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Webber has done an abysmal job over the last couple of years. He did an awful one in the first prem season under Farke too. He has to take a large share of the blame for the state we find our first team squad in. It doesn’t help he appears only answerable to his wife on whom the jury also remains out in terms of ability to steer a happy ship. But I feel it also goes deeper than that. The fanbase is devoid of hope having seen through the “self funding” model and realised just how many opportunities we have wasted to truly grow the club and leave our local rivals trailing. As it is there is a good chance they will be back in the same division next season and they will be the ones with the momentum. Meanwhile our owners even manage to make a takeover a sort of death by 1000 cuts by dragging it out as we screw up a chance to go back up. Really feel we need meaningful change at the very highest level to reignite the fanbase.

A dull and damp start in Norwich this morning but it did hold off long enough to get to the ground in a fairly dry condition. The good fortune ended there however as my season ticket flashed red at the entry gate and the guy said I would have to go round to the ticket office. I said "no mate I don't think so, but I will give them a ring monday", and just walked in. Upon reflection I wonder if the football Gods were trying to tell me something. It was a very scrappy opening ten minutes with neither side able to create anything that looked like a chance. Then Idah got Pukki away but he dallied too long and the ball eventually went to Aarons who jinked into the box and went down under contact. Darren Bond was unmoved but from my position right above it seemed fairly straightforward and Aarons himself seemed incensed with the decision. At the other end the home defence allowed a free header from a corner but thankfully it drifted wide of Gunn's right post. There was little else regarding goalmouth incident until City almost pulled off a corner routine of their own with Pukki coming off the far post and laying a ball to Marquinos but the final execution was lacking and the ball flew over the bar. From then things started to get a bit fiesty with the ref allowing far too much contact to go unpunished in my opinion. Just after the half hour there was a scuffle in front of the main stand and a City player finished up over the advertising hoardings followed by a load of general argey bargey. At that stage it seemed unlikely we would finish the match without at least one red card as Mr Bond failed to stamp any real authority on the game. Coming up to the break it was the visitors who looked slightly more likely to break the deadlock as the home defence was again caught out from a corner and another free header crashed against the City bar and was scrambled away. The halftime shoot out between the Zorb's was probably more exciting than anything I had seen during the first forty five minutes and the by now, constant heavy rain promised a very wet ride home. Things didn't much improve in the opening minutes of the second period but City did final test the keeper when Marquinos cross- shot was beaten away by the Blades keeper and Pukki couldn't quite get on the end of the loose ball. The game was certainly physical and any time a player looked like getting clear they were tripped or tugged back. I know its easy to blame the officials but I felt they were especially poor today and it was fitting that when a goal came it would be from an officiating error. Just after the hour mark the visitors came forward and after a series of missed tackles and untidy play the ball found its way across goal to McAtee who looked clearly offside. I was amazed when the flag wasn't raised and a whole possee of City players pursued the ref and lino to no avail. I haven't seen any replays on TV yet but it looked clear to me. Tzolis and Kamara came on for Pukki and Idah but it didn't change the flow of a drab game where chances were few and goalmouth incident almost non existant. In all honesty United had looked slightly mored dangerous and with a quarter hour left a Billy sharp effort came back off the angle of post and bar but yet again there appeared to be a clear offside in the move that wasn't flagged. Josh Sargent, who had put in plenty of effort all afternoon started and almost ended a decent move but couldn't keep his shot down when the ball came in to him and that was about sum total of anything resembling a goal bound effort that I saw all afternoon. I hear that Marquinos did test the keeper in time added but my great grandson was cold and I agreed when he suggested an early exit as time ticked up to ninety minutes. This was probably the least memorable game I've seen so far in what is fast becoming a season to forget. We have seldom looked more than average all season and this was a game when being avaerage was never going to be enough. I should have paid attention when my season ticket failed the entry test and gone home there and then. MOM, the linesman on the Main stand side. Without him they could have played until next Pancake day without seeing a goal.

No but I think it's OK to expect us to actually be competitive. This is what I think you sometimes miss about those premier league seasons. Yes teams get relegated. But they don't **** their pants in public the way we did in those seasons. There is nothing acceptable about successive Premier League seasons where we've finished with 6th and 7th lowest point totals in League history and isn't entitled to say that.

I would hope that there is some money available this summer and that Webber is just being coy, trying to downplay expectations and the deflate the asking price of clubs we try to buy from. He said similar last summer and we spent about 15m in total on Sara and Nunez plus loan fees for Hayden and Ramsay and that was while only selling Lees-Melou for a small fee. We have whatever was going on with the shares and parachute payment loans (goes totally over my head to be honest) plus the potential departures of Aarons and a few OOC's that should give us something to play with this summer. So I think we should be able to do a rebuild albeit with lots of cheap gambles again. Nobody really knows though but my gut feeling is that we're at the end of a cycle and unless we perform another miracle and uncover another Pukki-Buendia combination we're looking at an extended stay in the Championship over the next few years. I'm not worried about relegation though, we're really not that much of a shambles compared to other clubs (for now and in the near future) but my instinct tells me we're not going to be going up automatically again any time soon.

Jim, you have no idea why the takeover by Attanasio – if there is indeed going to be one – hasn’t happened yet, and so no idea who, if anybody, is to blame. I would point out that it took Kroenke years to complete his takeover of Arsenal. And you have no idea whether anyone else has been turned down, let alone anyone richer than Attanasio, leaving aside the obvious point that richer doesn’t not necessarily equate to better. You don’t help your argument by throwing in unsubstantiated allegations. Moving on, no, there is not a deep-seated malaise at Norwich City. I can think of a few clubs where that is true, in the sense of being a long-running basket-case. Clubs that have had a revolving door of owners, and/or multiple close shaves with financial fair play, or even breaches of it, and/or gigantic debts. Everton, Derby County and Sheffield Wednesday just to name three. Norwich City, by significant contrast, has tried to live within the means of its pauper owners. That was an admirable aim and hardly indicative of any malaise. And the owners have come to the obvious conclusion that this model is no longer feasible. That someone with deeper pockets is needed. You can argue, with a fair bit of justification, that this is a belated realisation. That naivety kept the club back and the switch should have been made earlier. And has now been forced on the owners. But that is to assume there was someone with deeper pockets who was also the right person some time ago. If the owners hadn’t decided to make the change, which has already included changes in the boardroom, and the likelihood of more to come, that that would indicate a malaise. You can argue, also with a fair bit of justification, that there have been mistakes in the transfer market. I would agree, while in a partial defence of Webber say that the limited budget, the post-Brexit restrictions on just the kind of player we used to sign, and the conflicting aims of trying to stay in the Premier League and developing young talent all make his task hard. And even clubs with massive budgets and the pick of the world’s best players frequently get it wrong. But again that is hardly a sign that the club is rotten to the core. Only that mistakes get made. None of this is to excuse this season’s presumptive failure to finish in the top six, or particularly recent performances, exemplified by the toothless and nondescript football that was on offer yesterday, from a team that looked as if it was playing in invisible zorb balloons. Fans are right to be angry about the low level of entertainment. I was going to say the zorb game at half-time was more entertaining than the match proper, but I see Ricardo beat me to it. It was a thoroughly dispiriting afternoon, but par for the recent course.

I agree with that in spirit, and if Webber had come out in October 2021 and said "we have the best possible coach here at NCFC and we're going to back him even if we go down again this season," I would have supported that, against the wide accusations of 'no ambition' that would have ensued, on here, from the trolls at TalkSport, and everywhere in between. It would have been the ultimate in 'ignoring the noise'. But, given the catastrophic transfer window that summer, we would have probably gone down without even a whimper, and I think we would have struggled to impose ourselves on the Championship this season. I think it would have got harder and harder for Webber to stick with Farke in those circumstances. And even if we had stuck with him and won the Championship again, he'd have been starting a third PL season with two failures behind him - the pressure would have been on right from the start. I think there's an attractive tendency in football to remember people's qualities and forget their failings. We remember the glorious Farkeball football in the Champs and are already forgetting how dismal we were without the ball in the PL, how often, especially away from home, we were just cannon fodder for teams as average as Palace or West Ham. I think what Webber realised was that Farke's Man City-lite approach was never going to work on our budget in the PL. But we just didn't have the players to play a more pragmatic style, so I think Webber was caught between two strategies. Given that we couldn't become Dyche-era Burnley overnight, you might be right that we would have been better off sticking to Farkeball (or finding a successor to DF who could have made it more defensively solid), rather than flailing about with whatever it was Smith was trying to do. But I suspect that without Emi and Skipp (or viable successors in those positions) we were doomed whatever decision was made about the coach. That has to come down to Webber in the end, and I totally get why people are angry with him. It looks like his time here is going to end in failure, despite getting pretty close to success along the way. But I find it hard to get too upset with him personally. The bottom line is that doing what we tried to do on our budget is bloody hard. The fact that Brentford have done it makes it seem as though we should have, but I think their achievement is exceptional, rather than ours being an egregious failure. We got close, blew it and never recovered, basically. This has become a bit of a rambling reply as I try to work out what I think. But in the end, when you say I share that feeling emotionally - it would have been great if Daniel had stayed and begun to build another great Farkeball team - but I also have a strong feeling that it would have ended in tears, and acrimony that he wouldn't have deserved, and which would have broken my heart a little bit.

I've been going to France for 20 years (more) and not once have I experienced problems by any French customs "at the borders". What kinds of petty hassle? I've gone by plane, car and train. Regularly. "The French will always be the French regardless"...hmmm. What does that actually mean? Honestly, I cannot take this seriously. It's not a great point and you're normally more balanced than that. It does little to convince me that Brexit wasn't about 'foreigners'. French people like the English very much. Completely my experience. The French want people from the UK to travel there, to be tourists, to spend in their economy. The rules about passports and checks were part of the oven ready best ever deal Johnson and Frost crowed about. As was the rule about spending only so long in France before a declaration has to be made (the 90/180 rule).

Will you please stop hitting out at the fans. Webber is on record as saying the target is for Norwich City to be a "Top 26" team. Failure to reach the play offs will be a failure to hit his self imposed target. We have been garbage this season, the squad is inferior to previous squads. On a personal level I do not feel I should be tagged as "entitled" based on the absolute garbage I have seem served up at CR this season it is ****ing heartbreaking for me as a fan to see the direction Webber and Co has taken the club in. We have had some undeniably great times under the Delia regime but the sad fact is when she finally steps aside she will leave the club in a worse position than when she took over...............

for me, Marquinhos spent most of yesterdays match hiding

Six games to go and I'd like to see us try players who are likely the future of this club. We aren't going to make the play-offs and even if a miracle did occur we'd never win them, and why would we want to go up anyway. We'd be mauled to death! With the players we have available atm, so for rest of the season I'd like us to see more of the following Omo and Tompkinson in defence. Gibbs to partner Mclean as two defensive/holding midfielders. Not really sure if Sorenson will ever make midfield his own Sara pushed up into No.10, with Tzolis & Marquinhos out wide (it would be Onel but he's injured and we have no other choices unless we can get Rowe playing again) Sargent up front on his own. Sorry Pukki but your time has come and gone, and under two managers combining Sarg/Pukki & now Idah hasn't worked. Shame we still can't loan Idah out for rest of season. We have nothing to lose now, and not much to gain, but would give a chance to those likely to be here next season and blood the youngsters, best of the new batch into the squad to give them a chance. Lets face it, we've just about reached holiday season!

Might be in 6 weeks time

That’s somewhat unfair - whoever is doing those tweets clearly has it in for him. Imo the guy definitely caught his foot, he made the most of it but it wouldn’t be enough for a pen. The embarrassing thing is to single him out for something every pro does all the time.

The main negative for me is that Stuart Webber is still here.

No, apparently Idah isgoing to be. Ask Mr LiM

I Have to agree - throwing managers at the problem, because we've previously been spoiled in this league is not the answer. I'm fully behind Wagner. I also agree on the Farke situation, although I want to add something - I hope he comes back one day. Maybe I'm day dreaming.

Surely a club with the limited resources of NCFC attempting to play with the big boys is best served by building an identity around a manager who has a built a style backed up with results in the way Daniel Farke did at Carrow Road. Continuity, stability, direction. I was not thinking a Dario Gradi/Crewe situation, when at one time I was envisaging him to be at the club for a long time; ten years or so, through thick and thin. It seemed a two-way fit. We all get swayed by results and performances at the time, but with hindsight being a wonderful thing, I am now more regretful of the sacking than I was at the time. I even forgive him for his perceived intransigence over Cantwell, Tzolis and others as probably, in hindsight again, being justified. We have continuously gone downhill since the day Daniel Farke was unceremoniously shown the door. I now resent Stuart Webber acting like a "Billy Big ****" and swinging the axe on a man who clearly knows much, much more about the game than he ever will. A man whose approach to the job was not tainted by the mercenary image that he as Sporting Director, or whatever, continually portrays. I wonder how many of us now regret the sacking of DF and want Webber out of Carrow Road now?

Or dear. Back to myths. I've always liked the phrase that if the British didn't have the French and the French the British they'd have to invent each other.

Three whole threads on it. Blimey, and people tell me off for posting things unrelated to Norwich..

Farke was never going to stay. If he hadn't gone when he did he'd have gone before the end of that season. There was no patience left. Part of me is glad it happened when it did. I'd have hated another successful manager to have gone through what Worthy went through. But now he's gone and Smith is gone it's a shame there's no patience. A lot of posters on here would have our revolving door spinning faster than Watford's.

We will do what we always do, decide things at the ballot box after hearing what the parties have to say. Much of it will be hopeful waffle that eventually gets thrown off course by the adverse winds of financial reality. I believe most politicians have good intentions but as the old saying goes, the road to hell is paved with those. Governments are like football managers, they all run out of road in the end but sometimes you get a new manager bounce. Somehow I don't see Starmer as Daniel Farke.

Webber (perhaps correctly) saw that we simply couldn't survive in the Premier League playing a neat-passing game with the finances we had avalible to recruit the necessary talent. So Farke's 2nd season in the EPL, Webber tried to recruit a more pragmatic style of player which led to Farke's sacking and Smith's appointment. It was worth a try but spectaculary failed on many fronts. As a result we now have a completely mixed squad of 'passing' style footballers and more 'pragmatic' style footballers which has led us to our current problems where there is neither one nor the other. We can't play possession based as we don't have the No.10 to create and we can't play pragmatic whilst we play Pukki (and the crowd want to see the former rather than later style in any case). It's a real problem. Financially, we cannot survive in the EPL playing possession-based, we simply can't afford to recruit the players to do so on our budget. Therefore, the only way to try and stay up is to play Brentford-esque, for that we need a focal point and target man ala a Grant Holt or Ivan Toney.

Indeed! Privileged b*stards! Some of the hollering from the crowd yesterday was nothing short of disgusting: "Do you mind awfully if one of you has a shot on target please? Much obliged." "Can one please try not to lose control of the football when under no pressure? So very kind, thank you." "Maximilian my dear boy; can you please stay on your two feet. Down with that sort of thing. Apologies for any offensive given." The noise of the blankets being re-positioned in the Geoffrey Watling as well as the audible tutting from the Barclay was so out of order. OTBC

They also significantly improve their infrastructure and grow the club in the way we haven’t. Ok Brentford we’re starting from a lower base so that initial growth is easier to do but they have built which means they will never return to bring that little lower league side who got 8,000 crowds that they were not that long ago. Yes we’ve improved our training ground but so have most clubs in the top two divisions. Our facilities are not unique. What we have not done is built a squad and increased our ground capacity so that both are at a level that allow us to compete long term.

Football has always been cyclical. You can bet the minute Pep says he has had enough at City, they will go into decline. Liverpool may already have hit that point. Chelsea seem to have done so too. None of the players, other than perhaps Marquinhos have been brought in by Wagner. Let him bring his style of player in this summer and then judge. Its also fair to say the injuries to Dowell and Onel have not helped as both were on fire in Wagner's first few weeks here.

Depends on if you're looking at the table upside down or not 😉

Pukki is our best player by a country mile.Only player who looks like he cares.Making runs,holding up ball and trying to make things happen. Problem being,the rest around him are not fit for purpose. When he leaves,and he will,probably to someone like Sheff. Utd,we have to replace him. Good luck with that.

Things soon change in football which if you've been following Norwich for more than longer than a decade you'd of seen. I agree we are at a crossroads and after the early optimism over Wagner, recent performances especially yesterdays clueless attacking square pegs in round holes Dean Smithesque performance I'm not so sure about him. I've said many times in the past that 3 of the best players we've seen here in the last 20 years messrs Hoolahan, Russell Martin and Grant Holt cost £1M combined and were lower League journeymen when we signed them. - The point is even without money with the right recruitment and a manager playing the them to their strengths you can still achieve success without splashing the huge wads of cash out! - EG - Luton Town at present!

In the beginning, like most, I went with my family. Particularly my grandfather and father, I have memories of sitting in the old south stand and the dirty old toilets with the sticky black step (my grandad refused to sit in the Barclay after he was nearly killed in a crush caused by away fans. I think he said was man United I guess would have been in the 60’s? I’m sure someone on here will remember it ) It was family social time. After they got too old to go I stopped for a while at the end of the 90’s. When I got the urge to go again I got my ticket in an area of the ground I didn’t know anyone, so I was only really going to watch the game and leave. Over the years those people around me became friends and made me turn up to games even when I wasn’t too in love with the club. So yeah it’s most certainly a social even even if it doesn’t start out with the intention to be one.

Ahem, glad people are finally catching up. I could do a @Buh here, (okay i will), but i've said for a couple of years the lack of appropriate governance will bite us eventually, i said our most recent financial statements were an unpleasant and scary shock, and the video from Richens highlighted how out of control things had got. Not irredeemable, but unless there is a root and branch change this summer, boy are things going to be difficult. Prove me wrong guys...

Sporting won so 5/5 overnight for @sonyc

Kamara out.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. In my opinion the crucial missing link is the midfield area. Sara looked extremely good at number 10 but we're absolutely missing Dowell playing far deeper and narrower than anyone else who's played on the right since his injury. We're playing strikers as midfielders. None of them have a clue how to play a decent through ball. None operate between the lines. None have the creativity or vision we need. Pukki is our number one asset. Idah and Sargent should only be backup, on the bench. We need actual midfielders playing in midfield. Gibbs, Nunez and Sorensen would do far better, but it's ultimately down to squad management. We've let Stiepermann, Vrancic, Buendia and Cantwell go but not really replaced them. And don't get me started on the CDM position... Kenny works hard, but lacks the ability on the ball to start attacks and progress the ball in attacking transitions. Basically I'm only happy when we play 4-2-3-1 with Pukki as a lone striker. I want to see a proper double pivot with Sara at number 10.

I don't think he's quite in yet - maybe just the tip. More penetration needed. OTBC

There are so many variables at the mo it's almost impossible to say. Do we even have a transfer kitty for the Summer without selling what 'decent' players we have? Will Attanasio have cemented his control of the club further by then or have decided he doesn't like what he sees and **** off back to Yanktown? Is Wagner a busted flush? Will we ever see a defensive midfielder play in the yellow and green again? I must commend you on your use of a semi colon; I salute you sir! OTBC

So your summary is next season we could get promoted, stay in the division or get relegated. I will defend you against anyone who doesn't think you're a visionary.

I will read. Thanks. And swap you for that LSE piece. Age, class and inequality (wealth) were dominant factors. https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/brexit-inequality-and-the-demographic-divide/ Age was the biggest variable. A few other studies provide good evidence of the vote. One link here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/520954/brexit-votes-by-age/

Anyone can see that we have reached the end of a chapter. Many players have achieved all they will hear and need moving on. The current owners are very old now and have nothing much left to give - save handing over the reigns. The sporting director took us on one hell of an adventure but we are now back at square one. Needing a rebuild with little in the coffers. Ground hog day. What happens next do you think? The dice will roll this summer (we are not going up even if we make the playoffs. Which we won’t) 1) 2 season rebuild and promotion again 2) straight up next season 3) languish for a decade in the champs 4) relegated within two seasons ownership and money will play a part. Which do you see happening?

You're probably right there in a broader respect. Yet, I don't think about the EU 24/7 - indeed I'm completely reconciled to the fact we are no longer part of it. It is the reality. I maybe don't like that but I can't change it. What I haven't easily reconciled myself to however is the dishonesty in the range of argument. People paint each corner the way they wish but I had hoped by now that even Brexiters who got their wish might have just acknowledged - yes, it was handled badly and it's not great. Or that it wasn't what they expected. Etc etc. That is my beef if I have one. And I'm not one for calling you names or being personal to you Ricardo. And never have. You've explained your position before. It's that some things are just not in good faith. As for this whole subject I may just leave this alone. I'm as frustrated as ever by it (as you may be) and I won't get my wish (of either side even giving an inch or agreeing even on principle on stuff). I don't think it's going to happen. Human nature I suppose and the very nature of Brexit itself. As I've stated before it has played deeply into the psyche of the nation. Like no other issue (maybe immigration?). Certainly it isn't as black and white as a left and right thing. Possibly it's generational though (that LSE study I posted thoroughly explored the demographics). Maybe you'll not even accept that either. Culturally I'm talking about musicians, artists and their limitations. I am one of that group and could tell you a lot more. But maybe in time it will improve. Some have lost livelihoods. Not just fishermen and farmers or SMEs who exported. The world will coalesce again. Life has to move on. I'm beaten down with the talk and general nastiness of it all. The narrow mindedness and abuse (by some) and don't wish to lose more minutes. I haven't been able to influence you in my recent posts or make a point that can even be accepted as having any value so what's the point here? But I'm a fair person and will still look forward to your games reports.

Not at all Sheff. And if you truly think that dropping Kenny would see this team winning in the champs and competitive in the Prem then I'll drink a couple of what you drink before I go next Monday...

Anyone watched Being: Liverpool? it's a bts documentry about Liverpool when Rodgers took over. He's got a bit of David Brent about him and some of the stuff he says to the players is really cringe and would embarrass Steve Bleasedale. I think he's a bit of a charlatan to be honest and will get found out in his next job. He had incredible players to work with at Leicester and while he did good work at Swansea so did a lot of managers in that era back when they were a proto-Brentford and could do no wrong in the transfer market.

May be, but we've had two managers since, and it still looks like ending in tears. With hindsight (yes) I would have preferred failure under Farke as I do not think that, in a million years that the rubbish served up this season by those two managers, would have been possible under him. Even with a Farke failure to even reach the play-offs, I feel the future would seem less bleak. Just how to apportion the blame for our rapid decline accurately between lack of resources/Webber/coaching is probably impossible. But the manager gets the smallest share in my book.

Wouldn’t want him near Carrow Rd. Far too high opinion of himself and no loyalty whatsoever. When he arrived at Celtic he was wanging on about how he’d found his dream job, etc, etc then shortly afterwards f*cked off out the back door to Leicester. No thanks.

It's pathetic isn't it. They voted for a hard border, got what they wanted and now whinge because the border is rock solid. They actually cheered at the demise of Freedom of Movement. They still haven't realised it was their right too and they cheaply threw it away.

Rotten luck there Sonyc . It’s maddening ! Well done dj11 , difficult game to get anything out of.

Yes he was and maybe you could describe what sensible football people look and sound like ? You know hoggy i thought you were mellowing from your fan bashing persona on here but it appears not.

Bravermann spraying red meat around this morning. Dreadful nazi.

Well get the tip out!

Too many influential people at the Club are too comfortable. Mediocrity is becoming accepted in many areas. A ‘90%’ commitment attitude tends to result in such.

Try reading. The post isn’t predicting at all- it is asking a question; what immediate future do people think most likely. It was setting up a debate not answering the question posed.