Will Wagner stay.

[slaphead 17]

I just wonder if his fate has already been sealed . I just can't see him being here next season. If we go up or not.A little dig re, not his decision for a small squad. You have to be with your boss 100% not pull in different directions. I think Napper will go for a new coaching set up.

[Crafty Canary 497]

The club’s performance standard is to be a top 26 club. DW is on course to achieve this despite losing his top scorer for 4 months. Not likely that he will be replaced this summer.

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

He's earned and deserved a crack for next season after looking on shaky ground. Moreover, it's obvious that the players are very much fighting for him.

Unless Knapper has a real "rabbit out of the hat" moment, he's best advised to sit tight on the manager's seat and see how some of the youngsters are coming along, and if they are ready for Wagner to put into the squad.

[slaphead 17]

Good points.

[S_81 829]

He’ll be in the dugout first game next season. Even if Knapper wanted to, he hasn’t got a case to sack him given the turnaround. But frankly I don’t think the owners nor Knapper wanted rid anyway. They gave him the time to turn things around and that’s been proved to be the right decision, regardless of what now follows this season. 

[slaphead 17]

Sorry (knapper)

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,843]

I don't know a huge amount about Knapper, because he doesn't speak publicly very often and he's extremely guarded when he does, unlike his predecessor.

However, I think that if the managerial position was vacant when he arrived and Wagner applied, he wouldn't have been at the top of Knapper's shortlist. Also, I don't think that Wagner and Knapper have completely seen eye to eye on transfer dealings thus far.

The possibility of Wagner choosing to leave and waive his right to payoff is basically nil though, as this hardly ever happens nowadays, so ultimately it comes down to whether Knapper wants to continue working with Wagner.

Results have been excellent since Knapper arrived and Wagner is doing a very good job, probably enough to keep him in the role next season regardless of which division we're playing in, but it still wouldn't surprise me if there were a mutual termination in the summer whether we get promoted or not.

[hogesar 9,722]

My view is he's more likely to leave than stay. I dont want him to leave, but it's what I can see happening.

Knapper weakened our squad in January and Wagner has made several comments about it. We then sign a replacement for goalscoring Idah in someone for the "long term" even though its only a loan at this stage, who doesn't look anything remotely like the sort of striker Wagner wants for this system.

Put it this way, I think if we achieve playoffs this season it's in spite of what Knapper done in January rather than because of it.

Saying all the above, there's plenty of times Sporting Directors and Head Coaches won't see eye to eye as often some of Knappers long term work won't be to appease the coach. And that's not a slant on Knapper because Farke was furious at us selling Pritchard and was rightfully dubious if this new Buendia chap who Webber said was better would actually prove to be.

Ultimately there will have to be some sort of deal struck at end of season - Wagner will want something more than a rolling contract and will have options away from Norwich and Knapper may want his own man which in itself would be understandable.

But the pressure is then on - these players love Wagner and they feel vindicated in their group decision to back him vs the noise from us lot wanting him sacked.

So if you get a new man in he will have to hit the ground running or the squad will, at least subconsciously, be questioning the decisions the club makes.

[repman 635]

If we don't go up this year I think we are going to see lots of changes. I just can't see how we maintain such a high wage budget considering parachute payments will be no more. 

If that's the case, we will probably be looking to get as many high earners off the books, but considering most of them are 30+ that will be easier said than done. The first lot will presumably be done this summer with Gibson, Giannoulis and Batth all likely to be let go for nothing. 

We'll still need to plug the finances anyhow and that will have to come from player sales, at least 1 of Sara/Sarge/Rowe will go and possibly more than one if we need money to spend in other areas. I don't think Attanasio will be putting his pocket any more than he has done so far. 

If this is the situation we find ourselves in I don't think Wagner will be here, and I'm not sure he'd be massively keen either. We rolled the dice on this season and it might just pay off, but no matter the outcome I don't think we'll be doing similar again.

 

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

Despite this recent run, the turnaround and the support of the players (nothing particularly unusual there) I want him gone. Preferably on a high, as I like the man.

There have been enough ups and downs, bad runs (the end of last season, along with this mid-season's collapse) curious selections and substitutions and tactics that I, for one, will never be entirely convinced of his tactical credentials.

Memories are short, but surely not short enough to forget the derision the man received on this forum at virtually his every move and decision during that recent bad run? It was intense, and apparently the atmosphere at Carrow Road reflected this.

A complete clean out is much needed. New owner (hopefully), new Director of Football and a new manager.

So much has been good about the last five years, the training ground, the youth turnout, the successes on the field of play, the level of support. 

Let's build upon this with a new, young, innovative beginning.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,444]

6 hours ago, repman said:

If we don't go up this year I think we are going to see lots of changes. I just can't see how we maintain such a high wage budget considering parachute payments will be no more. 

If that's the case, we will probably be looking to get as many high earners off the books, but considering most of them are 30+ that will be easier said than done. The first lot will presumably be done this summer with Gibson, Giannoulis and Batth all likely to be let go for nothing. 

We'll still need to plug the finances anyhow and that will have to come from player sales, at least 1 of Sara/Sarge/Rowe will go and possibly more than one if we need money to spend in other areas. I don't think Attanasio will be putting his pocket any more than he has done so far. 

 

 

Exactly this. 
FFP / P&S will hit us next year as our third year back in the prem disappears along with parachute payments. Without promotion we would be well outside the £39m losses allowable and any sensible offers will be listened to. 
 

There is only so much money an owner can put in . Wealthier owners than ours still struggle to get round the regulations . 
 

Without promotion Sara I would say is a dead cert to go . Sargent and Rowe will be in the frame . All of them will want to be in the Prem. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,062]

I absolutely want him to stay and hope that he does. A good bloke and a good manager.

[Indy 3,314]

I really think unless the rumour is correct and Cuesta or this type of coach is coming in then there’s not going to be much option but to go with Wagner.

It’s going to depend on a few things, if we go up I think it will be very difficult to sack Wagner, if we don’t then we will probably end up losing a good few players and the focus on the youth set up, which I’m not sure Wagner will be happy with and as above he might possibly say it’s not for him and move on from here with a good season under his belt!

We look at this through supporter eyes but when you look at it from Wagners eyes the wages will probably be dropped, the board structure still not resolved, losing your best players and will Wagner be happy to be relying on Knapper for replacements, who bought in VH…..promotion is key in this in my opinion.

Hogsar above is pretty much bang on.

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

I'm not sure supporters want a root and branch rebuild, certainly not those paying good money to watch it.

If we don't up then expectations will be high, especially if that lot down the road do. I can't see the fans putting up with a pretty much whole new squad, a new Head Coach and being told it's a 3 year plan be patient. As sensible as that may sound the reality is it won't wash in football the fans aren't patient.

If Knapper has any sense he'll persevere with Wagner. He doesn't have the know how or experience to mastermind a rebuild.

[Well b back 3,267]

After the abuse thrown at him and some of the players mid season, is there any gauruntee him and some of those players will want to stay ? Time will tell.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,139]

I think the only justification Knapper would have for sacking him is that he doesn't play the style of football that Knapper wants. Personally I enjoy watching Wagner's team play and as a rule I don't enjoy possession football, it's a complete dead end in the PL and unless you have a couple of special players to create something from nothing it's really bloody boring and frustrating to watch. 

There's also something to be said for keeping some stability and building on what we have. We've had a lot of disruption the last few summers and I think it would be better to stick with most of the same squad and same head coach now that the players know each others game. I honestly think a lot of our issues in the last 3 seasons have been because of the high turnover of players and the lack of cohesion they had.

If we stay down I'd keep Wagner and try to keep most of the squad together, we'd have to sell and release a couple but then Knapper can hopefully show his worth and find us a few gems to replace whoever leaves.

Edited April 15 by Christoph Stiepermann

[Hairy Canary 706]

I'm not sure where this often stated conviction that Wagner will go in the summer comes from. There's no indication from the club that that is their intention. In fact quite the opposite in both word and deed. 

Delia was quite open about aspiring a long term manager in her last interview and also the club stood by Wagner when virtually everyone (myself included) wanted him gone when the wheels came off earlier this season. It fact it was public knowledge that Delia rang Wagner to offer her support at that time. Personally I think the club will feel that decision has been totally vindicated by the upturn in performances, whatever now transpires.

Next year, if we don't go up, we are going to have to make some serious economies when the parachute payments end, and that's going to mean sales, big changes and a period of rebuild. My reading of the way the Board reacts is that that means Wagner is much more likely to stay than go.   

Edited April 15 by Hairy Canary

[Canarywary 110]

7 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Memories are short, but surely not short enough to forget the derision the man received on this forum at virtually his every move and decision during that recent bad run? It was intense, and apparently the atmosphere at Carrow Road reflected this.

As a football fan the opposite of having too short a memory is to never let things go, regardless of how long ago they were. Surely there has to be a point where you move on from a bad spell of form? You can't sack a manager for a poor run that came before a much more significant good run (resulting in a playoff place), that would make us a laughing stock.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

I'd only want Waggo to stay if Webbo comes back....

'chortle'.....

[Conrad 178]

No. If we don't go up then we will lose some key players mean that we may not challenge again next year. If we do go up Wagner hasn't yet shown that he has the necessary technical nous, nor will we get a sudden influx of better players to help our cause. In either case Wagner's status is now as high as it is likely to get, so I expect him to be off in the summer.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

52 minutes ago, Conrad said:

No. If we don't go up then we will lose some key players mean that we may not challenge again next year. If we do go up Wagner hasn't yet shown that he has the necessary technical nous, nor will we get a sudden influx of better players to help our cause. In either case Wagner's status is now as high as it is likely to get, so I expect him to be off in the summer.

Wagner has promotion and subsequent survival on his CV from Huddersfield. That's a big tick in his favour if we do get promotion this season, especially given that Huddersfield had never been more than Championship strugglers before that.

Add to that the squad's obvious support and willingness to work for him, it's hard to imagine why the club hierarchy would want to change.

Equally, if we're not promoted, given we're probably going to be unable to keep hold of a lot of important players, there's no reason not to start afresh with a new manager and a clean slate, unless Wagner has shown enough the second half of the season that key players can be convinced to stay to give it another go, in which case he'd also have to stay.

Edited April 15 by littleyellowbirdie

[pete 320]

If we achieve promotion to PL.  Wagner would do himself more favours by resigning.  Because look at history of NCFC in the PL we are going to be bottom.  We all know that will be the case and sometime during that season will get the sack.  Likely will be September unless its January.  As long as City make a good amount of money from a season of PL which will be novel given previous visits to PL.  New contracts for most will eat up the fortunes to be made and leave us unable to fund a promotion push in 25/26.  Contracts must be extended for those assets whose value will be increased by a season in PL. 

[rock bus 854]

Over the majority of the season (even last week after the Tuesday game!) the talk has been about should we get rid of Wagner.

Interesting thing now is that given how successful the performance has been since January there might now be a question mark over can we keep Wagner (regardless of division).

His 'stock' will probably be at its highest at the end of the season so he may be receiving offers from other teams. Given that he has been derided by large parts of the fan base, the poor atmosphere at Carrow Road and booing whilst we weren't doing well, lack of backing in January and a potential conflict of approach with Knapper... I can easily see him wanting to move on regardless of what the club wants.

[king canary 7,654]

12 hours ago, hogesar said:

My view is he's more likely to leave than stay. I dont want him to leave, but it's what I can see happening.

Knapper weakened our squad in January and Wagner has made several comments about it. We then sign a replacement for goalscoring Idah in someone for the "long term" even though its only a loan at this stage, who doesn't look anything remotely like the sort of striker Wagner wants for this system.

Put it this way, I think if we achieve playoffs this season it's in spite of what Knapper done in January rather than because of it.

Saying all the above, there's plenty of times Sporting Directors and Head Coaches won't see eye to eye as often some of Knappers long term work won't be to appease the coach. And that's not a slant on Knapper because Farke was furious at us selling Pritchard and was rightfully dubious if this new Buendia chap who Webber said was better would actually prove to be.

Ultimately there will have to be some sort of deal struck at end of season - Wagner will want something more than a rolling contract and will have options away from Norwich and Knapper may want his own man which in itself would be understandable.

But the pressure is then on - these players love Wagner and they feel vindicated in their group decision to back him vs the noise from us lot wanting him sacked.

So if you get a new man in he will have to hit the ground running or the squad will, at least subconsciously, be questioning the decisions the club makes.

I don't envy Knapper. If he doesn't think Wagner fits the longer term vision for the club and if he has someone he is convinced is the right man then he should probably move him on even if we finish top 6. It seems crazy but at the same time it has worked in the past- Southampton getting rid of Adkins for Pochetino for example and Bournemouth moving on from Gary O'Neil doesn't seem to have hurt them. Yes players seem to like Wagner but they are pros and will probably have seen manager they like let go at previous clubs- they can adapt.

Saying that, he puts a giant target on his back if he chooses to. If we finish top 6 but don't go up and he brings in Cuesta, he's going to look foolish if we're suddenly 15th in November. 

It also isn't all on Knapper too- it could be that Wagner is willing to adapt and change in ways that mean him and Knapper can work well together but him moaning in the press about a small squad doesn't suggest that is likely. Heck, it might even be that Wagner doesn't want to work with Knapper and would rather move on. What matters though is the two of them being largely on the same page.

I'd also add that the blame for the decision to loan out Idah doesn't rest solely with Knapper. Idah wanted to move because he didn't feel he was getting the game time here and that is from the choices Wagner made, especially when he preferred Hwang over him during Sargent's initial injury. 

[nutty nigel 7,583]

This has become interesting.

Any change in manager will bring expectations of an improvement on this season. So if we finish in the play offs but don’t go up that’s the benchmark for next season regardless of who is manager.

If Knapper has his eye on a fresh start next season that’s the pressure he and the new manager would be under. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,464]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

This has become interesting.

Any change in manager will bring expectations of an improvement on this season. So if we finish in the play offs but don’t go up that’s the benchmark for next season regardless of who is manager.

If Knapper has his eye on a fresh start next season that’s the pressure he and the new manager would be under. 

Either that, or someone in a leadership position at the club needs to make it clear that with the end of the parachute payments and the resulting forced sale of some of our best players, we are starting a new cycle. Personally I'd be happy with that as long as the messaging is clear, but I completely understand that many won't be, especially if they're spending their hard-eared money in a cost-of-living crisis on a season ticket. And especially if another team whose name we won't mention have got promotion and aren't immediately humiliated in the PL.

'May you live in interesting times'

[Robert N. LiM 4,464]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

It also isn't all on Knapper too- it could be that Wagner is willing to adapt and change in ways that mean him and Knapper can work well together but him moaning in the press about a small squad doesn't suggest that is likely. Heck, it might even be that Wagner doesn't want to work with Knapper and would rather move on. What matters though is the two of them being largely on the same page.

Funny, isn't it, that our record under Wagner since Knapper took over is that of a team going for automatic promotion. If, as these snippets suggest, they don't work comfortably together, it's quite a productive discomfort!

[king canary 7,654]

17 minutes ago, rock bus said:

Over the majority of the season (even last week after the Tuesday game!) the talk has been about should we get rid of Wagner.

Interesting thing now is that given how successful the performance has been since January there might now be a question mark over can we keep Wagner (regardless of division).

His 'stock' will probably be at its highest at the end of the season so he may be receiving offers from other teams. Given that he has been derided by large parts of the fan base, the poor atmosphere at Carrow Road and booing whilst we weren't doing well, lack of backing in January and a potential conflict of approach with Knapper... I can easily see him wanting to move on regardless of what the club wants.

I really doubt this would be an issue to be honest.

Yes we've been in good form for the last 3 or 4 months. However from an outside perspective taking Norwich to 6th in the table won't be seen as some huge achievement and his failures in Switzerland and with Schalke will still be taken into account. 

[Highland Canary 76]

He doesn’t carry the support. Time to change regardless of how we end the season.

[shefcanary 2,444]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

So if we finish in the play offs but don’t go up that’s the benchmark for next season regardless of who is manager.

I thought that was the Board's benchmark already anyway - top 26 club! 

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Funny, isn't it, that our record under Wagner since Knapper took over is that of a team going for automatic promotion. If, as these snippets suggest, they don't work comfortably together, it's quite a productive discomfort!

That kind of tension can help focus the mind and bring out the best of those around them if they do not take it personally but try to prove the other wrong. As appears to be the case ATM.