slide. Wagner employed an unusual model of play that asked a lot of Sargent-Barnes, made considerable structural compromises elsewhere and looked a little open through the Centre. Post Sargent-Barnes it looks horribly open through the Centre, lacking in the ‘good awkwardness’ that Sargent-Barnes brought and retaining and exposing all of the weaknesses that were noted even before they were injured. Pushing full backs forward with slow Centre backs, plus a midfield duo of puppy ball-chasing McClean (he’s got better, though still very sweetly-incorrectly tries to run around correcting everyone else’s mistakes) and Sara (super eye-catching moments, mostly pretty weak positioning, lack of key defensive transitional moment awareness and reasonably regular ‘ambling’), is an obvious recipe for a weak heart Centre (where most of the key goals come from). As a coach I have my ideas about where the key spaces are on the pitch, though I never, never approach a new club or team with a blueprint of how I am going to play. You must look closely at what you have first. Then design. By look closely I also mean learn and understand the psychological tendencies and characters of your players. Know their weaknesses. These will soon show up under pressure. And pressure will come soon enough. Wagner’s team against sunderland looked very much like a managerial-speak ‘look at what I’m (forced to be) working with ‘ It looked horribly weak and callow on paper and worse on grass. The lack of intensity and cohesion in the press at 1-2 down early second half was awful, awful. His post match comments used the word ‘players’ a lot too. That was noted. The dressing room will be even less thrilled now I assure you. One point to note Morph: Barnes has never scored goals like a striker. Sargent - as Greg Downes observed - ‘is not a world beater’. We have a lot of poor players. We’ve hollowed out a horribly over-blown squad of ‘3/4 good’ players, that itself was a terribly flawed strategy perhaps influenced by post-covid injuries. I really don’t get why we had 35 odd senior paid professionals. Have 18 and spend the considerable wages savings on keeping weapons, paying Skipp and-or buying one more weapon. This is the Brentford model that has been recommended throughout my Masterclasses for years. That’s not me being clever, that’s what teams with limited finance and a desire to progress do. Across Europe. Idah is the one. They pinned a lot of on Idah. Did they want to use him or not? Did they believe in him or not? He still looks raw and rather passive in his play. I ‘spose you’d have to play him high, make him run channels, knock people about, get Sara in the 10 behind him, maybe Rowe floating about around there too (no wingers), couple of eights behind them MacClean and Gibbs maybe, though I’d also like Gibbs at CDM - Someone must fill that space at any cost!… There you go…a starter for ten. There isn’t a lot to work with I’m afraid. And they all look like they know it. That’s a bad sign. It’s not going to happen this season, though plenty a team has got relegated playing quite tidy football at times, just not scoring easily and letting goals in too often…… …sound a bit familiar? Parma

Thanks for that.

I think pre-season he'd built a system that suited the starting eleven and ultimately teams found it very hard to counter..but it was fully reliant on an experienced old head like Barnes to know when to drop deep and when to win tactics fouls. It also required someone with the energy and physicality of Sargent. Unfortunately where he's poor for me is changing to suit. Far too slow. Which probably explains why he struggled when injuries happened last season to change things, and again this season.

...and linked with Rangers too I bet Todd can't wait

I was joking. I don't really care what my shares are worth. Other people's money doesn't excite me. I'm not convinced chopping tree from its roots, taking it to the USA and decorating it with dollars is a good thing. It could be but, but in every previous occasion that the tree was sick its roots fed it. Give the club to America today without safeguards and we have no say in where it goes next. It's enough to turn a fan to what made Milwaukee famous... I'll still go though

The trouble with this club is they cannot or will not make a decision. A change in ownership takes 3 years, really? Webber resigns and takes 12 months to leave, really? Wagner turns out to be utterly useless and we can't sack him because no one can make a decision otherthan Webber in who the replacement should be. How the hell have we got into this bloody mess?

Need someone in the middle to control the midfield. Atm the opposition go through it like a hot knife through butter.

Webbers legacy will be one of contempt. The contempt with which he treats the supporters and the contempt we all feel for him. Plus as a parting gift he is leaving his incompetent wife behind and the Club in a critical state.

Anyone can find new owners if the existing owners actually are receptive to it. Delia herself said they went out to see who was interested in Foulgers shares and had immediate interest from four potential American buyers. So sorry but the Webbers being credited with “finding new owners” is ridiculous.

Dortmund under 23 coach whoever he is !

They went earlier on Farke than a huge amount of fans. This making stuff up is a real constant for you.

I mean I could start out being snide and make a joke about how we could have played the tea lady or a linesman in defence and they would probably would have been able to do a better a job than most our defenders have this season but it's already been done to death so instead I'll give some credit where it's due and focus on a positive. Fisher. Only 19 years old, last club he played at was in the Isthmain leauge and the highest divison he had played at prior to joining us was the national league. Got a start away in the Championship at Sunderland with it's big old stadium and loud fans in our team with all the drama and negativity and just got stuck in and got on with things and if you ask me he did do a pretty decent job. That and he really clearly loved getting physical, getting into a battle and a good strong slide tackle too which makes a change as most our defenders right now seem far too scared to try and tackle players and would rather let them just slowly walk to the goal unchallenged. So you know what fair play to Fisher and I do hope he get to see more of him in the future as while he may be young and inexperienced at this level he does seem to be a good lad and if you ask me does seem to have some potential for the future.

A brief strategic history of Norwich time: Attanasio looks for a football club to buy in England ‘for ten years’ Neither Attanasio, nor Norwich connect Norwich employ a new model A sporting Director Positional Play methodology through the club Have to sell Maddison Gets injured in last game Surprise success Buendia-Pukki Promotion Don’t spend money ‘to come back stronger’ Covid losses Lots of Premier losses Historically brilliant promotion Sell best player at point of promotion Don’t replace Skipp Don’t replace Skipp’s role Players unhappy at the broken ‘stronger’ promise Nexus point slide begins Expensive wide squad created High money invested in wingers Tzolis and Rashica, wide striker in Sargent No obvious weapons Farke sacked after 2 months and 10 games More defensive, structured premier nous manager idea employed Positional play methodology through club abandoned Norwich relegated Bright start to Championship Footballing identity unclear Slide to mid-table mediocrity Manager changed Webber-Wagner-Ida-Weaver and others all re-united Michael Foulger sells his shares Attanasio ideal for Norwich as future owner Webber announces resignation (in 1 year) Problem identified as lack of experience, nous, game-management Older experienced players bought in on frees Footballing identity based on 2 strikers A promising start 2 strikers injured Despite experience team loses 7 in 9 Questions on the history: 1. If Attanasio had ‘looked for a club to buy in England for ten years’ why didn’t we connect with him before? 2. If he is perfect now, why wasn’t he perfect before? 3. Did risking Maddison when we really needed rnoney make us risk-averse with players of value later? 4. Why did Skipp’s role - having been so pivotal- become subsequently unnecessary? 5. Who in senior roles understood the fragile vagaries of players’ minds? 6. Did ‘ignoring the noise’ from ex-players (and within the dressing room) work out well? 7. If defensive strength was identified as key to staying up at the top level, why were comparatively huge sums spent on 2 wingers that almost nobody at the top uses because it’s too open? 8. If positional play methodology was developed and operated throughout the club -then abandoned post-Farke- is it the wrong thing to teach young players? 9. If all the best people for the job were all previously employed at Huddersfield, is this an extraordinary coincidence or is Webber’s methodology just a mirror of the ‘old boy’s network’ he originally derided and deleted? 10. If previously the model was buy young, early and forensically in order to blood talent and - eventually - make good profits, how does buying old players on frees and with no resale value fit that model? 11. Are cheap free players, old friends and here-and-now experience a holding pattern to keep us in the league while costs are cut? 12. Has the fans excitement at another new season overshadowed the reality of a massive hollowing out of player quality, funds and expectations? 13. Is the current strategy a holding pattern partly due to the hiatus until new ownership takes the reins? 14. Given the poor current performance is the outgoing Sporting Director in a position to make major decisions? 15. Are the current majority-minority owners in a position to make major decisions? 16. Are Attanasio and Norfolk in a position to make major decisions? 17. Is Knapper fully engaged in the process of making or preparing for major decisions? 18. Who does he report to? 19. Does all of the above imply a coherent Sporting philosophy? 20. Do new owners like a clean slate and an opportunity to be seen to make a dramatic difference? 21. Does this mean that the club is merely trying to tread sporting water for a period? 22. Does such an approach have a good history of success? Parma

Nothing wrong with the TNC boys. Always people moaning about them, if you don't like there content don't watch it. They make a lot more sense than half of this forum

No I'm loving it. Watching folk trying to hold on to old hatreds. Wondering who they'll blame when we win and lose football matches in the future.

Why can't he just go? He's failed, everyone knows he's failed, and almost no one wants him here except for our owners, who don't seem to care a damn about what the fans want any more. Just go, Webber, please. Climb a mountain, get a job at Leeds, get a job with a company selling surgical appliances, we don't care. Just get out of our club so we can start to sort out the utter mess you are leaving behind.

Indeed, I mean it’s going to take 2&1/2 more years of Delia imparting her knowledge to MA, he needs to know how to boil a perfect egg! So it’s the Norwich way, a failing SD who would have been shown the door months ago, must stay to taint the new SD…..Knapper isn’t going to listen to Webber he’s going to impact his own vision here….just lip service by Norwich board!

Carsley and Evatt would be the best of those realistic suggestions, in my opinion. Lots of people are suggesting Wilshere due to Knapper's Arsenal links, but as I said on another thread yesterday, he has never struck me as being the most intelligent or charismatic, and has only been coaching for one year in Arsenal's youth team. I fear he'd be way out of his depth here at this very early stage of his coaching career.

This suggests to me a caretaker manager will takeover, so Pelach or Weaver, then Knapper is involved in the permanent role selection. Let's be honest Webber's last two appointments have been diabolical so he absolutely must not be involved. Webber doesn't need to be here and should be on garden leave forthwith. Adams can do the handover. I really don't want Webber anywhere near Knapper.

What's the difference between a lentil and a chick pea? I've never had a lentil on my face.

Wagner declared last season it wasn’t him, it was the players (mentality). So the likes of Duffy were brought in. Still awful, so if it’s not Wanger and not the players it must be us fans! To be fair, we’ve got form. It was also us under Dean Smith remember? So stop giving Wagner and the players such a hard time and take a look in the mirror! You’re a disgrace, give away your season tickets immediately!

Second goal yesterday was to a large degree Gibsons fault. He often doesn’t make the last mistake leading to a goal concession but he’s often involved somewhere in the chain of incompetence leading up to a goal.

The fundamental issue as I keep saying is that of the forward press not working in combination with two very slow central defenders. Wagner's tactical approach is based on winning the ball back high and early through a boxed four comprising the two strikers and the two wingers. If we don't - as I pointed out pre-season - there is a gaping hole in central midfield. That might be mitigated somewhat (in Wagner's set up) by playing a very high defensive line of the two centre backs and one of the central midfielders until the fullbacks can get back into position, but the fact that both Duffy and Gibson lack any semblance of pace and Kenny is far from a natural defensive midfielder (particularly when he drops in centrally and the CBs are covering the channels) means that we can't play a high line, so unless they can win any initial forward ball they have to resort to backing off. I was critical of this approach before a ball was kicked this season - although I did admit to being impressed as to how effectively Sargent and Barnes had it working early season. The fact that Wagner can't see this and adjust accordingly in their absence - either through personnel or tactical adjustments - is the biggest indictment of his management and the reason why a change has to be made for me. If he is wedded to this system, Warner has to start alongside Duffy, Gibson or Batth (my preference despite the general consensus would be Gibson) and Sara has to play second striker. Personally, with the players available I would go to a conventional 4-2-3-1 with Kenny and Gibbs as a slightly deeper double pivot with Sara at #10. By all means keep the forward press but don't overcommit both fullbacks at the same time.

The levels of delusion in this post.

Yes, and to partly answer Monty's question I think what has changed things is the recent drop in results. The choice of Knapper and his delayed arrival and Webber staying on to help him settle in were decided upon when Wagner was doing well, with no thought of replacing him. If the board are on the verge of sacking Wagner then that leisurely timescale is suddenly nonsensical.

Biggest result is you’ve beaten Cambridgeshire Canary to posting this, I’m sure he’ll find a way to rehash it somehow 😉

I was born under the Barclay Stand, I was born under the Barclay Stand Fans are made forever, managers are made to sack I've never seen a sight that didn't look better looking back I was born under the Barclay Stand Goals can make you cheer a lot, and wins can make you fly Losses can burn your eyes, but only VAR can make you cry Home is made for comin' from, for dreams of goin' to Which with any luck will never come true I was born under the Barclay Stand, I was born under the Barclay Stand Do I know where hell is? Hell is down the road Heaven is beating the scum at Portaloo Road I was born under the Barclay Stand The Barclay, Barclay Stand When we lose our matches, show us a bit of fight, Or I'll begin to boo at all the unremitting sh!te I was born under Barclay Stand The Barclay, Barclay Stand Sorry, a bit negative at the end, but the best I can do at the moment........

I think it’s more of a recognition that Duffy has been worse than Gibson yet some still seem to single out Gibson

Yes, but we've managed one point from our last five games. Even if we win the next two, we still wouldn't be in the playoffs because the teams above us would pick up points. If we do hang on to Wagner (which I hope we don't), I think it's possible we could see an uptick in form after the international break with Sainz ready to start, and Hanley and Barnes back from injury. But it's equally possible we could continue to flounder and get sucked into a relegation battle. On balance, I'd take 13th at the end of the season and concentrate on wholesale change in the summer.

Having spent 4 of the last 7 years in the PL and two more of those seasons getting promoted to the PL? Our worst finish being 8th in the Championship? That position? I’m absolutely amazed at the Jedi mind trick Webbers somehow managed to pull where people believe we were in some long term terrible state before he arrived. What was that about short memories?

Mass streaking

In short, Webber's tenure has been classic gambler's tale. He came in, made lots of small smart bets, won big, then lost a fair bit. He then totally lost his head by trying to chase modest losses and get a gigantic win. He's still up on where he started (mainly infrastructure), but substantially down on where we'd be if he hadn't lost his head to such a significant degree. Webber's situation shares some similarities to that of Chase, albeit the latter's success was a lot more sustained and reached much greater heights. I cannot see Webber being as well respected a generation from now, as Chase is at present. Overall Webber will probably be viewed in years to come as something of a flash in the pan who lost most of what he won without really reaching his potential.

Four great years. Taking a shoestring budget and weaving it into a great football team better than the sum of its parts, with a flourishing academy setup producing homegrown talent to cherish, led by a charismatic and principled manager who must rank among the greatest in this club's history. Then two years overseeing terminal decline by blowing an increased budget on wholly unsuitable players, selling our most irreplaceable asset in Buendia, losing his bottle and sacking his 'X-factor' manager and appointing two awful managers to succeed him, then hiding away when we're failing only to re-emerge with a bizarre passion for mountaineering and divisive rhetoric. In summary: started brilliantly, disappeared up his own backside taking the prosperity of the club with him.

The sole raison d’être of Hamas is to annihilate Israel. Peace talks would achieve nothing of any lasting value. Even if a ceasefire was agreed, it would only be a short time before Hamas restarted their hostilities with the inevitable and justifiable backlash from Israel. Make no mistake, Israel is in a war of survival against terrorists backed by Iran, and it really doesn’t help when useful idiots on the left seem to side with the hate-filled Islamofascists who hate us just as much as they do the Israelis. For its long-term survival, Israel rightly now considers that the complete removal of Hamas is the only sensible option, however unpalatable that might be.

The Argos one offers thee different speed modes too, I think ours only has the one!

The point being that he should be in a no.10...but with someone else behind him alongside McLean to cover those gaps

Should have been sacked when he was saying he would rather be up a mountain than working for us.

Indeed. If I was in charge personally at this point I wouldn’t want Knapper being tainted in association by any of this. Clean slate, Webber and Wagner gone and interim in charge for when Knapper takes over.

Personally I wouldn't or dropped Stacey. His experience would of been needed to mark the best player in the league. Kellen Fisher did well for the most part but got caught out a number of times due to his positional play, albeit it was an encouraging performance from a young player still learning. It was the wrong game to start him in my view but many of Wagners decision baffle me at times

Warnock will go to QPR and move them up the table. This creates a problem in that it is unclear if there is a third worse team than us in tier two.

I am only going on the timeline given by Delia, but even if she has got that wrong I still don’t see the relevance of your question. We are not in debt now because we lack a Bowkett figure able to manage and clear debt. We are in debt because we took a footballing-financial decision to gamble. And there is a significant difference between this current ‘gambling’ debt (which is owed to a director and potential owner) and that in the past that Bowkett dealt with, which in large part was due do borrowing to rebuild the South Stand, and was owed to banks.

If only, they just can’t let go but still some idolise them.