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This is nowhere near as exciting as Faded's story, but does involve a train. This was the 1981-82 season, with the last game away at Hillsborough. We lost to a last-minute goal and I had to run for the train immediately afterwards, with no idea whether we'd been promoted. Pre internet of course, and I didn't have a radio. It was only when some Gillingham fans got on at Chesterfield that I found out we'd done it.

Terrible that people are trying to be a bit positive about the club isn't it? It's almost like they're Norwich fans.

Double, by the sounds of it

I think there are a number of people who claim benefit as a choice in my recent work role, there always have been. Yet, my overwhelming experience (through a service that supported people who you could certainly say were the furthest from the job market - through (a) informal learning (b) training and skills (c) job search help (d) enterprise coaching (f) post work support ...plus work with numerous employers. Sometimes it worked that people were prepared to go on to training (often the precursor to a job). Actual into work coaching was the easy part. Guess which category the majority fell into? Yes, the first one. It took us a long time to 'settle' some people, to gain skills at socialising, confidence building (won't go into all the methods) and interpersonal skills. We developed many methods and in many settings. The barriers to employment were huge. Some folk couldn't read, spoke poorly, couldn't spell (not great for work that required COSHH adherence - but you could work on anything). Once someone believed in themselves the rest was one great learning curve for them. Their barriers often stemmed from terrible experiences derived from growing up, disfunctional families, drug addiction etc. Some kids would take themselves to school because parents hadn't woken up. I could go through all the barriers but it would take too long. However, it was clear many people without guidance would fall through the net. Sad but true. A life on benefits is no life (and our benefits system is amongst the least generous of many OECD countries). We saw intergenerational worklessness too. Running through families Fecklessness, whatever you want to call it. But, with guidance people could (and can today) be someone else. But they need a path. Like any of us do from time to time. We need someone to be around - when maybe those that should be are not. There is a lot to say about good parenting. Biggest and most important role. Get a solid base and domestic stability and most folk thrive, to go on and do their own thing. I had over 40 years of experience so I understand things quite deeply I would say, .... I would always give anybody time. You never knew when a breakthrough might come. There's a saying about any old sock and fitting a shoe. There are jobs for everybody. We need to support families, struggling families. The 20% if you like. Some can't be helped but the vast majority can. Sort this out and we would be sound as a country. There would be huge benefits in reduced costs to the health service, in education, less criminality and so on. Easy to write. Some people even started up their own businesses though and those were the lovely stories. In our job creation scheme 83% were still in work post scheme (i.e. their roles became permanent or they had enough work experience and confidence). Anyway, a long answer to say I don't subscribe to the scrounger theory. That is just the Tory way of demonising the working man and woman. It often boils down to social class. And that won't change I don't believe. As for anti-immigrant views I can't comment really from experience one way or the other. I sense the answer lies in education. Plus, being open enough to try to understand the other person.

I was planning to but there is now not much point as unfortunately the EFL has not yet cleared me as a fit and proper person to be Attanasio’s new director.

Eddie, I am now in our box at the Albert Hall, and the Moët is flowing!! I will have £1 on everyone’s choice for the Norwich game, and so hope we will win a bundle. I have placed enough to cover the bets in your PayPal.

Munich 93 I had "retired" from attending football by then, but felt I was owed a trip to Europe after what happened in the 80's. Some mates hired a van and left Norfolk on Sunday evening, picking me and another mate up in Brentwood. No seats in the back, we just sat around a big pile of beer cans in the middle We got an early morning ferry to Calais, arriving around an hour before the supermarket opened, so we had a game of football in the car park before buying more beer. I recall having to get on the roof of the store to retrieve the ball at one point. We weren't long out of Calais before getting an inevitable tug from French police. One of our number seemed to speak some passable French, and explained we were headed for Germany. This pleased the coppers no end and we were on our way Unfortunately, our bladders were not all in sync, so we stopped at virtually every service station on the way, for various people to relieve themselves in the holes in the ground that appeared to be toilets. Upon reaching the border, it turned out that the German police were a little less pleased than their French counterparts to see us. Around an hour and a half to get through after a thorough search of the van and accusations of possession of drugs. By the time we got to Munich it was night and the camp site we had been hoping to stay at was shut, so we had to sit in our van until the morning Once there, we were delighted to find the campsite had a vending machine that dispensed lager, so we took advantage of that before getting some rest and heading out later in the day for the match, of which many of you will need no reminder For some reason, I don't recall much about the trip home....

100 Robin Hood pointers leading us to thy hallowed turf. (6,4)

15 April 1989. FA Cup Semi Final versus Everton at Villa Park. My two sons, two of my son's mates and myself got the train up. Forget the game. The train back was delayed and further behind by the time we got to Plymouth where they announced it would be terminating. What??? No mobile phones then. Phoned home and Mrs KG said she would come and get us which was just over an hours drive. Another lad appeared and said he was stuck. He had to get to Truro and could we give him a lift? No problem. Except when Mrs KG turned up it wasn't in our lovely big Renault 25 but her friends XR2. Our car had a dodgy tyre she said and she didn't want to risk it. So off we set, with five lads in the back of this XR2 which were never really more than 2+2. Sparks must have been coming off the back. We got through Trerulefoot which is a notorious accident black spot when we saw the blue lights flashing. He pulled us over and saw these five lads jammed in the back. And it wasn't our car. Long story short, he saw our scarves, was a football fan and let us off.

You had me at 'does involve a train'

I have had quite a few experiences going to away games in the 80s. I suppose one that sticks out is getting a football special to see Norwich play Man City in the FA Cup at Maine Rd. John Bond had left Norwich to manage Man City three months earlier and our first £1M player (was the money used to build the new River End Stand?) Kevin Reeves was leading the line for them. When we arrived in Manchester we were decanted onto a fleet of double decker buses, one reversed into another whilst manoeuvring out of the station yard. Whilst we were being corralled to the ground a police horse stood on my foot. We got absolutely hammered (6-0) and Reeves scored the first goal. On the way home our train stopped at Peterborough station, on the adjacent platform was another football special carrying Ippo fans back from (I think) Shrewsbury. Once the realisation had dawned on both trains, doors flung open and there was a skirmish on the platform, coins were thrown, I will never forget the look on the face of the lone British Transport police officer as our train rolled in and came to a halt, he decided to leg it rather than get caught up in what followed and I do not blame him.........

So seven years after the vote and four years since we left, the argument still rages about immigration. And some of it is so John Bull pathetic it makes me want to weep. Its the usual British moan that our inadequacy and broken society is down to immigrants. Its not our fault. Half the boat people are coming for free handouts we are told. One idiot on QT said they get straight off the beach and go to the benefits office. Funny how most end up on a lifeboat or some other boat and get taken elsewhere than the benefits office. There are a lot of people in this country who have contributed nothing and want handouts. Of course we have to have controlled immigration. But surely the 1.2 million who came in according to the latest figures, were allowed in for a reason. Skills or financial security for instance. If not, then the right wing Government we have had in for the last 13 years have to take the blame. But all they say is, we have to stop the boats. That is a totally different problem.

Attanasio is following the same MO as when he bought out the Brewers in Milwaukee. There he followed a similar acquisition pattern. The Brewers were essentially controlled by one family who held the majority of the shares, but had signalled their intent to relinquish control to someone with more resource behind them. Enter Attanasio who reached an accord with the family, slowly buying up shares in the club as they became available. Then after about three years of shadow boxing, the family agreed to sell all their shares to Attanasio in a friendly takeover. This MO is very much unlike his approach to Corporate business by all accounts. Attanasio is keen not to upset the outgoing owners and those who are close to the club. He is prepared to prove his "honest" credentials and intentions, then complete the takeover once all parties are content. Thereafter however he tends to control things with a vice like grip, as you can no doubt pick up by reading fans views on the Brewers equivalent of this message board. So, there is a method behind why Attanasio has chosen Norwich and why he is following this current protracted takeover. Cynically it reduces the cost of the takeover so works well from his asset management perspective. But he has demonstrated he can take a middling team to be one of the top six performing clubs in a very competitive league. Whether he can repeat this at Norwich remains to be seen, but given the path at the Brewers, it'll be well in to the 2030's before we see the fruits of this.

Local authorities are always the easy target. They are dependent on funding allocations and in the last decade many are having to decide just how to slice up where it's spent - the environment (communal grass cutting? no, cutback... libraries? ...not important - can they be run by volunteers? Training or Skilling?...first on the list to cut......and so on). It's not just Labour or Liberal but Conservative controlled authorities. Social care and children's services are the absolute priorities but still have to operate with huge cuts to management and running costs. Other everyday stuff like street cleaning, parks ... you name it. It dawns on you that the news is a commodity - Ukraine largely off the news to a bigger 'gig' in the middle east. Of course it matters ...but close to home, meanwhile, the long, slow decline in civic life in the UK continues. It's laziness to accept stuff that people like Cleverly says. And that's me being generous. His comment is a drop in the ocean, hardly being worthy of reaction or like BB - well..."we all know any place with "on Tees" can't be a nice place". Our minds seemingly are made up. We haven't been nor even think of being curious about a place after such a comment by a leading politician . We accept it. I used to get similar comments about the nearest city to me. Jools for one is a great example. It's become a music hall joke over the years. Having lived for over 40 years I'm allowed to take off my rose tinted glasses about it (there's a ton of things wrong) but still want to defend against ignorance and insult. So, I guess that's why I'm 100% with the people who live in Stockton (must not forget the 'on Tees' bit !). Easy to live somewhere nice and be dismissive of somewhere not? Maybe a lot of folk couldn't give a f*** ... Just a symptom of a resigned acceptance? Or is it a class thing underneath. I don't know. I suspect a bit of both (and more besides). Until we get an understanding of what places are for, a purpose for each town, each city (whether that be for education, health, electronics etc) and invest heavily and over the long term in supporting them (yeah, tax) and re-skilling our populations then the so-called Brexit dream of doing things for ourselves just might mean something. Taking back control. It won't happen though will it? Far too big forces at play. But there is such a thing as political will. Patrick Grant is one such thinker having developed Community Clothing (he was on Question Time last night). His workers are local and the clothes a bit more expensive - he sources material also from the UK. Successive governments have just forgotten people and prioritised money and the monied people...anyway will stop before this becomes some kind of personal treatise. I know nothing really but do care about stuff said by people who are meant to be running the country in high offices.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/we-can-control-eu-migration-we-just-havent-done-it/

As I’ve often said, D&M’s biggest “crime” is putting too much faith into the executive officers running the Club, without, in my opinion (and that of many others) adequate oversight and governance from independent non-executive directors. We’ve been here before, but now the numbers are so big, falling back on the fans for support (public offerings, ST rebate schemes and bond issues) aren’t likely to cut it.

I suspect we are not really talking about a Ferrari, unless the fans in question are truly delusional. More a case of an Audi on PCP while interest rates are low and precarious employment can be maintained. A club like Norwich can aspire to Top 26, but cannot expect it forever and constantly. That Audi gets older, interest rates rise, the PCP runs to its end, that job gets lost. Sustainability and self funding is possible, but precarious. And as for that Ferrari, it is just an impossible dream.

Now this is the content we have all been waiting to see

Have The Simpsons ever got anything wrong!?

Nice to see Sam get a game at last.

Mark Attanansio is… mysteriously missing…

Mention the Ferrari analogy please.

Thanks for the proof read.

I enjoyed this read and appreciate its eloquence and insight. @Christoph Stiepermann s reply also intrigued and all good comments, thanks, they provoke more thought on this. Fundamentally, I want us to be competitive, ideally progressive too but always on our terms. Sporting terms, not financial ones and yes, that puts us at a disadvantage over many clubs with financial backers. I am proud we tried to buck the trend without the finance and disappointed with the failure to learn lessons and our subsequent recruitment catastrophe but let’s remember, we weren’t far away from succeeding. Does anyone really see Attanasio’s finances making the kind of difference required to bridge the massive gap? I’m not getting that this is the intention of their involvement. To compete on our terms it seems to me that it’s possible, but only with patience, transparency (they need the fans buy in) and quality personnel throughout the organisation. The right professional standards and facilities seem set in place. It needs top drawer scouts, analysts and coaches and when you have them you make sure they don’t want to leave, you keep your Kieran Scott’s….. It needs time to build (the patience), teams with sound defensive structure, athletes, pace and power in most areas….. horses for courses! You don’t sign players that can’t run (Gibson, Duffy etc) for the Championship anymore, use players like McLean as holding midfielders and lightweight defenders like Giannoulis. We need a team that is hard to beat first and foremost! That have a spine (usually decent CDMs for added insurance). By all means offer opportunities to these young players but there’s no need to throw in that we’ll sell them ‘if they succeed, then want to go’, that’s an unnecessary stretch too far in the deal. Opportunity is rare, offering that alone is enough. It’s all idealistic of course but we weren’t far away! We just didn’t learn lessons, we didn’t make CDMs part of the requirements when it was always blatantly obvious they were fundamental…. We didn’t throw in at least a bit of a financial gamble when we got promoted, we let our best scouts and coaches leave without any apparent fight…. It’s been an absolute shambles since we last got promoted, management of the club completely lost its way having got well and truly caught up in that vicious EPL desperation. The EPL money never really got us anywhere did it! So the options seem to remain as ever, try our best with the resources available but learn from the many mistakes, have a long-term strategy for team building, performance and don’t panic in future. No point spending money on players and wages (especially old ones who’ve seen better days) or sacking managers when there’s no one in the house to source the best value. Even with Attanasio, there is no guarantee of improvement on the field.

That isn't the real question - as you yourself said the much smaller number of asylum seekers isn't included in the 700,000 figure. The real question is why is our corrupt and utterly incompetent government which promised to control/significantly reduce immigration are handing out 700,000 visas a year and yet still failing to bring in the skilled immigrants that our economy is desperately short of. Seems crystal clear now that whilst we were EU members FOM delivered far fewer immigrants but with a much better skill mix for the needs of our economy, so this current Tory government created shambles is actually a double whammy. They thought 'stopping the boats' would provide a very convenient distraction from the real problems of their own making but since they've demonstrated utter incompetence in that as well they are going to have to find another yet dead cat from somewhere 😂

Ah yes. Sweeney Todd!

If you enjoy Wordle have a look at Quordle and Quordle Sequence. And Waffle is also very good.

This isn't true and has never been true. We were still capable of controlling who we allowed in under FOM, it was simply easier for the government not to bother.

Nor me - you reckon it is do you? Surprised at the comment - there's another poster who hates Liverpool. Perhaps it's a north-south thing? Where I live has huge socio economic problems - once rich and prosperous (wool) but forging a new identity is / has been a challenge. Barnsley, Oldham, Rochdale, Rotherham, Burnley and so on are all struggling towns. They've all suffered from industrial decline. I feel sure there are many other places in the Midlands and the South too. A recent visit to Sutton in Ashfield was maybe typically another town centre that just felt 'hollowed out'. Trip Advisor link here:https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Tourism-g186380-Stockton_on_Tees_England-Vacations.html The thing is surely all places have good things about them and not so good? There are marvellous places around where I am, culturally, environmentally....and people are honest and decent etc. You could spend a great day out here. I reckon you could in any town. The discussion in parliament was also about child poverty wasn't it? So isn't it a crass statement for a minister to make? At least that's the way I see it. To castigate so blithely is quite an insult to the people who live there... isn't it? Looks like it's something you simply agree with after you've reflected on it, enough on fact to probably agree with Cleverly? Unless you've posted a reply to be controversial? I expect many people, all around the country won't be too bothered either and will have a similar view. There is insufficient care that places are failing. I guess one view is that it's the fault of the people. And that's one of the lines in the sand between left and right. Many folk have left behind their environment. No doubt Cleverly has. There was a feature about him on R4 this week. Lots to admire in a way but as one commentator stated he lacks "the heft" for high office.

No, he’s saying the takeover in Carlisle is happening quickly but the alleged takeover here is not. If I said you are a poster who constantly seeks to find ways of portraying our club in a negative light but @hogesar is a poster who looks for possible reasons why events may not be as negative as you suggest, would you think I am comparing the two of you? Because I very much would be.

According to reports, the largest single group is overseas students. The numbers have rocketed. Why? Because our universities are underfunded so they fund themselves by fees from students from abroad. The government diverts our attention by focusing on boat people.

A guess would be Jools Holland…🤔

They can't be Catholic or they wouldn't steal shoes for fear of the harm to their immortal soles.

Thanks for the justifiable response too.... 1) speaks for itself, think you're right. 2) fans eventually bought into Farke's approach which was quite tedious and frustrating in the early stages - it became clearer that something was being set in motion. Fact is without finance, then a plan is necessary and if communicated and clear, then its got more chance of acceptance... I think most are proud of what Farke (and the club) tried to achieve and in that ideal world, its the best way to achieve in sport. As long as we are looking to be as competitive as possible on a constant basis with a determination to improve the squad in a direction.... not flip flopping between youngsters are the way forward / we need a squad of journeymen (slightly exaggerated I know) but that was the panic call. I'd buy into it as I did the last time. Without money, I'd rather we were patient and built something again. Otherwise, we will exist just like everyone else more by luck than progress. In any event, fans won't buy into the inevitable mid-table (or worse) that seems to be the reasonable expectation right now. 3) I take you point on Kieran Scott being ambitious, and yes, we may not have been able to keep him but we have to try our utmost to do so.... isn't Neil Adams now in a more senior role that didn't exist then. Now, I don't have any idea of the capability of the current scouts or the philosophy behind player selection but it's clearly failed time after time.... for that reason, considerable change in that department should have happened since Scott left and we need to ensure that our recruitment includes being on the look out for the best scouts / analysers and to bring in the best quality available - we have to be ruthless in that. I don't think we have succeeded there at all. Consequently, some of the signings are utter madness. Without money, each signing has to be considered precious with due diligence carried out by quality people who know a player and can associate their output by eye as well as by data. Essentially, this is a key area of the business and we need to be better at it than other clubs! Only then, should we bother spending money on players and wages. The same applies throughout the club though, Buendia being an example. We had to keep him. He was worth £75k / 80k a week for that premier league season (and he deserved it too).... I doubt we offered it though! Players like him make players around him better. 4) It still needs the club to allow the manager freedoms to be brave, to be able to bring through players by offering the experience at the risk / expense of results to a certain extent. Speculate to accumulate, to have the patience of long-term thinking. For example, had we played Gibbs instead of McLean, would he now be better at that CDM role (freeing up McLean to play further forward perhaps), had we played Omobamidele instead of Gibson more often, would he now be more effective for us. My view is very probably yes. Just a few examples and bear in mind, they often don't get to play because the club has been on this bizarre crusade to get back to the Premier League with this inadequate squad. They should have recognised the team was not good enough to achieve the ambition, I did, well before we were even relegated. As we've seen, there has been no plan, just desperation this last two years and the squad has deteriorated as a consequence. I may be a little idealistic here but I still think these general principles are the only way we can progress this without money.

As long as there’s not a new road we’ll be fine

From what I've seen of Ipswich this season, basically at Southampton and Brum, I honestly feel at our absolute best from an attacking perspective they won't get near us. Problem is of course we seldom play at our best and have this habit of conceding 2 goals a game 😫

May as well give it a whirl. On paper this one promises to be livelier than most but Delia’s trusty lieutenants will no doubt swiftly close ranks to stifle any dissension.

You never know he might be in contention for an appearance against the Binners.

As you all know here, people who have stay awake for a long time start to hallucinate and then go mad, looking at that list it's obvious that you're way past that stage.

Has he been jet lagged for the previous 10 games as well?

Feckless lazy white lower class scroungers the lot of them. 🙂

Foreshaw is no great loss

I think Sarge can quickly rediscover his form.. but he’s not back for another 6 weeks yet and by that point I think the game will be up for us in terms of a play off challenge. Barnes has rarely been injured in his career. So might take a while to come back to form.. In any case he didn’t look the same player in the couple of games without Sarge. Those two had chemistry.

Strange how he didn't mention the massive de-industrialisation of these areas compounded by even bigger cuts to local budgets and defunding. Not sure why they try to pin it onto local councils??

This is where we differ, you say the trades might not have looked after long-term interests, where I would say the primary issue was that society in general tried encouraging too many to go to university who may have been better off learning a trade in hindsight, resulting in quite the shortage which then had to be alleviated with ready-made labour as you said. I don't really think the demand is there yet. Agree that more apprenticeships would be a very good starting point but by definition, that's medium to long-term. Something is needed in the shorter term. Apprenticeship starts fall 6% in first quarter of 2022/23 (feweek.co.uk)

The far right were often in power in 20th century - bringing upon their peoples the enormous disasters that that century is well known for. The right like simple solutions, somebody else to blame or scapegoat for complex problems -and not unsurprisingly once in power they find out it all goes awry. We have own lesser examples in Johnson and Brexit - but places like Argentina and even the US have/had their own clowns now. The only people liking this descent into populist madness are the autocrats and the likes of China - sadly being proven right! Easy pickings.

Exactly. How we will pay for it? Not they pay for it. Like that crafty cow with her useless PPE who is now in the Lords.

Are we allowed to mention Man Utd as the distinct opposite and how it can drag endlessly? It’s a scale/situation thing - it’s rather daft to compare us with Carlisle, in their current situation, as it would be to Man U and theirs. They are all different and the point being made is pretty pointless.

This is another one I'm enjoying. #waffle274 2/5 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 🟩⭐🟩⬜🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 🟩⬜🟩⭐🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 🔥 streak: 6 wafflegame.net