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The connection isn't Norwich or football. It's the DS boys and girls.

Last year the faults were hidden by an offense that could mostly out score opponents. That approach was never going to fly in the Premier League. In all of our last three promotions, failure to address the problem of central defence has proved to be our downfall. There was the Simon Charlton in for Malky McKay year, then the moving Russell Martin to centre half year and now this one. Relegation has been mostly self inflicted.

I was hopeful and thought our style of football might suit the Premier League. I also hoped we would upgrade a very average defence. This didn't happen and from the moment Klose was sidelined and then Hanley and Zimmerman followed, I realised the odds were very much against survival. By the end of November it became obvious we wouldn't.

How many times do people need to be told that its not all about current ability of our young players, it's their potential. It's also the fact that at a big club they'd be around better players. Why do you think all these big clubs are interested? Is every scout in world football over rating them?

Come on lads, cheer up! It’s all a ride. We go up, we go down. Just enjoy the ride. We could be mid-table and boring, imagine how bad that would be. worse things happen at sea, y’know? https://youtu.be/SJUhlRoBL8M

I will always imagine him like that though. 🙃 He was right about so many things. Even the last emails he sent me in 2014 he knew we'd return to the Premier League. I remember him threatening to write a series of articles about this message board and it's inhabitants. Wiz got most upset. I wish he'd done it. Perhaps it could have been serialised for tv. Would be more fun than Midland's soaps and love island.

You utter div. The EU initially offered the border in the Irish Sea to May. She baulked at this and got the EU to compromise. Fatty buffoon boy collapsed quickly and gave the EU what they initially wanted. You've been right royally scammed and you are too idiotic to realise. 🤣

I have to say that whilst I think they have massive potential, I have come to the conclusion that Godfrey and Lewis are actually not great defenders. Yet.

This thread sums up why we shouldn’t buy £20 million pound players, imagine if we’d paid the going rate for Amadou, Roberts and Duda, those moaning about lack of investment would be having a field day moaning about wasting our premiership money! Sometimes you just can’t win, one way or the other!

Why can't I just give up and move on to next year? 6 wins still to come!!! 🍻

They used to be Buck’s Fizz I think, Eddie

It's always a poor PL when we struggle. Wolves are only 8th but seem to be able to beat the European teams they come up against. Next thing it will be a weak championship that we won last year.

Me too. He was the one who could see what happened better than anyone else because his TV was so big.

I think something as gone fundementally wrong behind the scenes. Using hindsight from that Friday night we started the season at Liverpool and; Evidenced by the fact that despite our poor form/results Farke can't/won't turn to Trybull/Leitner/Stepi/Hernandez/Vrancic. Evidenced by the fact that Krul (who hasnt done badly) is still our No.1 despite Farhmann being brought in to be No.1 Evidenced by our most talented player, struggling to get minutes. Evidenced by the fact that Byram is somehow ahead of Lewis at LB. Evidenced by the Roberts and Amadou's loan, cut short. Evidenced by the fact a 42 year old Alex Tettey is the first name on the team sheet and Kenny McClean as a free pass to start everygame. Evidenced by the fact a unknown average German signed in Jan, somhow has been first choice for everygame since, likewide Duda appears to be undropable, despite anything other than a good 45 minutes. Wolves was just all too predictable, some little flashes of powederpuff and quickly dominated by a team in second gear, culminating in 3 soft goals. What I have found particulary frustrating is the 'possesion is key' message, its not. Wolves were ruthless yesterday breaking quick and turning attack to defence in in 2/3 very good passes, whilst we even at 1-0/2-0/3-0 down, we didn't increase our urgency and were happy to retain possesion, trying to move up the pitch nice and slowly.

Of course we can ffffing well win. Win one match and the next match then looks winnable too. They are all winnable.

I actually thought we would be ok and survive. The reality is though that in one of the weakest PL's for years we have massively underperformed our potential, both as individual players and as a team.. Apart from the odd game, and brief periods in other games, we have not consistantly played anywhere near what we are capable of. Players who I thought would make it have not achieved the level of form that their abilty promised. You can argue all day long about money spent, injuries, VAR and luck but at the end of the day it's the performances on the pitch that have let us down and put us where we are. From what I saw yesterday the players have already chucked in the towel. Strange really because with the other results going our way over the weekend there was a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. But not for the first time when the chips are down, apart from the first 10 minutes, we never really turned up. We got promotion by skill, intent, fight, desire and team work but we seem to have left all that behind.

I thought we would do better than we have and maybe finish up around 15th/16th. Certainly thought we’d be well above Sheffield Utd who I had nailed on for bottom. What do I know ? Although we’ve spent virtually nothing on reinforcements I felt that last season’s ‘ feel good ‘ momentum would carry us through. Spending a bit more might have improved things - they couldn’t be much worse - but then look at Villa who’ve pawned all the family silver and hardly set the League alight.

We don't have evidence to prove or disprove that, because it is about what will happen in the future. Some of us are positive that the 'plan' will work, some of us not so much. The 'plan', incidentally, is to keep playing this style of football, replace any players sold with up-and-coming players who will appreciate in quality and value, and then be in a better financial position to compete next time we go up. We're almost universally agreed on here that Farke and Webber should stay, so it's just a case of waiting it out to see what happens next season. Until then it's all conjecture, but admittedly it isn't much fun watching us floundering at the foot of the table, no matter how good the style of football we're trying to play.

All City fans are hoping for a win. It goes without saying . I will be there , and the delightful Mrs Beard will be too. We will both be noisily supporting the team . I have been a fan since 1972. I’m not changing now If you hope for a win , but don’t expect a win , that certainly does not make you any less of a supporter. I don’t expect to beat Leicester on our current form . If we do it will make the evening even better .

At a bigger club they would be around better players - so the big club spends big on an average player they can prop up? i agree being English and having potential bumps up value but I also note not a single actual bid has come in. Most is media and fan speculation on merit- at present- there isn’t much to celebrate. But let’s say you are right - ok fine - turn your claim around - is it good enough for a club our size to fail by playing young players with potential- in a hope to maximise future profit- when they don’t actually perform for us in the present to a high enough standard?

LDC would, of course, agree with you wholeheartedly that it’s still entirely possible that we could win 6 out of the remaining 11 matches, although even if we did it may well still not be enough (7 wins and a draw needed for the mythical 40 point barrier). But the reality is we’re a dead team walking. Results have been consistently abysmal, performances one-dimensional, team confidence now shot to pieces, and a board that seemed to have accepted relegation before the first ball of the season was kicked. Clearly spending money on the squad is no guarantee of success in the Prem, and we all know of the examples where some clubs have come seriously unstuck because of this, but equally not spending is an absolute guarantee of failure. Like it or not, establishing a club in the Prem requires money, and a lot of it. It’s hardly surprising that we are where we are.

He's a coach. Unless your attending training I'd say you've got no idea what he does/doesn't do.

Do they have tablets?

That was the day when I first believed in Farke and his words made me love our club even more.

This idea that we blindly accept stuff is beyond me. Apart from saying something is unacceptable what can we do but accept it. But Jimbo, it's also beyond me how you find this so unacceptable when 18 months ago you wanted to accept we couldn't even compete with the binners.

Martha and the Muffins......

....and about 2 million of those contained the word "bell"

I wouldn’t have time to read it as I’m off to work in an hour.

Take a very long long look at our defensive record over the last two seasons, and absorb the figures. It’s shocking! So what did they learn, what have they learnt, most certainly not how to improve their defending. It isn’t rocket science at all, the table does not lie! I’m with Indy on this one, the fees being bandied about by individual city supporters are not going to happen. Just what club is going to pay 20/30/40 million for Aaron’s, Lewis ( now only in the side due to Byrams injury) and Godfrey, defenders that consistently have learnt little.

Jim, I'm with you on this, but it's worse than you think. The club isn't looking to come back bigger and better. The primary aim is to finance the club over the medium to long term by milking the parachute payments. Go up, spend as little as possible, come down and cop a big parachute windfall, so that the financial advantage gained over most other Championship clubs maximises our chances of going up again, spending as little as possible . . . This is what they have the cheek to call a "self-financing model" and it's what we have to look forward to for the foreseeable future. Some fans buy into it. They blame a season of misery in the top flight on the evils of the Premier League rather than the club's own lack of commitment to staying up. Others know what's going on, and so no doubt do the players. Either way, it's a recipe for demotivation and disillusion.

I certainly hoped, but did not expect anything against high flying Wolves. They are the exactly type of team we would struggle against. Unlikely to trouble the top but a great chance for European stuff next year and they were certainly not going to be easy on us just because they are in a comfortable league position. Leicester however, are in a 'slightly' different position. They are 3rd, with 6 points and much better goal difference to 4th place. No chance of wining the league and 10-11 points (incl goal difference) above the last possible Champions league spot. They could have an off night Friday and we could have our A game on. Who knows.

In my view it would have been better to actually actively try to stay in this league rather than take the risk of attempting to come back bigger and better. I'm really not sure how we achieve that and I worry that the process of going down (and what is to come in the remainder of this season) will take away some of the desire and enthusiasm/drive to do it all again next season. I don't buy this top 26 business. I think it give a get out or an excuse for failure. I think we could have done more this season without taking unacceptable risks. That said, I don't want Webber or Farke to leave. I think both have had disappointing seasons to be honest but I do agree that they give us the best chance of getting back up again (although i'd like to see a defence coach added to the team). Its not their fault that our owners have chosen to impose the limitations they have on the club and I do accept that we are performing at somewhere close to (although not quite at) our ceiling under the current model.

Yes. I went yesterday. The away end was hugely deflated. The atmosphere was rubbish (although that away end at Molineux is awful for atmosphere anyway and the sun was in everyone's eyes plus obviously we played badly after they scored) but the biggest cheer or applause that the team got was basically the players being clapped off at the end of the game after producing a really cr*p performance. Everyone just seems to accept we are getting relegated, many fans openly state they are looking forward to being back in the championship. There is no pressure on anyone to perform. The cult has won, they have completely stripped any notion of ambition from a large proportion of our fan base. We must "be careful what we wish for" or just accept this is all part of Webber's masterplan (first person ever possibly to have a plan to establish a club in the premier league by getting relegated out of it so we can try to get back). Delia must be delighted. She gets her nice cuddly championship club back where anyone who dares criticise is snubbed as a non believer, she and her entourage get to party in a boardroom somewhere every weekend and the club gets to continually pat itself of the back for doing things "the right way."

That’s where the supporters will need to come in on Friday night, Flecky. The Carrow Rd faithful I’d like to think will be in usual great voice, and I hope that in turn helps to get a monkey off Teemu’s back. Restoring confidence and showing that we have not given up on the lads is crucial. Contrary to popular belief, we have played some great games this season and I see no reason why, with strong backing at the fortress, we can’t put in another to *hopefully* turn the tide. I actually think the players will be really fired up to put Wolves right regardless, but hopefully we make it difficult for Leicester ourselves too.

I don't understand why Trybull is being ignored. yes he has the occasional game where he's not on it but generally he's been pretty good and Trybull next to Tettey for me gives us a much better platform to play, especially in away games. Obviously can same the same about how we miss Vrancic and his creativity. Our most fluid performance of late was in the Cup with him playing. I also think we badly miss some pace out wide. Rupp is being hung out to dry by Farke here because he's not done anything that bad and is tidy enough but fans will turn on him soon if he keeps getting picked ahead of Emi or Vrancic. The fact is though that with Duda, Rupp and Todd we are one paced and do not carry enough threat to worry premier league defenders. I would be tempted to play Emi in the Duda role (where I think he always should have been given a go because there is less defensive responsibility) and play Onel wide on Friday. I would also play Vrancic next to Tettey. We have to win. A draw doesn't really do anything for us. More than anything I don't want to keep p**sing off players who will be with us next season and who we will need by playing Duda ahead of them when he is not delivering anything and just strolls about.

If you can't bull about your own team then there is something amiss. We always see things that maybe those with a less of an allegiance fail to. But the classification of our team in terms of those in previous years depends on those making it. In the sixty years I have actively supported this club, we have seen gifted individuals and very good squads. When I first went to matches we had quite a few local lads involved whereas now with the Academy setup, a lad from Scotland who comes through the ranks is seen as one of ours. The current squad probably plays the closest style of football to the top teams from the same era as any from a previous era. We can play like ManCity but our players aren''t as good. But in a way, are fairly characterless. The Saunders team, which no-one would compare in style to todays, had other attributes and certainly some real characters. So while the OP may be right, I don't think they are overrated but maybe just another episode in is achieving some success and expecting it to go on to bigger things.

Thanks for posting that link, Herman. Truly frightening. The Leave national posters were bad enough but those demonstrate just how much on a broader level it was an insidious campaign based on lies and misinformation. There is the fraudulent £350m figure used repeatedly, with non-sequitur 'arguments' about how it is a choice of paying that to Brussels or having flood defences in Yorkshire. A bizarre inference that somehow the EU is responsible for whaling, even though no EU country practises it, with presumably the happy outcome that whaling will stop if the UK leaves. The claim that staying in the EU will destroy the British steel industry and 100,000 jobs when those who work in it believe the actual threat comes from Brexit. And the blatant lie that Turkey is definitely about to join the EU when the reality is that its chances of being accepted as a member anytime soon had already diminished to zero. So no surprise that Brexiters here lied and spread misinformation and disinformation. It reminds me of the poster who claimed Germany was in recession. When it was pointed out (not by me, as it happens) that this simply wasn't true, there being a precise definition of recession and the German economy had not met it, the reply was: 'Perhaps it is not true [that Germany is in recession] in the strict technical definition of the term, but in a moral sense it is.' Quite how an economy can be morally in recession beats me but in general I do think justifying something that way is potentially very useful. One could, for example, call a Brexiter a liar and justify it on the basis that while not true by the strict definition of the word it had a moral truth that rendered it immune to an action for libel, for example.

Yep. I think though we've gone a bit too far in prioritising technique over physicality. Take Amadou for example. He apparently couldn't get in the team as he just wasn't comfortable enough on the ball. However he generally seemed a player who could have brought a level of athleticism and physical play to the table that we couldn't get elsewhere.

I wouldn’t necessarily say massively overrated. People just got a bit carried away last season. We were conceding goals for fun last year - skysports’ tables go back as far as 08/09 and only Wolves in 08/09 conceded over 50 goals (but only 52, so still less than us on 57). No other champion side conceded 50 or more and lots of sides only conceded in the thirties. Potential is all well and good, but is Godfrey as good as Joe Gomez? Nowhere near - same age, Gomez is a back up player at Liverpool. Godfrey isn’t that standard. Godfrey likely to be a rotation/squad player at a lower half prem side. Is Lewis as good as Chilwell (who’s only a year older)? Nowhere near. Those two are 22 now - they might get a bit better but they aren’t teenagers. Will they ever be top half prem players? Not sure. Aarons is a couple of years younger. At a big club, he’d probably get a bit more cover so his defensive weaknesses might not get as exposed as they do here. His attacking ability might see him go on to play at a decent level. Buendia is the only one really though who has looked like a premier league player. Maybe Krul as well (but he’s a bit older!).

The injuries to central defenders killed us. It was always going to be a weakness anyway, & losing Klose, Zimbo & Hanley for long periods of time was terminal, for our confidence as much as anything. I remember watching SheffU last season & thinking they looked physically like a rugby league team. That sheer strength (although not that alone) has stood them in good stead this year. I think a lot of our players have the footballing skills to play for a top 6 side, but they haven't got the muscularity required to go with it. It's a bit of a myth about the Champs. being tougher than the PL. Last season our superior football was able to overcome stronger teams. In the PL they're both stronger & more skilful - that's why they get paid so much. The players are simply the best in the world.

I know this has been touched on in the matchday thread, but we've now gone 4 games on the trot without scoring. Duda & Rupp were brought in to make an instant impact, and that hasn't happened. In addition, picking them regularly seems to be having a negative impact on Buendia, who's only getting minimal game time. Whilst still being one of our most creative players he isn't showing he's maturing as a player, and if anything getting more petulant. Again we were 3-0 before any subs, but the distinct lack of goals for me shows I still feel Buendia should be starting and I can't understand why we're not starting him, Duda & Cantwell as the 3 x attacking and creative midfielders behind Pukki? Thankfully all results went in our favour, but if you can't score you're never going to give yourself a schance of winning a game. So would you prefer Buendia to get a start and play instead of Rupp or Duda, play him alongside Duda with Cantwell, or leave Rupp & Duda in ahead of Buendia, and hope things improve? IMO it's not working with Duda/Rupp starting and we've got to find the best 11 to create and score goals.

Exactly my thoughts, Eddie. Sure, relegation looks the likely outcome unfortunately and has done for a while, if people recognise this but still carry hope then it doesn’t make those people deluded because they’re not saying we’re categorically 100% staying up, contrary to what some may think - they’re simply maintaining some hope that maybe just maybe we can also achieve what other past teams that were seemingly dead and buried at this point of the season have done before. To me, as unlikely as that scenario may look to some, it would equally be factually stupid for any poster to deny that it can and does happen, and personally I wouldn’t betray my club by saying it’s not possible for us either. I’m no turncoat - we have to back the lads, not down tools, to me that attitude’s akin to cheating on a loved one. Ultimately, I think what surprises me the most, is those that have claimed to have 100% accepted relegation several months ago... well... actually hadn’t. Because if they’re still getting upset at us dropping crucial points each weekend then they never really did accept relegation at that point as they’re claiming. They’d never admit it, but they obviously have secretly been thinking a turnaround was or is possible to this day too, whether they admit it or not. I too don’t understand the need to live the horror of relegation day in day out for the majority of the season, when I can live it just the once in May before swiftly turning my attentions to thoughts of winning the Championship next season, should it come to that. Every weekend must be hell when you already ‘know’ you’ve lost next week as well. That really can’t be good for the soul sadly. I was really disappointed today, but already I’m happy again, the Wolves game is behind me and I’m looking forward to Friday nights match under the FCR floodlights with an open mind that our lads may just put in exactly the kind of exciting performance that I know we are very capable of, regardless of what I’ve read today. Football, and the results, are never a constant. A turning point in fortune always has to happen sometime. OTBC!

Bench warming

Strength, power, athleticism. We don't have them.

I know.... THEY MUST ALL BE BINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNERS! FIND THEM AND PUNISH THEM FOR THEIR SINNNNNNNNS! ...or maybe they just don't feel like posting during the week. Possibly they're very busy and the only chance they get to post is when they are watching us play. Could be anyone of probably 45,561 reasons I guess. OR THEY COULD ALL BE BINNNNNNNNNNNERS! Either way, they're not real fans, obviously; got to have at least 1000 posts on here to be that. I mean, it's such a welcoming place, why wouldn't you want to post on here? OTBC

Harsh on Hanley. He was one of about 3 players on the pitch who looked like they gave a ****. He might be limited but at least he cares. (And I am by no means a Hanley fan whatsoever).

the thing to really wrap your noodle round is this is our self funding model making us an unattractive investment opportunity? investors want to get in on the shop floor and build something to increase the value of their investment. A net zero, stable asset like Norwich is going to cost more to get in on, so surely you’ll go elsewhere and buy a club that is in a bit of a state to get more of a bargain?

Thanks for this slim. I posted before that I feared the worst after a similar thread on here. Cam sent me a lovely email after we were relegated in 2014 and we exchanged a few more emails . When he was mentioned on here a few years later I emailed him but got no reply. While he was posting in here he always took part in Rays Funds but would never make the final picks because he said that should be for Norwich fans. Me and Ray always imagined him posting on here late at night while having a single malt. RIP Cam

Honest answer from me - no. Our owner is poor compared to most in the championship, let alone the top league. Like i said, it's not her fault, she's done brilliantly for our club, buts it's the way modern football is. 🤑 OTBC