Webber to go this week.

[nutty nigel 7,656]

To be fair Webber hasnt suddenly changed. In 2018 he was at loggerheads with the fans for booing and suggested they didn't know good football. But when we started winning this appeared to be forgiven.

Results, not events, will ultimately seal his fate. If they haven't already.

[yellowrider120 797]

16 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Well much the opposite actually, if they get rid of Webber they're then the one's open for criticism if anything. Webber stays and the focus will primarily be on them.

Isn't that exactly what Pricey said?

[Mello Yello 2,315]

"See yah....Wouldn't like to be yah!"......

[Icecream Snow 762]

15 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I have sympathy with Webber because to do otherwise is to admit Norwich’s ceiling. The very little-old-Norwich mentality he came to overturn.  

And yet the mountain is large. And familiar to many of us. 

So the fault is Webber’s. And yet it isn’t. And Farke was perhaps our apotheosis. Yet you can’t admit that. And Smith couldn’t and hasn’t done any better. Yet he might have. 

Oh dear. It is about the money then. 

Parma

I think the defining moment was McNally's inability to establish us as a Premier league club. I'm not saying Webber hasn't made mistakes, but by the time he took over, we had an average salary of 28k in the Championship, one year left of parachute payments, and had to replace almost the entire squad because we couldn't afford to keep any of them.

Crystal Palace went up with Hull in 2013, and Palace had stayed in the premiership since. That third year when we spent the money on RVW and others and got relegated I think is worse than anything Webber's done.

 

we even managed a second chance in 2016

[Capt. Pants 4,325]

Remarkable how quickly he crumpled at two fans holding a duvet. If he's still here by the next home game and we get trounced again it will get very nasty.

Get rid now.

Whilst he's done good things for the club he's never really been that popular with the fans. Many referred to him as a fraud, a charlatan; bang on the money.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,601]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

What is true is that S&J hate the general good name of the club being damaged. This was certainly the case when the club was - I think for the first time in its history - charged with breaking the ethics rules over the poaching of Lambert and his team from Colchester. That went down very badly with them. I can well believe the sight of Webber in a public row with supporters will have equally annoyed them. At the least I would expect Webber to have to make a public apology.

Davitt thinks Webber is probably staying. No mention of hearing anything about him leaving.

[norfolkngood 1,095]

47 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

If we finish on more than 21 points technically this Prem season is more successful than the last time we were there… 

Very True but if you look what we spent to get 21 points (sweet FA  )and what we spent this season i would say this season for the club  has been less successful 

[canarydan23 4,120]

You can't down play his achievements because he's got a nasty, slightly unbalanced edge to him. At the end of the day we were a basket case of a club with a perilous balance sheet when he came him. Farke was his appointment and it gave us two incredible league-winning promotion seasons.

The problem is, like we see with players all the time, he's out of his depth in the EPL. First time round we took the money and ran and I understood the virtues of doing so. This time round we spent some moolah and actually made the team worse than it was when we were competing in a division lower. We recruited players who couldn't fit into our four-year old system, forcing (with or without Farke's blessing, we might not ever find out) a complete change that didn't really work. It's telling that when we went back to the 4-2-3-1 versus Brentford we got our first win. What was also reassuring about that performance was that we were also able to go backs to the wall and defend for our lives in that final half hour. We saw good Farkeball combined with grit.

But then Mr Webber denied us all the opportunity to see whether we'd turned a corner and in doing so proved to us all that it was the squad, not the manager, that was relegating us.

It doesn't seem a popular opinion on here, but in the pub on Saturday and among a couple of my Norwich-supporting colleagues there is a consensus that sacking Farke after Brentford was pretty stupid. I know it ultimately resulted in relegation, but Nigel Worthington didn't get us a win until a few weeks later in the 2004/05 season and we still came within a whisker of staying up. It can't be proven so it's an easy thing to say, but I think a similar thing would have happened with Farke post-Brentford. Probably have still gone down, but with more of a fight than we've seen.

Either way, this season's failure is on Webber and it looks like he knows it given how he's seemingly cracking under pressure.

[canarydan23 4,120]

5 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Very True but if you look what we spent to get 21 points (sweet FA  )and what we spent this season i would say this season for the club  has been less successful 

Spot on.

[Norfolk Dan 308]

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy

 

Just been Quoted by Parma. Finally reaching the upper echelons of this forum, my 90% forum focus and effort must be paying off. Time to hang the keyboard up? 

 

 

 

 

[Google Bot 3,385]

2 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Very True but if you look what we spent to get 21 points (sweet FA  )and what we spent this season i would say this season for the club  has been less successful 

The most indicative measure for me is what our starting line up is next season.  Previously prem league season we stuck with our style and beliefs and following relegation we encouraged Skipp to join the fight, and held on to performing players like Aarons, Emi, Pukki and Cantwell.

Points aside, it feels that we've lost far more structurally this season, and as a result it's been a calamity.  Take Normann out, and where's the spine to build on?

[PurpleCanary 5,601]

4 minutes ago, Norfolk Dan said:

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy

 

Just been Quoted by Parma. Finally reaching the upper echelons of this forum, my 90% forum focus and effort must be paying off. Time to hang the keyboard up? 

 

 

 

 

You’re not qualified for the top tier until you’ve been quoted by Parma disapprovingly as well as approvingly…🤩

[BigFish 1,988]

28 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

I think the defining moment was McNally's inability to establish us as a Premier league club. I'm not saying Webber hasn't made mistakes, but by the time he took over, we had an average salary of 28k in the Championship, one year left of parachute payments, and had to replace almost the entire squad because we couldn't afford to keep any of them.

Crystal Palace went up with Hull in 2013, and Palace had stayed in the premiership since. That third year when we spent the money on RVW and others and got relegated I think is worse than anything Webber's done.

 

we even managed a second chance in 2016

Interesting looking at the names in those tables, of the 13 clubs at the bottom in 2013, 6 played this season in the Chumps, 1 in League 1 and we are getting relegated. Of the 9 on 2016 list , 3 played this year in the Chumps, 1 in League 1 & 2 are getting relegated.

Rather dispels the myth that is becoming an established EPL team or that the club is particularly underperforming.

[hogesar 9,808]

45 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Isn't that exactly what Pricey said?

Sorry should have said *him*

[Foxy2600 306]

38 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Davitt thinks Webber is probably staying. No mention of hearing anything about him leaving.

Well either way his Missus will still be there 🤣

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,246]

40 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

You can't down play his achievements because he's got a nasty, slightly unbalanced edge to him. At the end of the day we were a basket case of a club with a perilous balance sheet when he came him. Farke was his appointment and it gave us two incredible league-winning promotion seasons.

The problem is, like we see with players all the time, he's out of his depth in the EPL. First time round we took the money and ran and I understood the virtues of doing so. This time round we spent some moolah and actually made the team worse than it was when we were competing in a division lower. We recruited players who couldn't fit into our four-year old system, forcing (with or without Farke's blessing, we might not ever find out) a complete change that didn't really work. It's telling that when we went back to the 4-2-3-1 versus Brentford we got our first win. What was also reassuring about that performance was that we were also able to go backs to the wall and defend for our lives in that final half hour. We saw good Farkeball combined with grit.

But then Mr Webber denied us all the opportunity to see whether we'd turned a corner and in doing so proved to us all that it was the squad, not the manager, that was relegating us.

It doesn't seem a popular opinion on here, but in the pub on Saturday and among a couple of my Norwich-supporting colleagues there is a consensus that sacking Farke after Brentford was pretty stupid. I know it ultimately resulted in relegation, but Nigel Worthington didn't get us a win until a few weeks later in the 2004/05 season and we still came within a whisker of staying up. It can't be proven so it's an easy thing to say, but I think a similar thing would have happened with Farke post-Brentford. Probably have still gone down, but with more of a fight than we've seen.

Either way, this season's failure is on Webber and it looks like he knows it given how he's seemingly cracking under pressure.

Again I think much of this is reasonable supposition. Again Webber couldn’t let it play out because to do so was to admit the recruitment was to blame. He wasn’t ready to do that. Now there is no hiding place, not even up a big mountain. 

Again I have sympathy with Webber. I think he is hurting. He took the lead and he has failed professionally. That is very painful. He took his best swing too, it was his McNally (Klose-Pinto-Naismith) moment that has not worked out. History repeateth. He cannot beat the market. Hard for him. 

However, if the purpose of the Sporting Director is to smooth out the peaks, retain the identity, build on the previous 4 years, make the manager the expendable lightning rod on the ISO:9001 conveyor belt of progression, then we are not quite there either are we? 

Anybody who sells the only weapon Buendia, thus castrating the half-weapon Pukki, does not replace the absolutely fundamental structural fulcrum that was Skipp, de-facto switching to a Gilmour-sized non-defensive metronome designed to operate in space that would-could never be available to an inferior side, spending the vast majority of the limited funds on wingers which also can never be operated tactically in a top-tier side that will inevitably come under strong press, thus inevitably creating a weaker top division side than the lower division side that preceded it, is pathetically poor. And obvious proctor hoc. 

Parma

Edited April 25, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Danke bitte 967]

2 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Again I think much of this is reasonable supposition. Again Webber couldn’t let it play out because to do so was to admit the recruitment was to blame. He wasn’t ready to do that. Now there is no hiding place, not even up a big mountain. 

Again I have sympathy with Webber. I think he is hurting. He took the lead and he has failed professionally. That is very painful. He took his best swing too, it was his McNally (Klose-Pinto-Naismith) moment that has not worked out. History repeateth. He cannot beat the market. Hard for him. 

However, if the purpose of the Sporting Director is to smooth out the peaks, retain the identity, build on the previous 4 years, make the manager the expendable lightning rod on the ISO:9001 conveyor belt of progression, then we are not quite there either are we? 

Anybody who sells the only weapon Buendia, thus castrating the half-weapon Pukki, does not replace the absolutely fundamental structural fulcrum that was Skipp, de-facto switching to a Gilmour-sized non-defensive metronome designed to operate in space that would-could never be available to an inferior side, spending the vast majority of the limited funds on wingers which also can never be operated tactically in a top-tier side that will inevitably come under strong press, thus inevitably creating a weaker top division side than the lower division side that preceded it, is pathetically poor. And obvious proctor hoc. 

Parma

In short, he’s had a crack twice the second time with substantial £ and dropped the ball. The one thing I think Mr Webber is severally guilty of is opening his mouth to the media, and by that I mean to wax lyrical about establishing Norwich and beating down on previous regimes. He looks foolish for doing so now. 

For a man of his intellect he doesn’t half put his foot in it. Diplomacy isn’t his strong point it seems.

[komakino 275]

5 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

In short, he’s had a crack twice the second time with substantial £ and dropped the ball. The one thing I think Mr Webber is severally guilty of is opening his mouth to the media, and by that I mean to wax lyrical about establishing Norwich and beating down on previous regimes. He looks foolish for doing so now. 

For a man of his intellect he doesn’t half put his foot in it. Diplomacy isn’t his strong point it seems.

If he worked for a blue chip company, this would be gross misconduct as in this case he has brought 'the brand' (NCFC) into disrepute. 

He reminds me of these people who go on endless courses and think they know everything. 

We should be reminded that only last year he said ' he was just passing through' Norwich City, which I though was an arrogant comment to make and wanted to work in Europe. As he's too old for Club 18-30, his options are limited. 

[Nuff Said 5,240]

27 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Anybody who sells the only weapon Buendia, thus castrating the half-weapon Pukki, does not replace the absolutely fundamental structural fulcrum that was Skipp, de-facto switching to a Gilmour-sized non-defensive metronome designed to operate in space that would-could never be available to an inferior side, spending the vast majority of the limited funds on wingers which also can never be operated tactically in a top-tier side that will inevitably come under strong press, thus inevitably creating a weaker top division side than the lower division side that preceded it, is pathetically poor. And obvious proctor hoc. 

Parma

How much of that was Webber though, and how much was Farke? A rhetorical question obviously. 
 

28 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

However, if the purpose of the Sporting Director is to smooth out the peaks, retain the identity, build on the previous 4 years, make the manager the expendable lightning rod on the ISO:9001 conveyor belt of progression, then we are not quite there either are we? 

Succession planning is for me the key to deciding how successful Webber, or any “charismatic” CEO-type figure in a similar role, has been. If we can appoint a replacement (assuming he does go) and we continue managing the model with positive results, then he will be seen as having done a decent job. If it all falls apart, then history will he just got short-term lucky with some signings when he started.

[Badger 2,414]

The interview was a massive gaffe and the behaviour after the match was unprofessional: neither can really be defended so I would not be at all surprised if he were to leave.

Unlike others, however, I feel his overall record at the club has been a good one and am not sure his departure is an unquestionably good thing for team performance next year. 

[king canary 7,703]

50 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Interesting looking at the names in those tables, of the 13 clubs at the bottom in 2013, 6 played this season in the Chumps, 1 in League 1 and we are getting relegated. Of the 9 on 2016 list , 3 played this year in the Chumps, 1 in League 1 & 2 are getting relegated.

Rather dispels the myth that is becoming an established EPL team or that the club is particularly underperforming.

Kind of, kind of not.

Of those teams in the intervening years from 2013 I'd take a stab that most of them have achieved more than a single season in a row in the top flight.

Yes it is true that becoming fully 'established' is nigh-on impossible but the failure to even stay up once since the 2013 relegation is still a disappointment. 

[komakino 275]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

The interview was a massive gaffe and the behaviour after the match was unprofessional: neither can really be defended so I would not be at all surprised if he were to leave.

Unlike others, however, I feel his overall record at the club has been a good one and am not sure his departure is an unquestionably good thing for team performance next year. 

As a business owner, the question I would be asking myself is 'Would I want someone like him working for me?'. His behaviour alone would mean the answer would be an emphatic 'no'. He's become a liability and we know what happens to those. 

[(Hoola)Han Solo 324]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Kind of, kind of not.

Of those teams in the intervening years from 2013 I'd take a stab that most of them have achieved more than a single season in a row in the top flight.

Yes it is true that becoming fully 'established' is nigh-on impossible but the failure to even stay up once since the 2013 relegation is still a disappointment. 

As a club we need to get out of this habit of saying “Well, X club has now been relegated”, as though it is some sort of excuse for these pitiful seasons. Yes, teams like Sheffield United, and maybe Brentford next year, go down, but they have at least one competitive season in which they stay up. Another excuse is the higher spending power of the rest of the league. Whilst this is patently a big issue and a problem in modern football, we must use our disadvantage as a motivating factor and have the determination to buck the trend. We sort of have a chip on our shoulder and ready made excuse. Brentford for me epitomise a no fear attitude and act as though they deserve to be here. They will probably get relegated at some point but at least they looked like a proper Premier League team in the meantime.

[komakino 275]

2 minutes ago, (Hoola)Han Solo said:

As a club we need to get out of this habit of saying “Well, X club has now been relegated”, as though it is some sort of excuse for these pitiful seasons. Yes, teams like Sheffield United, and maybe Brentford next year, go down, but they have at least one competitive season in which they stay up. Another excuse is the higher spending power of the rest of the league. Whilst this is patently a big issue and a problem in modern football, we must use our disadvantage as a motivating factor and have the determination to buck the trend. We sort of have a chip on our shoulder and ready made excuse. Brentford for me epitomise a no fear attitude and act as though they deserve to be here. They will probably get relegated at some point but at least they looked like a proper Premier League team in the meantime.

Excellent Post 👍

[yellowrider120 797]

7 minutes ago, (Hoola)Han Solo said:

As a club we need to get out of this habit of saying “Well, X club has now been relegated”, as though it is some sort of excuse for these pitiful seasons. Yes, teams like Sheffield United, and maybe Brentford next year, go down, but they have at least one competitive season in which they stay up. Another excuse is the higher spending power of the rest of the league. Whilst this is patently a big issue and a problem in modern football, we must use our disadvantage as a motivating factor and have the determination to buck the trend. We sort of have a chip on our shoulder and ready made excuse. Brentford for me epitomise a no fear attitude and act as though they deserve to be here. They will probably get relegated at some point but at least they looked like a proper Premier League team in the meantime.

Very true and that has everything to do with the useless owners who publicly espouse the 'little Norwich' syndrome. By the end of his tenure they even had Farke saying exactly the same sort of thing! Is it any wonder the players simply rolled over with no fight?

[(Hoola)Han Solo 324]

3 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Very true and that has everything to do with the useless owners who publicly espouse the 'little Norwich' syndrome. By the end of his tenure they even had Farke saying exactly the same sort of thing! Is it any wonder the players simply rolled over with no fight?

To be fair, Daniel Farke instilled a siege mentality into us that first Premier League season, with the win against Manchester City the peak. He was dressing it up as a fairytale and the whole club was as one. I felt nothing like that at the start of this season. I thought Farke almost started this season beat, as though the previous experience of the PL had broken him. We had a difficult start to the season but I didn’t feel much confidence exuding from him and his squad in the opening weeks. It was almost as they’d already accepted defeats early in the season, and I think that attitude has followed us for most of the season. 

[Danke bitte 967]

The above comments about the inferiority complex attitude at the club are also echoed by Davitt in the recent podcast on the EDP. I never thought about it like that before. The concept is an interesting one. 

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/canaries-ncfc-stuart-webber-pinkun-podcast-8917080

[Nuff Said 5,240]

24 minutes ago, king canary said:

Kind of, kind of not.

Of those teams in the intervening years from 2013 I'd take a stab that most of them have achieved more than a single season in a row in the top flight.

Yes it is true that becoming fully 'established' is nigh-on impossible but the failure to even stay up once since the 2013 relegation is still a disappointment. 

Staying up for a season or two is not “established”, which is BF’s point. 
 

Being disappointed we can’t manage a second season is different. Of course, we always want more. If we’d managed two seasons twice and then got relegated, people would be complaining that we can’t do three,

[Ian 1,141]

12 minutes ago, (Hoola)Han Solo said:

As a club we need to get out of this habit of saying “Well, X club has now been relegated”, as though it is some sort of excuse for these pitiful seasons. Yes, teams like Sheffield United, and maybe Brentford next year, go down, but they have at least one competitive season in which they stay up. Another excuse is the higher spending power of the rest of the league. Whilst this is patently a big issue and a problem in modern football, we must use our disadvantage as a motivating factor and have the determination to buck the trend. We sort of have a chip on our shoulder and ready made excuse. Brentford for me epitomise a no fear attitude and act as though they deserve to be here. They will probably get relegated at some point but at least they looked like a proper Premier League team in the meantime.

I agree with this.

Having less money is not an excuse for spending it on the wrong things. I am not suggesting Webber had an easy job to strengthen the squad on our budget, but telling the media we had spent a lot of money and made good signings this year implies that, in hindsight, it has simply been spent very poorly. Considering a lot of fans were pointing out the lack of physicality in the squad the last time we were in the Premiership it is difficult to understand why we ended up with someone like Gilmour on loan without first addressing these issues.

Also, relegation is one thing, and I think most fans accepted it was likely. The least we should have expected is a bit of excitement and the belief that actually we have a chance of surviving. Thinking back to when we went down at Fulham that season, we did at least show some spirit and took it to the last day, despite being massively outclassed in a lot of games. That does not seem to have happened at all this season, despite apparently having a superior squad. It really seems as if the culture at the club has been totally wrong this season, and that can only stem from the top.

The fact we seem to have been so, so weak defensively at this level, and having been unable to score goals as well is very unnerving. It is really difficult to see what forward progress we have made, despite two seasons of Prem money and another of parachute payments.

[Nuff Said 5,240]

15 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Very true and that has everything to do with the useless owners who publicly espouse the 'little Norwich' syndrome. By the end of his tenure they even had Farke saying exactly the same sort of thing! Is it any wonder the players simply rolled over with no fight?

Perhaps you can explain how our “useless” owners have managed to achieve 7 years in the Premier League? Something not matched by the millionaire owners at Derby, Forest, the Sheffield clubs, Birmingham, QPR, West Brom, Sunderland, Hull, Cardiff….