Buendia to Arsenal for reported £40m

[Duncan Edwards 2,236]

I think it’s all about what Emi wants.

Would Arsenal be a step up? Of course. But is it a step he’d want to take? I’m of no doubt that he’s a player that is elite level. By that, I mean he is capable and talented enough to play for Champions League sides. 
 

Arsenal? Stepping stone. Again. 
 

If a massive club come in for him then he goes, I’m not talking Lewis to Newcastle or Godfrey to Everton, I mean a BIG club. He’s that good. 
 

Of course, we’ll have a figure in mind but I expect that it’s huge. More than Maddison, more than Godfrey. If it isn’t met, I’d expect us to offer him a huge contract, the biggest in our history to keep him for one more year. Enough to secure his family for life and long enough that should someone come in for him that it secures the future of our club for a while. 
 

Of course he will leave eventually. He’s the best player I’ve ever seen play for the club. But if we got £25m for Godfrey he isn’t leaving for less than double that, COVID or not. 

He says. Praying. 
 

The one thing that I cling to is that Webber, Farke and even Delia know how valuable he is. Not just monetarily but to our side on the pitch. If we do sell, this will be Webber’s biggest challenge yet because I don’t see how you replace him. I just don’t. 

 

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

Interesting to see that none of the Norwich journos have really had anything to say on this.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

1 hour ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I don’t see how you replace him

This is the issue. Arsenal could give us £100m but how do we replace him?

We can’t attract a player at a similar level to Emi (he’s that good already) and so investing in a youngster, as great as the model is, isn’t the immediate impact we need for the upcoming season.

Surviving in the PL will be difficult enough with Emi. I’m struggling to see it happen without him (and I believe Farke is the best manager we’ve ever had)

[Uncle Fred 526]

7 pages of drivel and counting 

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

They didn't have a covid black hole in their accounts back then.

Thought we were covered when selling Godfrey and Lewis?

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

3 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

The one thing that I cling to is that Webber, Farke and even Delia know how valuable he is. Not just monetarily but to our side on the pitch. If we do sell, this will be Webber’s biggest challenge yet because I don’t see how you replace him. I just don’t. 

 

I think the answer to how you replace Emi is quite simply not to try. We will just have to change the way we play. 

The other problem is that if we do sell him we lose a lot of Pukki's goals as well. Most of those are down to his understanding with Emi. That probably works both ways as anyone who signs Emi needs a Pukki to get the best out of him. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

3 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I don’t see how you replace him. I just don’t. 

This was said about Maddison. Yet we still did it.

No player is bigger than the team. This seems to have been forgotten by some.

[Jersey Canary 143]

19 hours ago, Wrathofthefarkely said:

If its 40 million up front, no stupid addons or payments, AND webber gets all of it to spend, then fine. 

If not, we have given up before a ball has been kicked. Without buendia, or a couple of significant replacements, we don't stand a chance. 

We should always go for a 25% sell on for all our players. It gives the club some cash flow in the future when the club night really need it. 

[Jersey Canary 143]

How about asking for Willock in return? He’s 6ft 1, a midfielder who scored goals. Ticks just about all the boxes Norwich are looking to improve on. Wages might be a stumbling block but again if he has a good full season in the PL I’m sure we’d flog him on in 12 months time for a handsome profit. 

[DraytonBoy 151]

I can't see any major transfers happening until after the Euros/Copa America which both start in just three weeks time.

Arsenal will spend big over the summer but will have to sell at the same time, Willock will cost around £20 million which I would think is more than City would want to pay, Nketiah needs game time so I can't see him being happy to be a sub for Pukki. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,558]

1 hour ago, DraytonBoy said:

I can't see any major transfers happening until after the Euros/Copa America which both start in just three weeks time.

Arsenal will spend big over the summer but will have to sell at the same time, Willock will cost around £20 million which I would think is more than City would want to pay, Nketiah needs game time so I can't see him being happy to be a sub for Pukki. 

I hope for Norwich’s sake that if Arsenal are interested they move before the Copa America. The final is scheduled for 11 July - would be a major disruption for Norwich’s preseason if Emi’s future is uncertain throughout July and would run the risk that any replacement isn’t signed by the time the season starts. 

Can’t see Norwich getting involved in any part-exchange deals with Arsenal. Much more value to be had outside of England. 

[birchfest 397]

9 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

I hope for Norwich’s sake that if Arsenal are interested they move before the Copa America. The final is scheduled for 11 July - would be a major disruption for Norwich’s preseason if Emi’s future is uncertain throughout July and would run the risk that any replacement isn’t signed by the time the season starts. 

Can’t see Norwich getting involved in any part-exchange deals with Arsenal. Much more value to be had outside of England. 

Yes, this theme I see playing out from Arsenals fan base on Twitter that 20 million and a cast off will be more than enough is just deluded. It screams of the arrogance that someone nowhere near their first team would be someone we’d be willing to forfeit 15-25 million of transfer fee over. Why? Because we are just a small club and that should excite us, to have someone even linked to the Arsenal name in our ranks.

 

Thankfully I think, as usual, we are being underestimated. Underestimated in our resolve, financial stability and even to an extent our own ambition. That’s not to say we won’t sell, it’s just the days where we might have proudly crowed at ‘selling a player to Arsenal for £20 million, can you believe it! What a club!’ are firmly behind us. 
 

Emi has just achieved one of his goals, the national team call up, with us and that presents an interesting scenario; he is likely to be away and focused solely on that for the next month, his value will likely increase with a Cap let alone imagine if he scores or assists a couple. I think he might, hopefully, have the vision to know that he is 6 months away from a Champions League side and the mega contract that would come with it.

[yellowrider120 762]

6 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I think it’s all about what Emi wants.

Would Arsenal be a step up? Of course. But is it a step he’d want to take? I’m of no doubt that he’s a player that is elite level. By that, I mean he is capable and talented enough to play for Champions League sides. 
 

Arsenal? Stepping stone. Again. 
 

If a massive club come in for him then he goes, I’m not talking Lewis to Newcastle or Godfrey to Everton, I mean a BIG club. He’s that good. 
 

Of course, we’ll have a figure in mind but I expect that it’s huge. More than Maddison, more than Godfrey. If it isn’t met, I’d expect us to offer him a huge contract, the biggest in our history to keep him for one more year. Enough to secure his family for life and long enough that should someone come in for him that it secures the future of our club for a while. 
 

Of course he will leave eventually. He’s the best player I’ve ever seen play for the club. But if we got £25m for Godfrey he isn’t leaving for less than double that, COVID or not. 

He says. Praying. 
 

The one thing that I cling to is that Webber, Farke and even Delia know how valuable he is. Not just monetarily but to our side on the pitch. If we do sell, this will be Webber’s biggest challenge yet because I don’t see how you replace him. I just don’t. 

 

I know that's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it. However, to even think that Norwich would not sell for anything less than FIFTY MILLION UK Sterling is way beyond delusional. If someone (and it doesn't matter a jot who) genuinely puts £30M - £35M in front of us we will sell.    

[Haus 259]

19 minutes ago, birchfest said:

Yes, this theme I see playing out from Arsenals fan base on Twitter that 20 million and a cast off will be more than enough is just deluded. It screams of the arrogance that someone nowhere near their first team would be someone we’d be willing to forfeit 15-25 million of transfer fee over. Why? Because we are just a small club and that should excite us, to have someone even linked to the Arsenal name in our ranks.

 

Thankfully I think, as usual, we are being underestimated. Underestimated in our resolve, financial stability and even to an extent our own ambition. That’s not to say we won’t sell, it’s just the days where we might have proudly crowed at ‘selling a player to Arsenal for £20 million, can you believe it! What a club!’ are firmly behind us. 
 

Emi has just achieved one of his goals, the national team call up, with us and that presents an interesting scenario; he is likely to be away and focused solely on that for the next month, his value will likely increase with a Cap let alone imagine if he scores or assists a couple. I think he might, hopefully, have the vision to know that he is 6 months away from a Champions League side and the mega contract that would come with it.

Id take 32m plus Martinelli

[lake district canary 4,531]

6 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I think it’s all about what Emi wants.  Would Arsenal be a step up? Of course. But is it a step he’d want to take? I’m of no doubt that he’s a player that is elite level. By that, I mean he is capable and talented enough to play for Champions League sides. 
Arsenal? Stepping stone. Again. 

If a massive club come in for him then he goes, I’m not talking Lewis to Newcastle or Godfrey to Everton, I mean a BIG club. He’s that good.

Of course, we’ll have a figure in mind but I expect that it’s huge. More than Maddison, more than Godfrey. If it isn’t met, I’d expect us to offer him a huge contract, the biggest in our history to keep him for one more year. Enough to secure his family for life and long enough that should someone come in for him that it secures the future of our club for a while.

Of course he will leave eventually. He’s the best player I’ve ever seen play for the club. But if we got £25m for Godfrey he isn’t leaving for less than double that, COVID or not. 

He says. Praying. 

The one thing that I cling to is that Webber, Farke and even Delia know how valuable he is. Not just monetarily but to our side on the pitch. If we do sell, this will be Webber’s biggest challenge yet because I don’t see how you replace him. I just don’t.

Agree with all of this. To some people Arsenal looks a good bet - big club/money etc etc, but they are not the best club and does Emi need them?  Does he need to spend two years building his career up more before moving to perhaps a top two club? Not imo. Stay and wait for the right club. Duncan is right, he is that good.

[Haus 259]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Agree with all of this. To some people Arsenal looks a good bet - big club/money etc etc, but they are not the best club and does Emi need them?  Does he need to spend two years building his career up more before moving to perhaps a top two club? Not imo. Stay and wait for the right club. Duncan is right, he is that good.

The big thing that has changed is he has been called up for Argentina, that was the main thing other than wages that they can offer him that I thought we couldnt,  I thought as an Arsenal player hed have much more chance of a call up, now hes in the international team, thats one reason to leave gone.

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

It's going to be a long summer. If Emi does well for Argentina then undoubtedly his head will be turned. You aren't going to rub shoulders with the world's best and not think I want some of that. I wouldn't be surprised if some the Argies in that squad haven't even heard of Norwich! Emi has to play consistently at a higher level if he wants to be a regular on the international stage.

Arsenal would be a great move for him. £40m is about right, the issue will be we ought to press for it all up front and not instalments.

[Jersey Canary 143]

8 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

It's going to be a long summer. If Emi does well for Argentina then undoubtedly his head will be turned. You aren't going to rub shoulders with the world's best and not think I want some of that. I wouldn't be surprised if some the Argies in that squad haven't even heard of Norwich! Emi has to play consistently at a higher level if he wants to be a regular on the international stage.

Arsenal would be a great move for him. £40m is about right, the issue will be we ought to press for it all up front and not instalments.

Modern day transfer fees are normally paid over the length of the contract signed. I doubt Arsenal will want to butcher their cash flow with such a large one off transaction they would rather spread it over 4 years or something. 

[Nuff Said 5,141]

3 hours ago, Jersey Canary said:

Modern day transfer fees are normally paid over the length of the contract signed. I doubt Arsenal will want to butcher their cash flow with such a large one off transaction they would rather spread it over 4 years or something. 

Yep, I fail to see the concern several people have raised about staged payments. Thats how the football industry works. If we buy a player we are also likely to pay in installments. The only concern would be if the buying club was at risk of folding before we receive all the money. I'd have thought we'd be fairly safe with Arsenal (unless the board read how tinpot Lakey thinks they are 😉). Even if we want the money to immediately plug a Covid  hole, banks will recognise that we have a decent future income stream.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Nuff Said

[AJ 1,221]

6 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

Interesting to see that none of the Norwich journos have really had anything to say on this.

That is because it is all speculation at the moment I'm sure

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

2 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Thought we were covered when selling Godfrey and Lewis?

We will see what the figures are for the season just gone, but the club will have to budget for 2021-22 on the worst-case scenario assumption that it will be the same, with either a severe limit on fans being allowed in or even no fans at all, so little or no income from ticket sales and catering.

 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,558]

15 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

Modern day transfer fees are normally paid over the length of the contract signed. I doubt Arsenal will want to butcher their cash flow with such a large one off transaction they would rather spread it over 4 years or something. 

Yes and no. While installments are often used for paying for players, the first one is generally around 50% of the transfer. There is often a confusion between equal yearly installments and clubs accounting for fees using 'amortisation' in their accounts - these are not the same thing. 

However, when a club sells a player with installment payments to come the usual practise than happens 99% of the time is the club then sells the debt to a third party lender for fee. So the third party then collects the future payments from the buying club while the selling club gets most of the money up front. As football clubs tend to pay their fees on time and in full it isn't particularly expensive to sell the debt onto a third party.

[Ekoku: The Ambassador Of The People 122]

Is £40m enough though? Factoring out goals and assists in his Prem season he had similar stats to De Bruyne with chances created and beat other players such as Grealish and Mahrez. Would they get sold for that price?

Obviously they have more Prem Experience and brought goals and assists to their game which Emi didn’t, but who’s to say if he had the players around him at that time he couldn’t have achieved better stats. 
 

His Argentina call up will make him more in demand and i’m not sure Arsenal is the stepping stone he needs. He’s good enough for an Atletico, for a Chelsea. Leeds and Villa are delusional if they feel they have even a remote chance of signing him. 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

Another angle to consider is around what happens if Emi becomes a regular for Argentina, presumably that would mean he would not be available to us for a lot of games, that being the case there is a school of thought that says selling him and using the money to invest in a player to replace him who would be available to us might be a better strategy, just a thought.............

[AJ 1,221]

29 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Another angle to consider is around what happens if Emi becomes a regular for Argentina, presumably that would mean he would not be available to us for a lot of games, that being the case there is a school of thought that says selling him and using the money to invest in a player to replace him who would be available to us might be a better strategy, just a thought.............

Not really relevant as we don't have to worry about that in the Premier League, there's proper international breaks. If we fail to survive relegation then Emi will be gone, and rightly so

[AJ 1,221]

32 minutes ago, Ekoku: The Ambassador Of The People said:

Is £40m enough though? Factoring out goals and assists in his Prem season he had similar stats to De Bruyne with chances created and beat other players such as Grealish and Mahrez. Would they get sold for that price?

Obviously they have more Prem Experience and brought goals and assists to their game which Emi didn’t, but who’s to say if he had the players around him at that time he couldn’t have achieved better stats. 
 

His Argentina call up will make him more in demand and i’m not sure Arsenal is the stepping stone he needs. He’s good enough for an Atletico, for a Chelsea. Leeds and Villa are delusional if they feel they have even a remote chance of signing him. 

When you consider the value of say, Foden, or Sancho, or even Bellingham, you get the idea that actually Emi could arguably require a larger fee. The only difference is those players being British have a higher value, thanks to the homegrown players rules. I'd like to think the £40M being bandied about is the upfront fee, and there'd be a number of additional clauses to take that fee much higher to nearer the £50m mark

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

8 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I don’t see how you replace him. I just don’t. 

Sorry to pick on you a second time, DE, but I thought we'd have a bit of a dive into this in a post I'm going to call...

How do you solve a problem like Buendia?

Sing it with me, everyone!

Replacing our star player would be difficult, but as has been said, may be something we're faced with doing. For me, Buendia's strengths are his creative ability and his hard work. 

That can be seen by his statistics. 15 goals, 16 assists. A look at the passing and the defensive statistics goes even further.

Passing wise, 3.1 key passes per game, 38.5 average passes. 

And defensively, 2.4 tackles per game, 1.1 interceptions per game. 

By contrast, Oli Skipp clocked in at 2.2 tackles per game, and 1.1 interceptions. Goes to show that Buendia is just as important defensively as he is offensively.

For that reason, that's what I'm going to focus on in trying to find a replacement. I'm not saying goal scoring isn't important, but I think we need that creative, hard working presence as a priority, with the ability to score goals too.

My first thought as a replacement was Harry Wilson, currently at Cardiff.

While he has the creative abilities to replace Buendia - 1.7 key passes, 11 assists, 19.6 average passes - his work rate is nothing close to Buendia. Just 0.8 tackles, 0.8 interceptions.

What about the lad from Union Berlin who has been linked, Robert Andrich? Well, interestingly he's got the hard work down - 1.8 tackles, 1.8 interceptions - but isn't quite the creative force. 2 assists, 0.7 key passes. He might well be better earmarked as a Oli Skipp replacement. Seems a different kind of player to Buendiia.

Looking through the statistics, a player who seems ready for a step up is Leicester's Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall. Not only has he shown very decent offensive capabilities in a relatively poor side (he was on loan this season at Luton), achieving six assists and three goals, with 1.7 key passes per match (remember, after Buendia the next best was Michael Olise at Reading with 1.9) 43.2 average passes per game AND defensively really seemed to contribute, with 1.6 tackles and 1.2 interceptions. We have to remember - this is all at Championship level. But he seems to have been a really stand out performer compared to pretty much everyone else at Luton. 

A look at the French leagues (said to be a League we're rather interested in) brings Romain Faivre of Brest. Seems to have been linked in January with Man Utd and PSG. 22 years of age, 6 goals, 5 assists, 1.8 key passes a game, dribbles past 2.5 players a game. Defensively he puts a shift in too, 1.5 tackles per game, 0.8 interceptions. Might be a bit of a leap to think we can sign him, but he's definitely displaying the sort of statistics that would make him a potential replacement for someone like Buendia.

Be wrong of me not to offer a German-based alternative. St Pauli's Daniel-Kofi Kiyereh seems a decent shout. 9 goals, 7 assists, 2 dribbles, 1.1 tackle, 0.7 interception. Not as good as Favire or Dewsbury-Hall defensively, but seems to be a bit deadlier in front of goal. Not sure whether he'd get a work permit.

I think there are players out there that can replace him. It's clear, though, it's not an easy or inexpensive task. But I wouldn't quite say irreplaceable. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Terminally Yellow

[FatCanary 249]

17 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Sorry to pick on you a second time, DE, but I thought we'd have a bit of a dive into this in a post I'm going to call...

How do you solve a problem like Buendia?

Sing it with me, everyone!

Replacing our star player would be difficult, but as has been said, may be something we're faced with doing. For me, Buendia's strengths are his creative ability and his hard work. 

That can be seen by his statistics. 15 goals, 16 assists. A look at the passing and the defensive statistics goes even further.

Passing wise, 3.1 key passes per game, 38.5 average passes. 

And defensively, 2.4 tackles per game, 1.1 interceptions per game. 

By contrast, Oli Skipp clocked in at 2.2 tackles per game, and 1.1 interceptions. Goes to show that Buendia is just as important defensively as he is offensively.

For that reason, that's what I'm going to focus on in trying to find a replacement. I'm not saying goal scoring isn't important, but I think we need that creative, hard working presence as a priority, with the ability to score goals too.

My first thought as a replacement was Harry Wilson, currently at Cardiff.

While he has the creative abilities to replace Buendia - 1.7 key passes, 11 assists, 19.6 average passes - his work rate is nothing close to Buendia. Just 0.8 tackles, 0.8 interceptions.

What about the lad from Union Berlin who has been linked, Robert Andrich? Well, interestingly he's got the hard work down - 1.8 tackles, 1.8 interceptions - but isn't quite the creative force. 2 assists, 0.7 key passes. He might well be better earmarked as a Oli Skipp replacement. Seems a different kind of player to Buendiia.

Looking through the statistics, a player who seems ready for a step up is Leicester's Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall. Not only has he shown very decent offensive capabilities in a relatively poor side (he was on loan this season at Luton), achieving six assists and three goals, with 1.7 key passes per match (remember, after Buendia the next best was Michael Olise at Reading with 1.9) 43.2 average passes per game AND defensively really seemed to contribute, with 1.6 tackles and 1.2 interceptions. We have to remember - this is all at Championship level. But he seems to have been a really stand out performer compared to pretty much everyone else at Luton. 

A look at the French leagues (said to be a League we're rather interested in) brings Romain Faivre of Brest. Seems to have been linked in January with Man Utd and PSG. 22 years of age, 6 goals, 5 assists, 1.8 key passes a game, dribbles past 2.5 players a game. Defensively he puts a shift in too, 1.5 tackles per game, 0.8 interceptions. Might be a bit of a leap to think we can sign him, but he's definitely displaying the sort of statistics that would make him a potential replacement for someone like Buendia.

Be wrong of me not to offer a German-based alternative. St Pauli's Daniel-Kofi Kiyereh seems a decent shout. 9 goals, 7 assists, 2 dribbles, 1.1 tackle, 0.7 interception. Not as good as Favire or Dewsbury-Hall defensively, but seems to be a bit deadlier in front of goal. Not sure whether he'd get a work permit.

I think there are players out there that can replace him. It's clear, though, it's not an easy or inexpensive task. But I wouldn't quite say irreplaceable. 

What you have here are some really great options for good signings and personality intangibles aside it's great scouting stuff.

 

However, you have also inadvertently evidenced that none of them are anywhere near as good as Buendia.

He's not irreplaceable in a 'no one else can get goals and assists and tackle as well' sense, rather in the extremes of his metrics.

The stunt we pulled to get him was incredible. Even with money, you would need the unique circumstances of affordable at the time AND producing performances of an elite level THAT have avoided the attentions of clubs much more financially powerful than ours.

 

There are plenty of players out there we could sign who could take Buendia's position in our team if we sell him, and would do quite well. If that's the best you've got, though, then he truly is irreplaceable.

Edited May 21, 2021 by FatCanary

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

31 minutes ago, AJ said:

Not really relevant as we don't have to worry about that in the Premier League, there's proper international breaks. If we fail to survive relegation then Emi will be gone, and rightly so

I had always assumed that the international breaks in the UK were because the home nations were playing, for example I am not sure there is an international break for the African Cup of Nations and don't clubs lose the services of players during this competition, but the domestic leagues do not stop whilst this tournament is on?..........

[FatCanary 249]

Yeah, but that's African Cup of Nations.

The Copa America is a summer tournament as far as I know.