Daniel Farke to Leeds

[lake district canary 4,531]

5 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Stopped reading at this point. Man City wouldn't get beaten 7-0 would they? 

Look, it's not my fault you are incapable of seeing a balanced view because you are so set in your sad old ways that talking to you is just a waste of your and more importantly my time. 

Welcome to my ignore list.

Ooh, I'm so sad 😥......

 

........not 🤣 😂 🤣  

 

[AJ 1,221]

Could see him going to and doing well at Celtic to be fair. Their fans would absolutely love him if he does well. 

As for Leeds, I wouldn't mind, if anything if he does well it'll be another difficult pill for Webber to swallow. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by AJ

[TheBaldOne66 684]

6 hours ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Truth hurt?
Talk sh1t and I will call you out on it, sorry you got butt hurt. 

Nope it’s the pathetic you’re a binner line that people constantly trot out when they have no answer to a quote from someone. Shows what mentality you have, your brain cell must get extremely lonely on its own 

[Canary dwarf 221]

Farke has to go down as a all time Norwich city legend , one of our best managers of all time who can forget the two seasons we absolutely piiissseedd this league playing champagne football , ok prem wise it didn't work out but there are reasons for that , Dean Smith and Wagner were poor appointments , long live farke long live the king.otbc

[Fen Canary 825]

1 hour ago, Canary dwarf said:

Farke has to go down as a all time Norwich city legend , one of our best managers of all time who can forget the two seasons we absolutely piiissseedd this league playing champagne football , ok prem wise it didn't work out but there are reasons for that , Dean Smith and Wagner were poor appointments , long live farke long live the king.otbc

Personally I’d put Brown, Stringer, Walker and (as much as I hate to say it) Lambert above Farke as they all achieved much more and at a higher level, even if Farkes football was easier on the eye. I’d have him level with Worthington, as Farkes record in the second tier is better but Worthy made a better stab at the top flight. Unfortunately we simply capitulated at Fulham to undo a seasons hard work.

[Canary dwarf 221]

25 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Personally I’d put Brown, Stringer, Walker and (as much as I hate to say it) Lambert above Farke as they all achieved much more and at a higher level, even if Farkes football was easier on the eye. I’d have him level with Worthington, as Farkes record in the second tier is better but Worthy made a better stab at the top flight. Unfortunately we simply capitulated at Fulham to undo a seasons hard work.

Yeah walker and Lambert probably achieved more , but level with Worthington really ? .first season promoted no money to spend, second season money spent but not able to get the players he wanted in apart from rashica!

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

1. Walker

2. Brown

3 Farke

4. lambert 

Wagner has a LOT to do to convince me he is able to do half as much…

[City fan 78]

On 09/06/2023 at 22:32, Google Bot said:

It would be heart-breaking, but I love his style of play so would be nice to see him back managing in this country.  We've moved on now, the past is the past.

Personally, they're reasonably high profile and I couldn't see them taking the gamble based on his Prem League record, though.  I would love to see him playing farkeball at a club that better equipped him with players though, from a curiosity perspective more than anything.

God pre.

[Fen Canary 825]

1 hour ago, Canary dwarf said:

Yeah walker and Lambert probably achieved more , but level with Worthington really ? .first season promoted no money to spend, second season money spent but not able to get the players he wanted in apart from rashica!

I think Worthy’s achievement is somewhat underrated, perhaps clouded by his eventual sacking which went on too long.

Farke took over a side that whilst underperforming and in need of upheaval, had been in the prem two years previous and finished just outside the playoffs the year before. Worthington took over a side that had been languishing in the bottom half of the champs since the mid 90’s and was even poorer than we are now.

Thus isn’t to belittle Farkes achievements, the man did a great job in the second tier but with the players Worthy had at his disposal I think his achievements are equal to them 

[Sheva 123]

Personally I wouldn’t have sacked Farke at the time and the way it was done, obviously thrown under the bus to direct attention away from Webber imo.

For me it has to be Ken Brown as the best ever NCFC manager. He took over at a difficult time with an ageing team, when Bond jumped ship to Man City. Even Bond didn’t rate him as a manager and they were supposed to be mates!

He built with Mel Machine a top class young team with lots of reserves from the likes of Spurs and some old Div 2 clubs. Stringer and Walker got the benefit of them as well later. The team played attacking football and passed the ball positively. We actually won something as well, Milk Cup 1985 and if not for the Liverpool hooliganism, would have played in Europe.

On top of this Kenny was/is a top man and always happy and joking, was not a bad player either.

A mention for Ron Saunders too, completely different but a great character and hard man!

[lake district canary 4,531]

Comparing Farke to long distant managers is difficult. Times have changed so much and the PL is a vastly different proposition to even ten years ago with Lambert and Hughton. It was possible under Lambert to go with virtually the same team as got promoted and stay up. That would be very difficult these days. 

Farke represented far more than just being a championship manager, he represented a philosophy. A philosophy that did not allow egos to step out of line and get the upper hand. It's perhaps an old fashioned idea, but it worked for Brian Clough - the idea that the collective is what matters, not the individual. Working in that way, you get the kind of togetherness that a club like ours needs - and it was perfect at our level. Kick out the prima Donnas, get the squad totally together and anything is possible. 

What it meant I  terms of the PL is that certain players let success go to their heads. We've seen it over the years at Norwich and at other clubs - players thinking they are better than the club thay are at.  In recent times, Cantwell for one. Brady also comes to mind there. 

So throwing away Farke was throwing away far more than just a failed PL manager, it threw away what got us in the PL in the first place - and we haven't replaced him. Wagner may do it, who knows, but football is about more than results, more than the money pit Premier wretched League - it's about soul - and Farke gave us that soul. Yes, he struggled with egos sometimes, but in all cases has been proved correct in his dealings with them. 

I would say that if we had more money, Farke would have got the quality players he needed, if he had been backed rather than thrown away, he would have been able to develop us further over the four years if his contract. 

He us a class act and given the right club, where he can mould a squad and bring a club together, he will do well again. Leeds could be that club, who knows. 

[shefcanary 2,409]

23 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I remember going to matches where Emi was out of the team and we played just as well without him as with him.

I remember us never winning without Emi in the team!

[norfolkngood 1,087]

Got to be Lambert really hammered us 7-1 then took over and took us to the PL from Lg1 and stayed there 

Walker ,Brown and Farke were wonderful Managers but Lambert for me 

Edited June 11, 2023 by norfolkngood

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

5 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I remember us never winning without Emi in the team!

Ditto. 

[hogesar 9,676]

47 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Comparing Farke to long distant managers is difficult. Times have changed so much and the PL is a vastly different proposition to even ten years ago with Lambert and Hughton. It was possible under Lambert to go with virtually the same team as got promoted and stay up. That would be very difficult these days. 

Farke represented far more than just being a championship manager, he represented a philosophy. A philosophy that did not allow egos to step out of line and get the upper hand. It's perhaps an old fashioned idea, but it worked for Brian Clough - the idea that the collective is what matters, not the individual. Working in that way, you get the kind of togetherness that a club like ours needs - and it was perfect at our level. Kick out the prima Donnas, get the squad totally together and anything is possible. 

What it meant I  terms of the PL is that certain players let success go to their heads. We've seen it over the years at Norwich and at other clubs - players thinking they are better than the club thay are at.  In recent times, Cantwell for one. Brady also comes to mind there. 

So throwing away Farke was throwing away far more than just a failed PL manager, it threw away what got us in the PL in the first place - and we haven't replaced him. Wagner may do it, who knows, but football is about more than results, more than the money pit Premier wretched League - it's about soul - and Farke gave us that soul. Yes, he struggled with egos sometimes, but in all cases has been proved correct in his dealings with them. 

I would say that if we had more money, Farke would have got the quality players he needed, if he had been backed rather than thrown away, he would have been able to develop us further over the four years if his contract. 

He us a class act and given the right club, where he can mould a squad and bring a club together, he will do well again. Leeds could be that club, who knows. 

Again I can't see where you've answered your claim that egos were a problem at BM for him this past season? And if its still his responsibility to sort that, and he ultimately failed.

Remember that Farke is one of my favourite all time managers - and I've not seen us play so well at Champs level as under him. Complete dominance.

What we can't do is make assumptions without acknowledging context. Like you with his season in Germany.

But also other things. The assumption Farke would have got us promoted this season appears to be based on the fact he did last time.

But last time there were no fans. And we started worse than we did under Smith. And the passing around the back that was jeered and booed early into this past season was the exact same that season. Jesus, losing at home to 10 men Wayne Rooney Derby had Farke Out demand on this forum. God knows how the stadium would have responded. And with that negativity? Well, Webber has made a valid point on that.. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,720]

3 hours ago, shefcanary said:

I remember us never winning without Emi in the team!

And you could argue the loss of Emi and Skipp is still being felt as we have still failed to replace them.

[NeymarSmith 130]

On 10/06/2023 at 14:30, Terminally Yellow said:

I could name 15 to 20 people who would be better. Managers who have greater tactical acumen. Managers who don't fall out with our better players. Managers capable of a plan B. Managers who wouldn't have led the club to 7-0 losses.

The issue was never with sacking Farke. It's with who he was replaced with. 

Lets have the 15-20 names then that would realistically uproot to norfolk with their family, and we could afford and who would do all these things then?

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

27 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

Lets have the 15-20 names then that would realistically uproot to norfolk with their family, and we could afford and who would do all these things then?

That wasn’t the question asked, was it? That’s the problem with you narrow minded revisionists. Always changing the goal posts to suit your points. 

[Highland Canary 76]

Leeds nailed on for the title. So disappointing. If only we could get new investment into the club. If we carry on our current rate of decline we’ll finish back in tier three.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

13 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Nope it’s the pathetic you’re a binner line that people constantly trot out when they have no answer to a quote from someone. Shows what mentality you have, your brain cell must get extremely lonely on its own 

Alright no need for personals just because I see your blue and white scarf.

Putting up a pretty decent defence there pal. You proper threw the toys out of the pram there, hit a truth didn't I!

Who do you enjoy your "alone" time to the most?

John wark posters?

McKenna pictures or are you still keeping the love for chambo?

Good luck next season.

[ron obvious 1,502]

5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Comparing Farke to long distant managers is difficult. Times have changed so much and the PL is a vastly different proposition to even ten years ago with Lambert and Hughton. It was possible under Lambert to go with virtually the same team as got promoted and stay up. That would be very difficult these days. 

Farke represented far more than just being a championship manager, he represented a philosophy. A philosophy that did not allow egos to step out of line and get the upper hand. It's perhaps an old fashioned idea, but it worked for Brian Clough - the idea that the collective is what matters, not the individual. Working in that way, you get the kind of togetherness that a club like ours needs - and it was perfect at our level. Kick out the prima Donnas, get the squad totally together and anything is possible. 

What it meant I  terms of the PL is that certain players let success go to their heads. We've seen it over the years at Norwich and at other clubs - players thinking they are better than the club thay are at.  In recent times, Cantwell for one. Brady also comes to mind there. 

So throwing away Farke was throwing away far more than just a failed PL manager, it threw away what got us in the PL in the first place - and we haven't replaced him. Wagner may do it, who knows, but football is about more than results, more than the money pit Premier wretched League - it's about soul - and Farke gave us that soul. Yes, he struggled with egos sometimes, but in all cases has been proved correct in his dealings with them. 

I would say that if we had more money, Farke would have got the quality players he needed, if he had been backed rather than thrown away, he would have been able to develop us further over the four years if his contract. 

He us a class act and given the right club, where he can mould a squad and bring a club together, he will do well again. Leeds could be that club, who knows. 

Absolutely agree. To me the analogy would be the difference between choral music & opera; I can't stand 99% of opera,  because it mainly consists of people shouting at each other while striking ridiculous poses, each trying to outdo the other in terms of volume & extremity of vibrato. The 'duets' are power struggles. 

Choral music on the other hand is a group of individual voices blending together to produce beautiful music while still maintaining their individuality. They are a team, in other words, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

 

I would say that if we had more money, Farke would have got the quality players he needed, if he had been backed rather than thrown away, he would have been able to develop us further over the four years if his contract. 

 

You're talking hundreds of millions there and to have quite a high success rate with signings. No team outside of the top 6 or 8 in that league play like Farke sides do, it's suicidal. Only Leicester were similar under Rodgers and they've just been relegated with a squad that could've easily finished top half. 

Unless we're taken over by a Middle Eastern state like Newcastle were (I suspect most would have a huge issue with that) we would never be able to afford to make it work with Farke in that league. 

So if you're one of those who were happy to suffer the humiliating and extremely demoralizing relegations for the sake of having an identity and a club ethos then fair enough, I suspect you're not alone either, but for most people the performances and results were unacceptable and given that we lost Buendia there's no guarantee the good times in the Championship would have continued either if you look at Farke's record without him. 

There's another factor that gets overlooked as well and that's if we stuck with Farke or always employed managers who play the same style we'd have a clear and obvious glass ceiling that we'd never be able to break through. Fans would know that success at this level would only mean a gruelling season of getting battered every week in the PL. There would be nothing to hope for or aspire to and it leads to a malaise and apathy in the fanbase. Many are suffering from that now (although that's more due to our financial constraints but trying to play idealistic football would compound it further) and it's why there's no atmosphere or enthusiasm in the crowd anymore because the fans feel like they have nothing to hope for. Any success would always lead to failure. Putting results together in the Championship would soon become meaningless and then even when it's as good as it gets for us fans would be bored.

We had to try something different, we've made mistakes doing that obviously but we were right to change approach because it's obvious that Farke or another manager like him can only get us so far. 

[sonyc 5,519]

41 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Absolutely agree. To me the analogy would be the difference between choral music & opera; I can't stand 99% of opera,  because it mainly consists of people shouting at each other while striking ridiculous poses, each trying to outdo the other in terms of volume & extremity of vibrato. The 'duets' are power struggles. 

Choral music on the other hand is a group of individual voices blending together to produce beautiful music while still maintaining their individuality. They are a team, in other words, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

Nice metaphor there.

But it has just reminded me...Did you watch that Tippett programme on BBC2 RO? ....The Shadow and the Light.

Never understood him before this programme but the choral snippets (even operatic in parts) were quite astonishing. Brilliant in fact. Anyway, if not, try the iPlayer.🙂

 

[ron obvious 1,502]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Nice metaphor there.

But it has just reminded me...Did you watch that Tippett programme on BBC2 RO? ....The Shadow and the Light.

Never understood him before this programme but the choral snippets (even operatic in parts) were quite astonishing. Brilliant in fact. Anyway, if not, try the iPlayer.🙂

 

Ta for the info sonyc, I'll give it a listen. Love Tippett (mostly). Although I remember a friend of mine singing a phrase from The Knot Garden which he thought singularly ludicrous ... " pass me the secateeeeurs!! . I had to agree. But his Little Symphony For Strings is a delight, & the Concerto for Double String Orchestra is drop dead gorgeous. 

I remember sitting through an amateur production of A Child Of Our Time, which really took the biscuit for me when a bunch of Home Counties ladies with the associated enunciation started singing Let My People Go ...

[king canary 7,607]

15 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

You're talking hundreds of millions there and to have quite a high success rate with signings. No team outside of the top 6 or 8 in that league play like Farke sides do, it's suicidal. Only Leicester were similar under Rodgers and they've just been relegated with a squad that could've easily finished top half. 

 

I think this is the key point with Farke. I think Amadou is a key case in point. When we went up we clearly needed a DM. Amadou came in with a fair bit of pedigree- over 100 top flight games, captain of a Bielsa team etc etc. Watching him he clearly had the athletic profile/physicality we'd lacked but he also was clearly not as comfortable on the ball as players like Trybull. However Farke wasn't willing to compromise on ability on the ball and thus he barely ever played as a DM and our midfield got cut through with ease week after week. 

I'm not saying Amadou would have saved our season- but at some point you have to accept that you're not going to get a Premier League level DM who is also comfortable on the ball without either digging out an incredible diamond like Leicester did with Kante or you have to accept a bit of compromise. To get the kind of players to play Farkeball at the top level you need a huge budget or an awful lot of luck in your recruitment. 

 

[king canary 7,607]

On 11/06/2023 at 08:03, Fen Canary said:

I think Worthy’s achievement is somewhat underrated, perhaps clouded by his eventual sacking which went on too long.

Farke took over a side that whilst underperforming and in need of upheaval, had been in the prem two years previous and finished just outside the playoffs the year before. Worthington took over a side that had been languishing in the bottom half of the champs since the mid 90’s and was even poorer than we are now.

Thus isn’t to belittle Farkes achievements, the man did a great job in the second tier but with the players Worthy had at his disposal I think his achievements are equal to them 

Yeah I agree with this. It is easy to forget how unexpected the playoff final in 01/02 was, coming off the back of several seasons where we never looked like troubling the top 6. To build us back up and have us one game away from staying up was very impressive, it was just marred by what came next.

I'd probably rate Farke above him in that he did it twice, while Worthy struggled badly after relegation but I agree Worthington does get a bit underrated/forgotten in what he did.

[Google Bot 3,278]

22 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Farke represented far more than just being a championship manager, he represented a philosophy. A philosophy that did not allow egos to step out of line and get the upper hand.

To be fair, from what I've heard and seen, Lambert was better in regards to letting players know who's boss and what is acceptable around the squad.  I think Farke was more the type to go cold on players rather than having it out with them as Lambert would, I think Farke was all about being calm in approach.

And while Farke's calm approach fits in with his overall philosophies, 'Sometimes' it's better to go head-on and seek to get a reaction in the next match.  Farke never struck me as that sort, if he wasn't happy with you, you'd become frozen out of the team to set an example - as we saw with Todd and Tzolis.

Not a great fan of that approach, personally.  When I think back to playing myself, I'd rather have it out with the manager or another player and they tell me exactly what they think.

I think that's why we were better battle hardened under Lambert to compete and go at teams in the prem.

[Robert N. LiM 4,358]

35 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah I agree with this. It is easy to forget how unexpected the playoff final in 01/02 was, coming off the back of several seasons where we never looked like troubling the top 6. To build us back up and have us one game away from staying up was very impressive, it was just marred by what came next.

I'd probably rate Farke above him in that he did it twice, while Worthy struggled badly after relegation but I agree Worthington does get a bit underrated/forgotten in what he did.

Yes, agree with you and @Fen Canary. Worthington did an outstanding job. We were such a rabble when he took over, just mired in the second tier and really not looking like going anywhere. It's astonishing he got those players into the top six: he did it with real organisation and teamwork - the classic manager's job, really. Then he saw what that team was missing, an attacking cutting edge, made the board see it by picking a team with no strikers in the League Cup (was it against Northampton?) and went out and got Huckerby. That title season under Worthington was an absolute joy, and as someone often says on here, we were one goal short of staying up the following season (just one goal to turn one of our many, many draws into a win).

I think one of the reasons he gets forgotten is that he was a quiet, uncharismatic man, unlike Farke who just oozed charisma. But he did a great job as City manager and it was a great shame that the drawn-out nature of his departure led to him getting personal abuse such a decent man really didn't deserve.

Also, I really did love Paul McVeigh.

[king canary 7,607]

2 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yes, agree with you and @Fen Canary. Worthington did an outstanding job. We were such a rabble when he took over, just mired in the second tier and really not looking like going anywhere. It's astonishing he got those players into the top six: he did it with real organisation and teamwork - the classic manager's job, really. Then he saw what that team was missing, an attacking cutting edge, made the board see it by picking a team with no strikers in the League Cup (was it against Northampton?) and went out and got Huckerby. That title season under Worthington was an absolute joy, and as someone often says on here, we were one goal short of staying up the following season (just one goal to turn one of our many, many draws into a win).

I think one of the reasons he gets forgotten is that he was a quiet, uncharismatic man, unlike Farke who just oozed charisma. But he did a great job as City manager and it was a great shame that the drawn-out nature of his departure led to him getting personal abuse such a decent man really didn't deserve.

Also, I really did love Paul McVeigh.

Yeah, look at that squad we had in 01/02! Starting XI was often Green, Kenton, Mackay, Fleming, Drury, Rivers, Holt, Mulryne, Easton, McVeigh, Roberts. Hardly world beaters but he got them playing really well together.

Another thing I'll say for Worthy- 14 year old me met him in London while he was with his son at the London Eye. My mum introduced me even though I said not too but he was happy to talk to me even while he was off the clock. Seemed a really nice guy.

[Robert N. LiM 4,358]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Another thing I'll say for Worthy- 14 year old me met him in London while he was with his son at the London Eye. My mum introduced me even though I said not too but he was happy to talk to me even while he was off the clock. Seemed a really nice guy.

Yeah, that checks out. Just always seemed a good man.