EXCLUSIVE: US tycoons in Norwich City investment talks

[Captain Holt 522]

I see this clown was wrong yet again.

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Well we don't really know do we? This investor in Palace bought 18% which is about the same stake as Foulger's shares and has since increased that stake.  

The report states that the investment had given the club funds to spend in the transfer window. Buying Foulgers shares does nothing in this respect.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

Delia is hoping the investment gets us up again and then helps us stay there... at which point her shares are worth more than if she were to take a bid right now. Backs up what I've said all along this thread, part of Delia's reluctance to sell through the years has been financial. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Worthy Nigelton

[The Real Buh 3,454]

1 minute ago, Ren said:

I just don't buy into that location argument one jot.  Look how many other clubs outside of London have changed hands in the football league and even outside - its most of them! 

There’s always varying reasons I’d say. You have factors like historically big clubs falling on hard times meaning they can be bought up for cheap, cities with upward mobility and cash being put into them by the government even good transport links. When someone is putting money into a club it’s a package thing. All these concerns will be looked at. I’d argue NCFC fall and Norfolk in general falls into a dark area. Just sort of tucked away a bit. Don’t hit as many points as other places.

[Robert N. LiM 4,458]

38 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

think delias past her sell by date, we need new and significant investment and I can’t see much wrong with these guys apart from the cultural differences.

A way fuller reply than my sarky question deserved. Cheers.

[The Real Buh 3,454]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

A way fuller reply than my sarky question deserved. Cheers.

Lol, it’s not like they are a slimy oil and weapons bunch or slinging crypto and nft’s. Just look like generic American sports team owner bunch to me unless anyone else has found anything?

[king canary 7,651]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The report states that the investment had given the club funds to spend in the transfer window. Buying Foulgers shares does nothing in this respect.

Yes but that doesn't mean that is all they are doing.

According to the accounts Foulger owns 98200 ordinary shares. There has been some talk of shares at £100- that suggests buying him out would only cost just under £10m. I'd agree with @PurpleCanary that it seems unlikely these guys would plan to just chuck £10m at some shares without some further investment into the club.

[GMF 756]

35 minutes ago, king canary said:

Did the Turners actually buy shares? I just remember talk of a £2m loan. 

They acquired 5,000 shares from Barry Lockwood (I think) which they still have.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The wanting to take Foulgers % isn't conjecture from The Athletic, it's 100% accurate.

It's also seen as their first venture into English football, a starting point and building a relationship with D & M. Apparently.

This is an interesting take.

That we've had one individual show significant interest in the past 10 years, of which we don't know if we chased down, harried or their personal / commercial reasons for potentially investing, indicates there is suddenly a queue of people looking at us as an opportunity is certainly pushing the boundaries of massive assumption.

To claim the fanbase is more ambitious than our current ownership is also rubbish, since it's under the current ownership that potentially this investment has been found. Had the fans gone and found the investment for the club you might have a point. The fans painted on an old duvet instead.

The fans will always be the most ambitious people for a football club because fans are generally deluded about the size and potential of their team.... but your point is weird - when has a fan ever sought out investment in a club? How would they even do that without knowing intricate balance sheet and legal details? I couldn't rock up to Mr Billionaire and say "Come buy Norwich mate, you'd bloody love it actually" and the next day it's done. I know you're pro-Delia in the extreme but come on.

You don't know we've only had one potential suitor in xx years. Just one you know of, so that is also an assumption.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Yes but that doesn't mean that is all they are doing.

According to the accounts Foulger owns 98200 ordinary shares. There has been some talk of shares at £100- that suggests buying him out would only cost just under £10m. I'd agree with @PurpleCanary that it seems unlikely these guys would plan to just chuck £10m at some shares without some further investment into the club.

I doubt it would cost £10m to buy Foulger out. It’s a minority stake and he may well be keen to cash in. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,769]

I just hope that '18 percent' becomes a running meme/joke on here for years to come

Edited May 31, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[Ren 75]

14 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

There’s always varying reasons I’d say. You have factors like historically big clubs falling on hard times meaning they can be bought up for cheap, cities with upward mobility and cash being put into them by the government even good transport links. When someone is putting money into a club it’s a package thing. All these concerns will be looked at. I’d argue NCFC fall and Norfolk in general falls into a dark area. Just sort of tucked away a bit. Don’t hit as many points as other places.

Id counter argue that saying that we are a one county club, a city that is growing at a rapid rate, with a higher than average disposable incomes, plus a very loyal fan base that sells out all the time, however low we sink.  This club has a lot more potential than many give it credit for.  I highly doubt that there have been no expressions of interest in the last 10 years or so. 

[king canary 7,651]

9 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I doubt it would cost £10m to buy Foulger out. It’s a minority stake and he may well be keen to cash in. 

Obviously I've got no idea- I just did amount of shares x £100 to get to that price. It may be he's happy to take less per share, which would make sense if the talk of general financial issues is correct.

[A Load of Squit 5,201]

If we were still a Premier league club then it may have been more likely that they would go all in but it makes sense for them to take this stake and see where we are at the end of next season. Further investment could be on the provision that we get promoted.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

1 hour ago, GMF said:

Makes perfect sense. Gives D&M the opportunity to work with them for a period of time too.

Would also imagine the US boys would seek some comfort to acquire D&M’s shares at some point in the future, rather than them automatically defaulting into a trust, which restricted Tom’s ability to deal with them.

Agree with this. I'd mentioned that Attenasio seemed to have experience of a similar position when he took over the Brewers, so this would be a nice foot in the door for him to pick up a bit more about football, then if he's ready and willing, make more moves.

[The Real Buh 3,454]

1 minute ago, Ren said:

Id counter argue that saying that we are a one county club, a city that is growing at a rapid rate, with a higher than average disposable incomes, plus a very loyal fan base that sells out all the time, however low we sink.  This club has a lot more potential than many give it credit for.  I highly doubt that there have been no expressions of interest in the last 10 years or so. 

Listen, I love this county. I love Norwich I think it’s a fantastic city, balanced with urban and rural areas, it’s awesome! But I think people either think of the Alan partridge “bit of a joke” version of Norwich or they simply don’t even really know. Norwich and Norfolk are here. There may or may not have been interest but the minute there was interest it leaked to the papers so… maybe there wasn’t? It’s not truly scientific but I found that population increase wise Norwich is 25th in the UK, not bad but not amazing. Middle of the road. Norwich and Norfolk seems to have an involuntary built in cloaking mechanism

[lake district canary 4,541]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Sounds much more like a first step to me. There's no point (for him, or for NCFC) in Attanasio buying Foulger's shares and leaving it at that. Surely the most likely scenario is that he does so to join the board, get a sense of the business with a view to further investment (hopefully via new shares) later on.

Yes, I agree. It's like a process that would be set in motion that would mean a strong connection with these American guys who have proven experience in their field and who will be influential for us as the club moves forwards - and who have the potential to buy more shares later on.

My question would be how much they would be able to put in to the club on top of their buying shares. If it is around £10m for the shares, will they also put some money in for players, maybe as a director's loan?  Would seem to be the obvious thing to do to demonstrate their intent to have an influence straight away. 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,570]

19 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I doubt it would cost £10m to buy Foulger out. It’s a minority stake and he may well be keen to cash in. 

Given that Kieran Maguire quoted an estimated outright market value of the club of about £100m, it follows that Foulger's shares would be worth around £15-20m. As you say though, if he's desperate then I suppose he could go for less. 

[king canary 7,651]

20 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

The fans will always be the most ambitious people for a football club because fans are generally deluded about the size and potential of their team.... but your point is weird - when has a fan ever sought out investment in a club? How would they even do that without knowing intricate balance sheet and legal details? I couldn't rock up to Mr Billionaire and say "Come buy Norwich mate, you'd bloody love it actually" and the next day it's done. I know you're pro-Delia in the extreme but come on.

You don't know we've only had one potential suitor in xx years. Just one you know of, so that is also an assumption.

For some reason this became a favoured talking point of some a little while ago- I agree its an entirely bizarre idea but we had some suggesting the fans should be taking out ads in the Financial Times to try and sell a club they don't own...

[PurpleCanary 5,578]

29 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I doubt it would cost £10m to buy Foulger out. It’s a minority stake and he may well be keen to cash in. 

I have no idea what it would cost, but it needs to be borne in mind that if Attanasio later bought shares that broke the 30 per cent mark then whatever he had paid to Foulger could in effectset the price he would have to offer to everyone else.

[Monty13 2,240]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

I make Foulger’s holding to be 15.9 per cent rather than 18 per cent, but there may be a family wrinkle there. Anyway, gratified to see posters coming over all depressed, in the style of Marvin the Paranoid Android.

I do not believe Attanasio would be going to so much trouble, with a seven-man delegation etc, if all he ever intended to do - and all he thought he would ever be allowed to do - would be to buy some shares that put zero pounds into the club and perhaps have a board member who could always be outvoted…

While that’s true Purple, if he is only taking over Foulger’s shares it does likely mean two things to me.

If a deal goes ahead it’s unlikely to translate to any immediate influence on the football finances and also we are looking at potentially a long period of assessment before any further changes may occur, and those aren’t guaranteed.

I think it’s understandable people are reducing in excitement. 

Maybe he’s planning on a Director loan as well but personally I just can’t see why he would before he got his hands on a larger percentage of the business, he’d be funding an increased price of any takeover.

[shefcanary 2,437]

The Pink'Un are now quoting:

The report claims that early discussions between all parties have been positive and that joint majority shareholders Delia Smith and Michael Wynn Jones wish to retain their 53 per cent holding in Norwich. It is unclear at this stage whether Attanasio, 64, would look to take on a larger share of the club in the future. Attanasio is a multi-millionaire businessman, who purchased the Brewers in 2004 for a reported $223 million, and is also the part-owner of Milwaukee Admirals. 

The Pink Un exclusively broke how Attanasio’s delegation at the Spurs game included his two sons, Mike, who was sporting a Norwich scarf, and Dan, David Stearns, president of baseball operations for the Milwaukee Brewers, Dan Fumai, chief financial officer at the Milwaukee Brewers and Rick Schlesinger, president of business operations for the Brewers.  Also among the delegation was Richard Ressler, a minority stakeholder at the Brewers and on the advisory board. He is a close friend of Attanasio and goes back to Brown University with the multi-millionaire.  City have declined to comment when approached whilst a spokesman for Attanasio has also contacted for comment. 

I'm going out on a limb here and saying I don't buy this.  Attanasio has gone to an awful lot of trouble just to buy out Foulger's shares, without a promise of greater control; from a hard headed business person's point of view it makes no sense.  It is a senseless gamble (much like my own on the horses, where I never look at form, keep my fingers crossed).  I say again, all this public show of welcome with all his operational staff in tow shows a much deeper investment planned than just buying out one shareholder.  Is this a line fed to the Athletic to throw us all off the scent again (or maybe to throw prospective selling clubs off trying to negotiate larger fees)? 🤔  This development is even more unlikely than Attanasio's interest in the club in the first place.

[A Load of Squit 5,201]

Interesting twitter conv. between Mick & Rob Emery.

 

[Mr Angry 1,570]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I think it is a case that the current economic situation makes the usual pricing beyond quite a few people, especially when the cheaper seats sell out

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/lords-empty-seats-jubilee-tickets-27109455

 

Also possibly the price of drinks at the ground is putting people off! My brother is going on Friday with pre-mixed gin and tonic disguised as some sort of soft drink.

[SwindonCanary 455]

so it looks like Delia and M. W Jones want to remain in control,  still holding onto their shares. I can't see them putting too much into the club for only 18% of the shares.

Edited May 31, 2022 by SwindonCanary

[Duncan Edwards 2,256]

21 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

so it looks like Delia and M. W Jones want to remain in control,  still holding onto their shares. I can't see them putting too much into the club for only 18% of the shares.

All about the prestige and celebrity of being on the board with Delia. 

[kdncfc 27]

1 hour ago, Captain Holt said:

I see this clown was wrong yet again.

I thought seby b had been right on many occasions, it could be the athletic has it wrong.

[Badger 2,407]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

A quote from a Sky Sports article about their latest US investor...

Crystal Palace have announced new investment in the club from American businessman John Textor.

 

I know about Textor, but there are no accounts yet, so we don't know if he has put any new money in or whether it is a loan. It's probable that some of it is purchase of shares from existing shareholders + possibly "taking over" their director's loans. I very much doubt that there will be anything like £87 million in new cash for palace

Palace have some form on this: in 2015 Palace announced a £50 million "investment" which turned out to be buying shares from an existing shareholders and some director's loans (as above). https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/18/crystal-palace-us-investment-josh-harris

We can't know for certain what the situation is until the accounts are published, but we do know that Palace borrowed money using the ground and training ground as security in January 2022,  which is quite normal but doesn't suggest that they are cash rich.

(https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07270793/charges/uNM6HdEPGAxw3c6OfNx84Zis5VE)

Shef (a real accountant) and I discussed this back in march and he did some investigative work - it turns out that Parrish's investment in Palace is through his Smoke and Mirrors group ltd.

 

 

[Badger 2,407]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Enjoy it, but don't expect Edgbaston which I think is the closest you'll get to a football atmosphere in a cricket ground. Or perhaps I just went on a good day. 

Yes - in the Hollies stand, where the Barmy Army sit. I went to the day-night test that they tried a few years ago and they were so drunk by close of play. "It's not cricket, sir!"

[hogesar 9,715]

I think if anyone was suddenly expecting a complete takeover they're probably living in the same clouds where there's 100 billionaires waiting to get involved if this doesn't take off..