Buendia to Arsenal for reported £40m

[birchfest 397]

Personally I don’t think we try and replace Buendia, if there was a replacement already available out there with similar stats.. well, they would also be worth 20 million or above. Irreplaceable isn’t just a cliche, I think it would be foolish to try, but I think a slight adjustment of dynamic and approach would offer an alternative for us moving forwards.
 

I think we instead would look at Dowell on the right and then using the money to buy a quality number 10 (by that I mean quality for 15 million) and the remaining amount invested into a winger and striker.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

8 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I had always assumed that the international breaks in the UK were because the home nations were playing, for example I am not sure there is an international break for the African Cup of Nations and don't clubs lose the services of players during this competition, but the domestic leagues do not stop whilst this tournament is on?..........

All countries play their internations during international breaks - it is why players like Aguero don't suddenly go missing for Man City etc. The African Cup of Nations is the exception as they didn't want to hold a tournament in African in the summer (understandably). However, the 2023 and 2025 Cup of Nations are scheduled to be summer tournaments. There is one planned for early 2022 which will see some African players unavailable for selection - although whether that will go ahead due to continuing COVID concerns is unclear, it was supposed to be in Jan 2021. 

[AJ 1,218]

29 minutes ago, birchfest said:

Personally I don’t think we try and replace Buendia, if there was a replacement already available out there with similar stats.. well, they would also be worth 20 million or above. Irreplaceable isn’t just a cliche, I think it would be foolish to try, but I think a slight adjustment of dynamic and approach would offer an alternative for us moving forwards.
 

I think we instead would look at Dowell on the right and then using the money to buy a quality number 10 (by that I mean quality for 15 million) and the remaining amount invested into a winger and striker.

I agree with this logic, and personally think Dowell actually looks better coming in from wide when he drifts out there. I still think he can operate at no10 this season but long term agree we should probably invest in a 'proper' 10 that can change or dictate a game, like Stiepi did in our last promotion season.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

1 hour ago, FatCanary said:

What you have here are some really great options for good signings and personality intangibles aside it's great scouting stuff.

 

However, you have also inadvertently evidenced that none of them are anywhere near as good as Buendia.

He's not irreplaceable in a 'no one else can get goals and assists and tackle as well' sense, rather in the extremes of his metrics.

The stunt we pulled to get him was incredible. Even with money, you would need the unique circumstances of affordable at the time AND producing performances of an elite level THAT have avoided the attentions of clubs much more financially powerful than ours.

There are plenty of players out there we could sign who could take Buendia's position in our team if we sell him, and would do quite well. If that's the best you've got, though, then he truly is irreplaceable.

Now FC. I said I liked you the other day. An honour I have bestowed on only two prior forum users. Let's not spoil that.

The point of my post was not "here's how good Buendia has been" but rather to identify players who perform similar roles in their sides that Buendia does for us. 

After all, statistics only show half a story. And if you compare Emi to the best in the Premier League, the statistics he's getting in the championship would put him above De Bruyne and Fernandes. He's an exceptional player in an exceptional side in a division that side is simply too good for. 

No one doubts that replacing Buendia would be difficult. But he's not irreplaceable. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Terminally Yellow

[Wrathofthefarkely 54]

1 hour ago, birchfest said:

Personally I don’t think we try and replace Buendia, if there was a replacement already available out there with similar stats.. well, they would also be worth 20 million or above. Irreplaceable isn’t just a cliche, I think it would be foolish to try, but I think a slight adjustment of dynamic and approach would offer an alternative for us moving forwards.
 

I think we instead would look at Dowell on the right and then using the money to buy a quality number 10 (by that I mean quality for 15 million) and the remaining amount invested into a winger and striker.

Dowell does not have the engine to play wide right or left. 

[Wrathofthefarkely 54]

1 hour ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I had always assumed that the international breaks in the UK were because the home nations were playing, for example I am not sure there is an international break for the African Cup of Nations and don't clubs lose the services of players during this competition, but the domestic leagues do not stop whilst this tournament is on?..........

I have to question how you follow football but don't understand international breaks. 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

3 minutes ago, Wrathofthefarkely said:

I have to question how you follow football but don't understand international breaks. 

Because I lost interest in international football years ago, am not particularly interested in how each Federation works and have never really given the subject matter much thought, clearly, was not aware that supporting and loving Norwich City was conditional on having an in depth knowledge of international football.......

Edited May 21, 2021 by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB

[ged in the onion bag 854]

14 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Argentina have seven fixtures during the summer and if he gets to play and seen to do well, his value goes up, as does his desirability to be bought by a top UK club.  So if there are any offers, from Arsenal or anyone else, best to bat them away until he returns to this country when his stock may have risen even more than now. 

Still think Arsenal are not in a better place for him to win anything. Arsenal are not a big club on a good path, they are a big club on a rocky path and have been for years and it would be a bad step imo.

So he is better off staying with us unless Man City come calling with enough money. So I would say, don't sell yourself short, wait for the right club to come in and if they don't, stay and carry on developing with us until they do.If he does get an offer he likes and the club can agree the price, then it ought to be Man City - he is a Guardiola type player...and if they get Kane too, Buendia could be the man to supply him with his chances. Could be a goal fest extreme! 

Man City or Norwich. The best or the best. Anything in between is just meh. 

Well, I agree with you!   We need Buendia next season so give him a much improved deal to stay next season.... not necessarily extend the contract just make sure Emi's happy financially!  

[ged in the onion bag 854]

15 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

No one doubts that replacing Buendia would be difficult. But he's not irreplaceable. 

Sadly, he is irreplaceable!   He's that good!    Not only his creativity and assists, but he's the other half of Teemu too!    Without Emi, Teemu isn't the same player!

No doubt we will still pick 11 starters, but that one position (our most crucial offensively) will be deficient. 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

All countries play their internations during international breaks - it is why players like Aguero don't suddenly go missing for Man City etc. The African Cup of Nations is the exception as they didn't want to hold a tournament in African in the summer (understandably). However, the 2023 and 2025 Cup of Nations are scheduled to be summer tournaments. There is one planned for early 2022 which will see some African players unavailable for selection - although whether that will go ahead due to continuing COVID concerns is unclear, it was supposed to be in Jan 2021. 

Thanks for that Bethnal, I just assumed each Federation had different approaches, mainly because of the ACN example and had not realised that international breaks were globally coordinated (hard to believe that FIFA could be so organised), apparently I have committed some sort of cardinal football sin 😂..........

[Ramrod 258]

Buendia has been the beating heart of our side this past season, but only after a public reprimand from Daniel Farke who highlighted months of mediocrity (which included being suckered into another red card). 

Buendia owes everything to Farke's tutorship and, I suspect, the cool head of his Finnish friend and team mate. There was no rush for his services and EPL and similar Clubs will know how Buendia performed in his one EPL season where he consistently lost the ball and allowed dangerous breaks while he sat on the ground, protesting. 

Buendia has learned and gone to another level. 

Much of the EPL is physical and mediocre. The greatest players have to work hard, as Buendia has last season otherwise their ability alone isn't enough. 

I see strong runners like Cantwell and Dowell as more typical of successful EPL players. Buendia has a lot to prove at this level IMHO and he is targeted by streetwise operators. 

Can we survive without him? Yes, because defensivness is more important ar EPL level and we might find a stronger physical presence, which we desperately need anyway. As much as club and player fell out I would cite an Andy Townshend type as ideal for a replacement or an addition and these players are more widely available for less money. 

Whatever happens I hope Emi Buendia makes the right choice. I'd like to see him go back to Spain or Italy and he would leave as one of our greatest ever players. 

 

[king canary 7,580]

12 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

Buendia has been the beating heart of our side this past season, but only after a public reprimand from Daniel Farke who highlighted months of mediocrity (which included being suckered into another red card). 

Buendia owes everything to Farke's tutorship and, I suspect, the cool head of his Finnish friend and team mate. There was no rush for his services and EPL and similar Clubs will know how Buendia performed in his one EPL season where he consistently lost the ball and allowed dangerous breaks while he sat on the ground, protesting. 

Buendia has learned and gone to another level. 

Much of the EPL is physical and mediocre. The greatest players have to work hard, as Buendia has last season otherwise their ability alone isn't enough. 

I see strong runners like Cantwell and Dowell as more typical of successful EPL players. Buendia has a lot to prove at this level IMHO and he is targeted by streetwise operators. 

Can we survive without him? Yes, because defensivness is more important ar EPL level and we might find a stronger physical presence, which we desperately need anyway. As much as club and player fell out I would cite an Andy Townshend type as ideal for a replacement or an addition and these players are more widely available for less money. 

Whatever happens I hope Emi Buendia makes the right choice. I'd like to see him go back to Spain or Italy and he would leave as one of our greatest ever players. 

 

I feel like you've been watching a different player to me. I dont think I've seen Buendia offer months of mediocrity and the idea that Dowell is a 'stronger runner' than him doesn't ring true at all.

[Nuff Said 5,090]

Two things:

1) The last time we played without Emi (Forest), we were described as “scintillating “ by the BBC. Fantastic player though Emi is, he’s not the be all and end all of our performances.

2) Emi wasn’t this good when we bought him. We have to hope Farke and the coaching team can improve whoever we eventually buy as a replacement, at a minimum effectively integrate them into the way we play. As posters have already pointed out, James Maddison came and went and we survived. We can do it again.

 

Having said that, I’d love it if he gave us one more season. Apart from anything else it would be great to see him in yellow and green again IRL.

[Ramrod 258]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I feel like you've been watching a different player to me. I dont think I've seen Buendia offer months of mediocrity and the idea that Dowell is a 'stronger runner' than him doesn't ring true at all.

Farke reprimanded Buendia and Cantwell then left both out at Bournemouth. Credit to Emi, he took it on board immediately, Todd more slowly. It was great management. 

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

3 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Two things:

1) The last time we played without Emi (Forest), we were described as “scintillating “ by the BBC. Fantastic player though Emi is, he’s not the be all and end all of our performances.

2) Emi wasn’t this good when we bought him. We have to hope Farke and the coaching team can improve whoever we eventually buy as a replacement, at a minimum effectively integrate them into the way we play. As posters have already pointed out, James Maddison came and went and we survived. We can do it again.

 

Having said that, I’d love it if he gave us one more season. Apart from anything else it would be great to see him in yellow and green again IRL.

Agree with all that but the Emi replacement would need to integrate incredibly quickly.

We could be going into one of the most important seasons of our recent history without our best player and who, as you say, took time to become as good as he is now. Buying someone that good isn’t possible financially so we’re investing in potential again. Great for the long term, but what happens to this season 

[king canary 7,580]

3 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

Farke reprimanded Buendia and Cantwell then left both out at Bournemouth. Credit to Emi, he took it on board immediately, Todd more slowly. It was great management. 

Yes I'm aware but I dont see how that shows he was mediocre for months or that Dowell runs harder than him?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I hope we don’t need to replace him but if we do I agree it’s probably wrong to think of looking for a single player to replace him. It’s probably more a case if could you get in a couple of midfielders /wide players to replace him who are able to share more of the load and perhaps see us slightly adapt the way we play. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

3 hours ago, AJ said:

That is because it is all speculation at the moment I'm sure

Nah, we're on page 8 of this , it's rapidly changing from spekkylayshun to fact. Every page makes it more likely,  every post is another million on the price. 

If we all shut the ferk up about him, he'll  be in yellow and green come seasons start. 

[Ramrod 258]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Yes I'm aware but I dont see how that shows he was mediocre for months or that Dowell runs harder than him?

I recall DF talking about stats at the time. As for Dowell I was referring to his direct runs with the ball which really added something. Different players but I just believe Dowell will suit the PL as does Cantwell. For what it's worth I also have high hopes for Sorensen. 

Thanks for the debate. 

[sgncfc 1,223]

14 hours ago, FatCanary said:

£15-20m would be the price for Nketiah.

The circumstances surrounding Kieran Dowell and the U20 world Cup compared to when we signed him are so vastly different to Nketiah being the record goal scorer in an elder age group....right now? Players struggling on one loan can be circumstantial and Arsenal have many £15m players who struggle to get into their team. Even if you want to persist with the slightly mad Dowell comparison you need to ask yourself not what he was worth after floundering around on championship land and seeing his value depreciate until he found the right fit, but what he was worth to Everton then. Probably about £10m. 

 

Add to this that Nketiah is a striker, so immediately more valuable, actually holds an individual record (unlike Dowell) for the most precious commodity in football (goals), and you can see that due to his potential, his age now and his subsequent resale value, why anything less than £15m is insulting to Arsenal.

 

Sorry, but your £7-8m is lunacy.

Well we'll just have to disagree - I think you're closer to lunacy than I am. As do most other people on this board, it seems.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

I watched River Plate beat Santa Fe of Colombia with only ten fit and available players (played an injured midfielder in goal). Obviously not premier League quality but Carrascal at no.10 and 21 year old Alvarez up front looked extremely talented. With Argentina being in another crisis and no fans in the ground I should think bargains could be had...

[A Load of Squit 5,134]

Emi is going to Wolves as player/manager, Daftobet have stop taking money on it happening.

[Essjayess 307]

So hate transfer rumours at times. Obvious fact right now is that Emi has just won a Championship title with City, hes won the Championship player of the season for both his club and the entire division, he has  both scored  goals and created assists for goals in numbers no other European player could match this season and has earned a call up to his nations squad to rub shoulders with the likes of Messi and Aguero, be it on or off the pitch. Add in  that he is happy at City, he likes the area and he has Prem football to enjoy in the coming season i dont think that he, personally, will be banging on DF or SW's door asking to leave.

Right now all we have are rumours and rumours  mean diddly squat. Until such times as things become more concrete then they mean nothing. I just revel in the fact that in the short space of 2 or 3 years we have had the pleasure, in Madders and Emi, to have watched two of the greatest players ever to adorn the yellow and green.

[smooth 114]

I still think we don't realise how close he was to being the number 1 player for key passes in our last premier league season.

He was on par with De Bruyne, Maddison and Grealish in key passes.

He was a top 4 player with chances created, albeit de bruyne was way ahead of the other 3.

I am sure he had some time when he was dropped and of course we had changes with the team shape that effected ths whole group with injuries and then the end of season was a very big struggle.

If he had scored goals last season in the Premier league I think a better offer may have come in for him and he may not have been here last season.

But that is the past, he can be in the top 5 of these categories, and more, again next season for us and certainly if he moves to a bigger team.

He is an exceptional talent, all his plaudits are well deserved.

If we can use our plethora of other internationals to help bring others to the club we may just keep him for next season.

That is the key, I feel we have a proposition for many players from Europe. Premier league football, playing for a progressive manager, amazing facilities and a team full of internationals. 

[Tumbleweed 106]

In some ways I think we need him to go if a good offer comes in. Its the only way that this model that we have seems to operate by: buy cheap, develop and then sell at a maximum price. But that doesn't mean I would like him to go.

At the moment Buendia may indeed be worth £35m but it is possible he may not reach that figure again, his stock is really high right now. I remember the early days of NCFC in the old Div 1- constant regeneration with good players sold. It didn't always go down well but most of the time the departure of a star player could be compensated for. We do have a bit of strength in attacking midfielders, probably where we have most depth.

We clearly need strengthening elsewhere. IF he is sold, I'd like us to use the money to try to buy Skipp, if Spurs sell, and another striker. We also probably need another CB. We must ensure that we stem the flow of goals against, our attacking quality is decent but even with Buendia is probably not going to get us an average over 2 goals a game if we ship at the same rate.

[dylanisabaddog 4,874]

Heard an interesting story from a friend today. Emi is in the Argentina squad at the suggestion/request of Athletico Madrid manager Diego Simione. Emi is on 'holiday' in Madrid at the moment prior to going over to Argentina. 

Make of that what you will. 

[AJ 1,218]

4 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Nah, we're on page 8 of this , it's rapidly changing from spekkylayshun to fact. Every page makes it more likely,  every post is another million on the price. 

If we all shut the ferk up about him, he'll  be in yellow and green come seasons start. 

Didn't work out with the Fabio Quaqliarella thread!

[AJ 1,218]

34 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Heard an interesting story from a friend today. Emi is in the Argentina squad at the suggestion/request of Athletico Madrid manager Diego Simione. Emi is on 'holiday' in Madrid at the moment prior to going over to Argentina. 

Make of that what you will. 

Left Spain to make it to the Premier League. He ain't going back to Spain this summer

[dylanisabaddog 4,874]

1 hour ago, AJ said:

Left Spain to make it to the Premier League. He ain't going back to Spain this summer

He left Spain to improve himself. He's been there since he was 10. Doubt he'd say no to a big Spanish club

[Hairy Canary 668]

Emi is irreplaceable on a like for like basis. If we lose him we need to use the cash to strengthen two or three positions and look to make the all round team better.