Webber to go this week.

[king canary 7,580]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Staying up for a season or two is not “established”, which is BF’s point. 
 

Being disappointed we can’t manage a second season is different. Of course, we always want more. If we’d managed two seasons twice and then got relegated, people would be complaining that we can’t do three,

Yeah I totally understand that.

However I don't buy the attitude that because staying up forever won't happen that it doesn't matter if we go straight back down that largely seems to inform the comparisons that Big Fish makes. 

[king canary 7,580]

36 minutes ago, (Hoola)Han Solo said:

As a club we need to get out of this habit of saying “Well, X club has now been relegated”, as though it is some sort of excuse for these pitiful seasons. Yes, teams like Sheffield United, and maybe Brentford next year, go down, but they have at least one competitive season in which they stay up. Another excuse is the higher spending power of the rest of the league. Whilst this is patently a big issue and a problem in modern football, we must use our disadvantage as a motivating factor and have the determination to buck the trend. We sort of have a chip on our shoulder and ready made excuse. Brentford for me epitomise a no fear attitude and act as though they deserve to be here. They will probably get relegated at some point but at least they looked like a proper Premier League team in the meantime.

Yep I totally agree. I've made the point before that lots of clubs who might currently be in worse positions than us right now have, in my time as a football fan achieved things we haven't. The current Norwich regime puts us in a place where the lows aren't that low but the highs also feel very limited. Winning the Championship is very nice but I can't lie that I'd kill for the chance to see us lift a cup at Wembley, play some unglamorous Europa League group stage games against teams like Slavia Prague or even just tackling a Premier League season like we did that one time under Lambert.

 

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

6 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Staying up for a season or two is not “established”, which is BF’s point. 
 

Being disappointed we can’t manage a second season is different. Of course, we always want more. If we’d managed two seasons twice and then got relegated, people would be complaining that we can’t do three,

People aren’t happy that we have come up so many times and have not kicked on.

One season of survival would be nice, beats the drivel we have been served up.

[(Hoola)Han Solo 324]

8 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yep I totally agree. I've made the point before that lots of clubs who might currently be in worse positions than us right now have, in my time as a football fan achieved things we haven't. The current Norwich regime puts us in a place where the lows aren't that low but the highs also feel very limited. Winning the Championship is very nice but I can't lie that I'd kill for the chance to see us lift a cup at Wembley, play some unglamorous Europa League group stage games against teams like Slavia Prague or even just tackling a Premier League season like we did that one time under Lambert.

 

The Lambert season was an anomaly. We used the momentum from the previous season, identified the positions to strengthen and got the new signings in very early. I went to several away games that season and thought we had a chance in all of them, even against the big boys (indeed, I saw us beat Spurs). In the games we lost, it was because we were bettered on the day, and not from a lack of fight or desire, which has been a huge issue this season. The whole squad had huge belief beyond their talents. Without doubt my favourite season of the last twenty years. This is the sort of culture and attitude I want at the club. 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

 

---

Nuff Said     2,400

•  
  •  

Posted 33 minutes ago

   1 hour ago,  Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: 

Anybody who sells the only weapon Buendia, thus castrating the half-weapon Pukki, does not replace the absolutely fundamental structural fulcrum that was Skipp, de-facto switching to a Gilmour-sized non-defensive metronome designed to operate in space that would-could never be available to an inferior side, spending the vast majority of the limited funds on wingers which also can never be operated tactically in a top-tier side that will inevitably come under strong press, thus inevitably creating a weaker top division side than the lower division side that preceded it, is pathetically poor. And obvious proctor hoc. 

Parma

How much of that was Webber though, and how much was Farke? A rhetorical question obviously. 
 

 

———————-

Not very rhetorical @Nuff Said

Farke said ‘we chose to sell Buendia’

Let’s be clear: that is the ‘Royal We’. Farke did not want to sell Buendia. It was a Hobson’s choice, based on limited finance and an imperfect start point. Farke was very collegiate. Perhaps to a fault. 

Farke stopped playing Gilmour (and Cantwell) quite quickly. That is accepting the tactical flaw identified above regarding the fundamental role Gilmour plays (and that it does not resolve the Skipp hole)  and possibly sending the message that Cantwell could not replace Buendia (If it was thought he could). Farke either believed and stopped believing or never quite believed, but collegiately-supported. Farke understood the Sporting Director model. He ‘gave’ it power, he knew what it was for, he was good at ‘lines of communication’ and role delineation.

Farke had to lose the binary fight between ‘players not good enough’ and ‘head coach not good enough’

He - and I - understand that is the game, the life we have chosen. Webber could neither point the finger at himself nor accept - at that point - the glass ceiling of zero finance. 

It is now mountainously obvious. The painful truth may be that Farke was perfect for us. That we cannot aspire higher. I don’t blame Webber at all for not being able to face that. 
 

Pepsi has to accept it’s not Coca-Cola though. So it bases its strategy on what it is, not what it isn’t. 

Keeping Buendia, finding a Skipp-alike, risking a smaller squad, having an ear out for 6 months of Eriksen is not rocket science though. Every analyst understands the difference between weapons and good players, 

That was all incredibly poor. And so, so obvious. Long before a ball was kicked. Farke was in the building and must take his share of that failure. A horrible triumph of belief over pragmatism. Too much ‘ignoring the outside noise’ ?
 

Parma 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Nuff Said 5,091]

10 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

People aren’t happy that we have come up so many times and have not kicked on.

One season of survival would be nice, beats the drivel we have been served up.

Of course. Personally I found last time worse than this season, although that may be because I watched every single game and I’ve not been able to this season. Quite possibly if I had I would be as equally disappointed as I was by the flat, hopeless performances I saw under Farke last time after the restart.

[king canary 7,580]

3 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

---

 

Nuff Said     2,400

•  
  •  

Posted 33 minutes ago

   1 hour ago,  Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: 

Anybody who sells the only weapon Buendia, thus castrating the half-weapon Pukki, does not replace the absolutely fundamental structural fulcrum that was Skipp, de-facto switching to a Gilmour-sized non-defensive metronome designed to operate in space that would-could never be available to an inferior side, spending the vast majority of the limited funds on wingers which also can never be operated tactically in a top-tier side that will inevitably come under strong press, thus inevitably creating a weaker top division side than the lower division side that preceded it, is pathetically poor. And obvious proctor hoc. 

Parma

How much of that was Webber though, and how much was Farke? A rhetorical question obviously. 
 

 

———————-

Not very rhetorical @Nuff Said

Farke said ‘we chose to sell Buendia’

Let’s be clear: that is the ‘Royal We’. Farke did not want to sell Buendia. It was a Hobson’s choice, based on limited finance and an imperfect start point. Farke was very collegiate. Perhaps to a fault. 

Farke stopped playing Gilmour (and Cantwell) quite quickly. That is accepting the tactical flaw identified above regarding the fundamental role Gilmour plays (and that it does not resolve the Skipp hole)  and possibly sending the message that Cantwell could not replace Buendia (If it was thought he could). Farke either believed and stopped believing or never quite believed, but collegiately-supported. Farke understood the Sporting Director model. He ‘gave’ it power, he knew what it was for, he was good at ‘lines of communication’ and role delineation.

Farke had to lose the binary fight between ‘players not good enough’ and ‘head coach not good enough’

He - and I - understand that is the game, the life we have chosen. Webber could neither point the finger at himself nor accept - at that point - the glass ceiling of zero finance. 

It is now mountainously obvious. The painful truth may be that Farke was perfect for us. That we cannot aspire higher. I don’t blame Webber at all for not being able to face that. 
 

Pepsi has to accept it’s not Coca-Cola though. So it’s bases its strategy on what it is, not what it isn’t. 

Keeping Buendia, finding a Skipp-alike, risking a smaller squad, having an ear out for 6 months of Eriksen is not rocket science though. Every analyst understands the difference between weapons and good players, 

That was all incredibly poor. And so, so obvious. Long before a ball was kicked. Farke was in the building and must take his share of that failure. A horrible triumph of belief over pragmatism. Too much ‘ignoring the outside noise’ ?
 

Parma 

 

All speculation but I get the sense we went into this season knowing one player would need to be sold to give us a competitive budget and we wanted it to be Aarons- hence the very public briefing that we had said we'd let him leave etc etc. When that interest didn't fully materialise we ended up selling Emi.

Could obviously be totally wrong. 

[Highland Canary 76]

Webber is simply not the problem. Navigate the continual transition between premier league and championship on a self-funding basis - an impossible task. Good luck to him. Sadly, his departure will bring the risk of administration ever closer.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

All speculation but I get the sense we went into this season knowing one player would need to be sold to give us a competitive budget and we wanted it to be Aarons- hence the very public briefing that we had said we'd let him leave etc etc. When that interest didn't fully materialise we ended up selling Emi.

Could obviously be totally wrong. 

Much of the teeth-gnashing about Cantwell also came about because of ‘£30m+’ valuation-touting. That was likely similar commercial sabre-rattling in the anyone-other-than-Buendia hope of money. 

That of course I understand. 

However. However.

All of that charade to buy £30m of Sargent-Tzolis-Rashica?

Two of which are roles we shouldn’t - and couldn’t - use. The other bought to cover Pukki - which he either can’t or hasn’t been played to do. At least one of which has hardly played. 

So somebody really wanted to go on that spree didn’t they?

Just ‘keeping’ a player - perhaps petulant and with a pushy agent (like every good player on the planet) is not sexy is it? 

I like the line ‘we got so excited that we could, we never asked if we should’

Parma

Edited April 25, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[king canary 7,580]

8 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Much of the teeth-gnashing about Cantwell also came about because of ‘£30m+’ valuation-touting. That was likely similar commercial sabre-rattling in the anyone-other-than-Buendia hope of money. 

That of course I understand. 

However. However.

All of that charade to buy £30m of Sargent-Tzolis-Rashica?

Two of which are roles we shouldn’t - and couldn’t - use. The other bought to cover Pukki - which he either can’t or hasn’t been played to do. At least one of which has hardly played. 

So somebody really wanted to go on that spree didn’t they?

Just ‘keeping’ a player - perhaps petulant and with a pushy agent (like every good player on the planet) is not sexy is it? 

I like the line ‘we got so excited that we could, we never asked if we should’

Parma

Hmmm, that feels like a highly uncharitable reading of the situation- that Webber just wanted a shopping spree no matter how he got the money- that I wouldn't personally agree with.

If you look at the reported figues we spent this summer (around £60m all in including loan fees) minus the £30m odd for Emi and the money spend on pre agreed deals made in the Championship, we're left with Webber having, at best, maybe £20m to improve on what he already had. So I do understand the calculation that selling a 'crown jewel' in order to fund other improvements may be the best better. However once we got the money the decisions were questionable as you mention, we basically spent all the Buendia money on players to try and replace Buendia which renders it net zero in some ways. Similarly I'll never understand the rational to spend so much of a limited budget on a second choice keeper. However I'm not sure I'd claim Webber just really wanted the chance to splash some cash.

[TESCO 70]

The supposed "in the know" account on Twitter had this to say about the matter

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, komakino said:

1 hour ago, Badger said:

The interview was a massive gaffe and the behaviour after the match was unprofessional: neither can really be defended so I would not be at all surprised if he were to leave.

Unlike others, however, I feel his overall record at the club has been a good one and am not sure his departure is an unquestionably good thing for team performance next year. 

As a business owner, the question I would be asking myself is 'Would I want someone like him working for me?'. His behaviour alone would mean the answer would be an emphatic 'no'. He's become a liability and we know what happens to those. 

I don't think that you could argue against this - he has shown very poor judgement twice in quick succession. Unless there are personal mitigating circumstances of which we are aware, I think that he must be on very thin ice.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

31 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

Webber is simply not the problem. Navigate the continual transition between premier league and championship on a self-funding basis - an impossible task. Good luck to him. Sadly, his departure will bring the risk of administration ever closer.

But if we want or have to sustain self funding then we have to keep going until we find someone who can. What is the alternative?

[hertfordyellow 460]

33 minutes ago, (Hoola)Han Solo said:

The Lambert season was an anomaly. We used the momentum from the previous season, identified the positions to strengthen and got the new signings in very early. I went to several away games that season and thought we had a chance in all of them, even against the big boys (indeed, I saw us beat Spurs). In the games we lost, it was because we were bettered on the day, and not from a lack of fight or desire, which has been a huge issue this season. The whole squad had huge belief beyond their talents. Without doubt my favourite season of the last twenty years. This is the sort of culture and attitude I want at the club. 

It was also a decade ago. The premiership has changed a lot since then.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

1 hour ago, komakino said:

As a business owner, the question I would be asking myself is 'Would I want someone like him working for me?'. His behaviour alone would mean the answer would be an emphatic 'no'. He's become a liability and we know what happens to those. 

It’s such a pity .

The argument that it was just a few blokes carrying a duvet makes it worse . It was a few blokes carrying a duvet . And a top executive at a premier league club should bounce off those things all day.
 

Especially those that enjoy providing motivational talks and appear on podcasts telling us all to ignore the noise. 

 

Heard Stuart speak lots over the years and really enjoyed them all. He has let himself down in the last few weeks . I actually hope the guy is ok. It does seem a dramatic fall . 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Graham Paddons Beard

[BigFish 1,986]

48 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yep I totally agree. I've made the point before that lots of clubs who might currently be in worse positions than us right now have, in my time as a football fan achieved things we haven't. The current Norwich regime puts us in a place where the lows aren't that low but the highs also feel very limited. Winning the Championship is very nice but I can't lie that I'd kill for the chance to see us lift a cup at Wembley, play some unglamorous Europa League group stage games against teams like Slavia Prague or even just tackling a Premier League season like we did that one time under Lambert.

Truth be acknowledged we are punching very much at our weight, not above, not below but pretty much as the fundamentals for a club like Norwich would dictate as a statistical average (e.g position 20.5). I agree it would be more exciting if the highs were higher, but just think what this board would be like when the lows were lower.

Perspective is difficult when the failures are closer than the successes as well. Our business was bad this close season, out players haven't been good enough & Webber couldn't complain if he had to go on that basis. That we won the Chumps last season is largely forgotten, and certainly the club is better placed than when he joined.

 

[1902 1,167]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Perhaps you can explain how our “useless” owners have managed to achieve 7 years in the Premier League? Something not matched by the millionaire owners at Derby, Forest, the Sheffield clubs, Birmingham, QPR, West Brom, Sunderland, Hull, Cardiff….

Because football fans are more prone to hyperbolic statements and overreactions than any other collective group I can imagine, (aside from maybe me when discussing football fans).

Our owners have their strengths and their weaknesses. However in a promotion season nobody mentions them and in a relegation they are useless. Webber has gone from maestro to moron. Farke played the best football ever seen at Norwich and was a genius to an idiot who can't use substitutes and now seems to be well on the way to rehabilitation. Josh Sargent was worth a few pennies at most, had a few games as being promising, the other day I read that he wouldn't get near league one.

All of that fury and over reaction is dressed up as passion, and anyone who claims that maybe the situations a bit more nuanced has no real love for football or is treacherous for not being a true believer.

Edited April 25, 2022 by 1902

[Van wink 2,994]

4 hours ago, Norfolk Dan said:

I think we are seeing unfold is that it was Daniel or Stuart... Stuart won. You could see that pain on Delia's face post Brentford win.  (Edit. Ref Our Brentford Away win)

Wrong call at the time. It was Stuart's head to go. A Footballing ethos through the club, patterns of play, youth development are way more to me as a fan that the EP'ishy'L ... 

The prize on offer is finish 17th to 9th. That is no a prize. 

 In the Chumps... We know who we are... We will have our name on that Trophy more times than Liverpool soon! Plus having Everton down with us will keep is back in the shadows again. 

 

 

Spot on Dan, the wrong call at the wrong time, such a shame.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

@king canary…

…bud, conversely I think I’ll double-down and go further ….🤗…

…While everyone is indulging in whataboutery I’ll cash in some of those chips…

I think that had Smith-Shakey been Managers at the time - and Webber had come with his proposal of trading Buendia at the point of promotion for the Sargent-Tzolis-Rashica axis -  that Smith-Shakey would have made it a ‘back me or sack me’ moment.

They would simply not have accepted losing-selling-acceding to Buendia’s departure at any price under any circumstances at that point in time.

Parma 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Of course. Personally I found last time worse than this season, although that may be because I watched every single game and I’ve not been able to this season. Quite possibly if I had I would be as equally disappointed as I was by the flat, hopeless performances I saw under Farke last time after the restart.

They are both terrible and the fact the club hasn’t learnt a thing over the years is quite alarming. But it stems from the top and they should have left years ago!

[nutty nigel 7,509]

2 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

They are both terrible and the fact the club hasn’t learnt a thing over the years is quite alarming. But it stems from the top and they should have left years ago!

If they'd left years ago it's a massive leap of faith to assume any PL seasons.

[ricardo 7,348]

9 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

If they'd left years ago it's a massive leap of faith to assume any PL seasons.

Some of them have yet to go through any really hard times yet Nutty. I seriously doubt that many who are so full of it at the moment would be able to stick it out.

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

---

Nuff Said     2,400

•  
  •  

Posted 33 minutes ago

   1 hour ago,  Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: 

Anybody who sells the only weapon Buendia, thus castrating the half-weapon Pukki, does not replace the absolutely fundamental structural fulcrum that was Skipp, de-facto switching to a Gilmour-sized non-defensive metronome designed to operate in space that would-could never be available to an inferior side, spending the vast majority of the limited funds on wingers which also can never be operated tactically in a top-tier side that will inevitably come under strong press, thus inevitably creating a weaker top division side than the lower division side that preceded it, is pathetically poor. And obvious proctor hoc. 

Parma

How much of that was Webber though, and how much was Farke? A rhetorical question obviously. 
 

 

———————-

Not very rhetorical @Nuff Said

Farke said ‘we chose to sell Buendia’

Let’s be clear: that is the ‘Royal We’. Farke did not want to sell Buendia. It was a Hobson’s choice, based on limited finance and an imperfect start point. Farke was very collegiate. Perhaps to a fault. 

Farke stopped playing Gilmour (and Cantwell) quite quickly. That is accepting the tactical flaw identified above regarding the fundamental role Gilmour plays (and that it does not resolve the Skipp hole)  and possibly sending the message that Cantwell could not replace Buendia (If it was thought he could). Farke either believed and stopped believing or never quite believed, but collegiately-supported. Farke understood the Sporting Director model. He ‘gave’ it power, he knew what it was for, he was good at ‘lines of communication’ and role delineation.

Farke had to lose the binary fight between ‘players not good enough’ and ‘head coach not good enough’

He - and I - understand that is the game, the life we have chosen. Webber could neither point the finger at himself nor accept - at that point - the glass ceiling of zero finance. 

It is now mountainously obvious. The painful truth may be that Farke was perfect for us. That we cannot aspire higher. I don’t blame Webber at all for not being able to face that. 
 

Pepsi has to accept it’s not Coca-Cola though. So it bases its strategy on what it is, not what it isn’t. 

Keeping Buendia, finding a Skipp-alike, risking a smaller squad, having an ear out for 6 months of Eriksen is not rocket science though. Every analyst understands the difference between weapons and good players, 

That was all incredibly poor. And so, so obvious. Long before a ball was kicked. Farke was in the building and must take his share of that failure. A horrible triumph of belief over pragmatism. Too much ‘ignoring the outside noise’ ?
 

Parma 

 

So, it wouldn't surprise you that I prefer Pepsi? 😀

[essex canary 492]

3 hours ago, Foxy2600 said:

Well either way his Missus will still be there 🤣

Her CV must be good in some respects. How many people could get a good job in a different part of the country to their other half, then get pregnant then find that their other half takes the top job in the same Company?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by essex canary

[Ken Hairy 3,760]

90% of me thinks his time is now up, his position is totally untenable....... (the other 10% of me agrees too..... 😏) 

[Google Bot 3,259]

2 hours ago, Highland Canary said:

Navigate the continual transition between premier league and championship on a self-funding basis - an impossible task.

But it's not entirely self-funded as there's such a massive windfall for being promoted. We just failed to invest it into the correct commodities, and lost track of on-the-field assets to grow the club.

Somewhere along the line we decided to cash in on Buendia, when Todd and Aaron's should've been the ones going out - achieving at least the same income, but much easier to cover.

I don't know why people say the model doesn't work when we managed to **** it up.  It's totally achievable to be in the mix around the bottom 6 - but we're so damn awful rooted to the bottom of the league and failing to put up a fight for vast majority of the season.  Absolutely pathetic management of resources.

Who was yelling for a Billy Gilmour when we got promoted?  Why wasn't we playing Sorensen when we had secured promotion and started to manage the CDM position as priority? No goal scorer coming in when we're at our most attractive point being promoted, No support to new manager coming, playing two up front in December without any cover.

I mean come on, the decisions have been an absolute joke.  Nothing to do with the financial model to work within.  Every pundit was speaking out how appalling our signings were, meanwhile we watch the likes of Burnley and those around us financially hold on to players and build.

And even to this day we allow management to sit and watch centerbacks pass to the opposition in our own pen box.  It's just dire.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Google Bot

[norfolkngood 1,086]

4 hours ago, Google Bot said:

The most indicative measure for me is what our starting line up is next season.  Previously prem league season we stuck with our style and beliefs and following relegation we encouraged Skipp to join the fight, and held on to performing players like Aarons, Emi, Pukki and Cantwell.

Points aside, it feels that we've lost far more structurally this season, and as a result it's been a calamity.  Take Normann out, and where's the spine to build on?

Yes Exactly how i feel 

looks like we are in a worse position than we were last time without splashing all the money up the wall 

last time we still had farke to get us out of the championship also 

this season is just a complete mess DOF going up a mountain / arguments in the street

Midfield that will all be gone in summer back to their own clubs 

Total Rebuild and a new spine is needed but the money has been wasted 

 

[baldy09 156]

Delia will have to write another cookery book just to pay Webber off, 

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

If they'd left years ago it's a massive leap of faith to assume any PL seasons.

Not really, you just have blind loyalty to them

[Nuff Said 5,091]

29 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Not really, you just have blind loyalty to them

Not really, you just have blind opposition to them.