EXCLUSIVE: US tycoons in Norwich City investment talks

[Herman 9,765]

6 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Never a true word spoken in jest..You never know if that manky sheet and shouty 20 were the straw that broke the Camel's back?....

"What made you sell Delia?"

"W*nkstains!!"

[Mello Yello 2,293]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

It could have been the word "c.u.n.t." that did it

In my many trips to the US of A....Their folk (especially Ladies) aren't happy with people using that particular word...

(The F word is pretty popular though....especially with the American Forces)....well popular with the majority of folk...

[Van wink 2,994]

Just let a bit of wee out

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

20 minutes ago, Badger said:

I am happy to put my hand up to that one! I am amazed that US investors are buying (or buying into) us when we are not a distressed asset. I can't see why they would pay market value for us, when the market value of other clubs with similar (or greater) potential is much lower.

Glad  to be wrong if I am and hope that it's a capital injection rather than a buyout.

Need the help of @PurpleCanary or @shefcanary on this, but would the majority shareholders be able to offer new equity at below market value without approval of the shareholders as a whole?

Badger, that raises the question of what is the market value of the club! If the club was traded on a stock market it would be easy, or easier, to make an assessment. But it is not, and very few football clubs are roughly the same, so I don't think what has been paid for a club in the past is that reliable a guide.

The available shares have a nominal price of £1 but would never go for such a low amount. But it also needs to be borne in mind that any investment that  involved buying not even that big a chunk of the one million would turn S&J's sake into a minority one, unless they also bought some.

One point about the fund with assets of $25bn. Unless you are Robert Maxwell with the Mirror pension fund that figure doesn't really equate to available dosh...

[Mello Yello 2,293]

Just now, Herman said:

"What made you sell Delia?"

"W*nkstains!!"

You can be the resident catch cloth....

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,415]

4 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

I probably will. What way will you lean then Mr. Sparrow?

I'd need to see a bit more detail, and listen to all the arguments. 

[Badger 2,405]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

I will just place on record, this news has totally blown me away! 🤯 It may come to nothing, but initially it does seem a good fit, but one I did not foresee as possible until the club was facing a financial crisis.  We live and learn.

My thoughts exactly - I am very surprised and wondered whether D+ M are giving them "a good price" to make the deal more attractive (hence the question about shareholders)? I can't see why else they would pay more for us than another club which they could get cheaper and possibly with more potential - Sunderland for example.

[HazzaJet 252]

5 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Well according to The Cook, ............'any offer to buy the club' (IF indeed this is the intention) would be put to a supporters vote' so it will be our fault (as usual) if it goes ahead and then **** up!

Well I don’t think I’d vote, in case I voted on the winning side and it turned out to be a big mistake. Have never voted in a general election for precisely the same reason 

[astro 360]

Pre-game ‘on the ball city’ to be replaced by ‘the star spangled banner’, stadium to be renamed the Brewbuc County Superdome, and the new team shorts to have loops for those little towel things to hang on….but at least the hot dogs will increase in size 👍

Edited May 27, 2022 by astro

[Mello Yello 2,293]

SOCCER KICKY FOOTBALL COMES TO CARRA.....

[WD40 720]

Get it done. 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,415]

I know it's been asked before, many moons ago. But what is my one ordinary share worth (if anything) or is it just a token thing 🤔

[hogesar 9,672]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

My thoughts exactly - I am very surprised and wondered whether D+ M are giving them "a good price" to make the deal more attractive (hence the question about shareholders)? I can't see why else they would pay more for us than another club which they could get cheaper and possibly with more potential - Sunderland for example.

If so, plenty on here would owe both D & M some fairly substantial apologies...

But I do agree that would be a logical concept, as like you say, we are not 'distressed'. I also wonder if our closeness to the Premier League, i.e being a season away potentially, helps for any sort of brand recognition or exposure they might be looking for.

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

11 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

@Badger

I will just place on record, this news has totally blown me away! 🤯 It may come to nothing, but initially it does seem a good fit, but one I did not foresee as possible until the club was facing a financial crisis.  We live and learn.

Agree with this. I'll be honest I'm one of the ones Hoggy refers to when he says there are those of us that didn't think Delia would be interested in this sort of deal, delighted that I appear to be wrong. 

I'll also say as a counter I've said for ages this is exactly the sort of deal or partnership I thought was realistic for us and what I would be looking for us to achieve, I said many times I wasn't demanding we become the next Man City or the like. 

Genuinely excited by this. 

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If so, plenty on here would owe both D & M some fairly substantial apologies...

But I do agree that would be a logical concept, as like you say, we are not 'distressed'. I also wonder if our closeness to the Premier League, i.e being a season away potentially, helps for any sort of brand recognition or exposure they might be looking for.

Josh Sargent? It's not that far from where he was born.

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

17 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Badger, that raises the question of what is the market value of the club! If the club was traded on a stock market it would be easy, or easier, to make an assessment. But it is not, and very few football clubs are roughly the same, so I don't think what has been paid for a club in the past is that reliable a guide.

The available shares have a nominal price of £1 but would never go for such a low amount. But it also needs to be borne in mind that any investment that  involved buying not even that big a chunk of the one million would turn S&J's sake into a minority one, unless they also bought some.

One point about the fund with assets of $25bn. Unless you are Robert Maxwell with the Mirror pension fund that figure doesn't really equate to available dosh...

I hadn't seen those figures on twitter when I posted. As it says if all 1m shares were bought that would give the investors a comfortable majority holding and massively reduce S&J's percentage. However,; and this gets very nerdy, it does appear that if the investors did that they would have to make an offer for everybody's shares. But this may be getting ahead of itself. This could be significant minority investment.

There is no need for shareholders to approve the sale of any of these shares. The question is much more what the price would be. And as has also been mentioned, there is the Delia promise to give fans the last word...

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

59 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Got up at 5 AM to watch it before work. What did you think? After being disappointed with most of the Disney era Star Wars I actually loved it.

5am? Now that's commitment.

Yeah, thoroughly enjoyed it too. Saved the second part for tomorrow.

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

I am absolutely baffled by this. I must admit to having a certain amount of distrust of American investors but it may be for the good. 

However, the club has been very careful to say that it is talks about investment, not a sale. It is highly unlikely that Smith and Jones are selling all their shares and I strongly suspect that they will still be the biggest individual shareholders. 

That leaves the question of why? What on earth is their interest? 

Very perplexing and definitely not something to get over excited about. Yet. 

[baldy09 156]

What now-  NO Delias pies and a milky ,Luke warm tea, buying American footballers gum cards with a strong black coffee . simply wont do 😛

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

36 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

I know it's been asked before, many moons ago. But what is my one ordinary share worth (if anything) or is it just a token thing 🤔

I’d like to know the answer to that question too

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

20 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I hadn't seen those figures on twitter when I posted. As it says if all 1m shares were bought that would give the investors a comfortable majority holding and massively reduce S&J's percentage. However,; and this gets very nerdy, it does appear that if the investors did that they would have to make an offer for everybody's shares. But this may be getting ahead of itself. This could be significant minority investment.

There is no need for shareholders to approve the sale of any of these shares. The question is much more what the price would be. And as has also been mentioned, there is the Delia promise to give fans the last word...

I don't know for sure but I don't think they have to offer to buy everyone's shares unless they buy a controlling interest. Which they're not. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

I’d like to know the answer to that question too

I suspect about £30 for one share but this transaction could dilute that. And they're not easy to sell if you only have a few. 

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

1 minute ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I don't know for sure but I don't think they have to offer to buy everyone's shares unless they buy a controlling interest. Which they're not. 

Under normal circumstances anyone who gets to only 30 per cent of the total has to make an offer for the rest. The question is whether this still applies if someone is buying new shares, and opposed to existing ones. I believe it does, without being certain.

By the way, can other pink un app posters get into the extra coverage promised on the app? I can access the other subscriber exclusive stuff there  but nothing extra on the investment.

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

Sorry everyone, the deal is off 

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

2 hours ago, Heading South said:

And there’s us laughing at the Binners for going down this road a year ago …….. !

We just laughed at them going down 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,220]

55 minutes ago, Badger said:

My thoughts exactly - I am very surprised and wondered whether D+ M are giving them "a good price" to make the deal more attractive (hence the question about shareholders)? I can't see why else they would pay more for us than another club which they could get cheaper and possibly with more potential - Sunderland for example.

The corporate finance issue was- is the theoretical profit gain on D&Ms shares as we have discussed many times previously. 

This ‘canard’ can be overcome by numerous methods, though it would involve likely compromise from D&M, which they would only likely do if the position was very weak or the offer - and its structure - was considered overwhelmingly beneficial to the club. 

This bridging step could certainly be a wonderful, generous legacy from them, as they could - as they have stated - hand on such a gain to Nephew or other.  This always looked a little unlikely, tarnishing even, though this intervention from America - whilst not ‘camels down Carrow Road’ - must surely be influenced by the rather categoric evidence that we struggle to be competitive at the current top level under the self-sustaining model. 

There is quite a difference between ‘maybe’ and models being rather clearly shown not to work after good, professional efforts. 

My guess would be that this outcome has been long mooted and discussed, however informally. It becomes more attractive - or is activated or catalysed - upon ‘events, dear boy, events’ as is always the case. 

To repeat, if D&M have de facto foregone some of their asset gain - in whatever structural format - they deserve enormous credit and gratitude. That is a great and deserved legacy for them if it is the case.

Parma 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

55 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

In my many trips to the US of A....Their folk (especially Ladies) aren't happy with people using that particular word...

(The F word is pretty popular though....especially with the American Forces)....well popular with the majority of folk...

I read one of Bill Bryson's books and he listed a few place names in the US that had Cnut in the name.

Mrs KG does not likethe word either. And neither does Webber apparently. 

[BigFish 1,987]

25 minutes ago, Badger said:

My thoughts exactly - I am very surprised and wondered whether D+ M are giving them "a good price" to make the deal more attractive (hence the question about shareholders)? I can't see why else they would pay more for us than another club which they could get cheaper and possibly with more potential - Sunderland for example.

Football clubs pricing is difficult in an imperfect market @Badger, but it shouldn't be impossible to work out a "fair" price that in three bears parlance was neither too hot or too cold. Potential is priced in, as is the spend required to meet this potential. We have a squad that with one or two additions should get them to the EPL. Sunderland have higher potential but require significant upgrading on a team that squeeked into the Chumps from the play-offs. Burnley went for a reputed £200 million, but were seemingly established in the Prem and willing to indulge in financial engineering to make a takeover. These don't apply to NCFC, which marks down the price and makes the club more attractive. FPA can make their own estimates.

(Although I can't resist for arguments sake: if the deal was conditional on no financial engineering and taking relegation into account perhaps the club is worth £100 million, the Yanks could buy £40 million worth of "free" shares and still be under the magic 29% threshold that would require the offer to all shareholders, S&J would remain the major shareholders @36% but the Yanks get a seat on the board)

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

Yanks buy the club for £100m, Delia and MWJ donate £75m back to the club for a new “Delia MWJ” stand to replace the City stand and a bunch of other permanent improvements. They double their wealth at the stroke of a pen, while immediately neutering the arguments of people complaining that she said she never wanted to turn a profit on the club. The Yanks come in, bolster the playing squad, we get promoted…

…Champions League 2030 winners. Mark my words! Maybe. 😜 

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

2 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

The corporate finance issue will is the theoretical profit gain on D&Ms shares as we have discussed many times previously. 

This ‘canard’ can be overcome by numerous methods, though it would involve likely compromise from D&M, which they would only likely do if the position was very weak or the offer - and it’s structure - was considered overwhelmingly beneficial to the club. 

This bridging step could certainly be a wonderful, generous legacy from them, as they could - as they have stated - hand on such a gain to Nephew or other.  This always looked a little unlikely, tarnishing even, though this intervention from America - whilst not ‘camels down Carrow Road’ - must surely be influenced by the rather categoric evidence that we struggle to be competitive at the current top level under the self-sustaining model. 

There is quite a difference between ‘maybe’ and models being rather clearly shown not to work after good, professional efforts. 

My guess would be that this outcome has been long mooted and discussed, however informally. It becomes more attractive - or is activated or catalysed - upon ‘events, dear boy, events’ as is always the case. 

To repeat, if D&M have de facto foregone some of their asset gain - in whatever structural format - they deserve enormous credit and gratitude. That is a great and deserved legacy for them if it is the case.

Parma 

Parma, yes, I suspect so, and yes, but the latter shouldn't be a surprise - if it happens. The truth is Delia said a long time ago they would be prepared to give the club away for nothing if the right offer came along. But it didn't fit some narratives and fixed positions. That said, with any foregoing of their asset gains there are potentially some problems to be overcome in terms of an adverse knock-on effect on the other shareholders.