Can we build a squad for prem?

[mr footy 36]

We have a chance to right some previous seasons in the top flight ,as we look to make the play offs.If we get promoted does anyone on this forum believe we will stay up at least one season?

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

No.

[Sufyellow 250]

No.

[Monty13 2,736]

Yes genuinely.

This season has been all over the place. You can blame who you like for that, Webber, Wagner, injuries or maybe a combination or something different. However for me we do have some real quality players.

Keep hold of Sargent, Sainz, Gunn, Rowe and Sara and that’s the core of a team that can fight against relegation. 

You don’t need 11 stars to survive in the PL, you need a good coach, a bunch of guys who can do a good enough job and a few players who can change a game.

Get a summer right and you can give yourself a chance, it’s still a small chance, but it’s possible with the core we have.

[dylanisabaddog 6,147]

Premier League standard 

Gunn

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent 

Sara

 

Borderline

Kenny

Nunez

 

Basically we would need to sign an entire back 4. On the plus side, defenders are the cheapest players to buy. 

Edited March 10 by dylanisabaddog

[Conrad 235]

Currently no. But if (and it is a big if) we get promoted then we may have a new manager and if we sign some better players for critical positions then we may have a fighting chance, albeit a slim one. Crucial to that is also retaining the good players that we have in the hope that they also prove good enough for the premiership.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

6 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Premier League standard 

Gunn

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent 

Sara

 

Borderline

Kenny

Nunez

 

Basically we would need to sign an entire back 4. On the plus side, defenders are the cheapest players to buy. 

I do like how you claim four players who have never played in the Prem nor played in a top flight are "prem standard"

[dylanisabaddog 6,147]

Just now, cambridgeshire canary said:

I do like how you claim four players who have never played in the Prem nor played in a top flight are "prem standard"

I have the advantage of watching them play

[DraytonBoy 251]

A serious attempt to stay up requires a major upgrade in the squad with maybe 10 additions assuming all the 'core' players mentioned by Monty actually stay, even then it will still be hard.

Perhaps a bigger question is, are we happy to keep Wagner for a tilt at Premier League survival?  

[Monty13 2,736]

5 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Premier League standard 

Gunn

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent 

Sara

 

Borderline

Kenny

Nunez

 

Basically we would need to sign an entire back 4 

Agree on that. Although I think Stacy could do a job, maybe Duffy considering we’ll be backs to the wall most games anyway and he’s by far the best we have at last ditch defending. Maybe Dimi gets a new contract although he’s far too much of a liability IMO. However you’re right, defence is where we’d primarily need to be spending wisely.

[Virtual reality 860]

3 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Currently no. But if (and it is a big if) we get promoted then we may have a new manager and if we sign some better players for critical positions then we may have a fighting chance, albeit a slim one. Crucial to that is also retaining the good players that we have in the hope that they also prove good enough for the premiership.

Why would the club sack Wagner if he achieved promotion? He’d deserve the club and fans support 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

9 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I have the advantage of watching them play

They're Unproven. Could they do it in the Prem? Maybe. Are they good players? Yes, no doubt.

 

Have they proven to be Prem standard? No. Many players have looked great in the second tier only to end up flopping. Do I think they would do well? Most likely. But again; So far they are unproven

Edited March 10 by cambridgeshire canary

[Monty13 2,736]

1 minute ago, DraytonBoy said:

A serious attempt to stay up requires a major upgrade in the squad with maybe 10 additions assuming all the 'core' players mentioned by Monty actually stay, even then it will still be hard.

Perhaps a bigger question is, are we happy to keep Wagner for a tilt at Premier League survival?  

If we sold any of those players on promotion we’d deserve nothing having failed to learn from past mistakes.

Agree hard, very hard. I think there’s definitely a path to build a competitive team, but still a small chance we can survive.

A lot would depend on Attanasio and his group.

[percy varco 253]

Strong foundations and plans are required to build anything. 
We have neither. 
The MA take over is more of a hindrence just now as it is taking too long with the transition period leaving the immediate situation uncertain and unclear. 

[Virtual reality 860]

History would suggest not.

[hairpie 9]

virtually no Championship clubs have squads that are ready for the Prem. (burnley looked amazing last year now are laughing stock.

 

Our problem is buying the right players for the Prem.  Farke I we bought nobody, Farke II we sold our only prem class player and wasted all the money on young players not ready/not good enough for the prem. we need the middle ground keep all our players and buy 2 or 3 experienced players not young hopefuls. But the gap has become wider, so we need to be realistic.

 

[hertfordyellow 462]

Are we in a stronger position than last time we went up squad wise? Maybe.

The big players from last time were, Pukki, Buendia and Skipp. Buendia and Skipp would leave before the season and Pukki wasn’t as effective without the other players (although did his best).

I would argue Sargent is a more complete striker and more useful in the premiership than Pukki. Rowe is a better overall prospect than Cantwell. Sara and Nunez have the potential add a sprinkle of quality.

Then there is Tzolis. He’s had a banging season out on loan. Could he add a new dynamic? We don’t know, all we know is he’s older and more confident this time round.

Gunn, McClean, Dimi, Gibson are more aware of the task in hand.

We need to plug gaps in defence and midfield but I don’t think we are in a worse position squad wise.

[Indy_Bones 444]

The key issue is that outside of 4-6 players with a sprinkling of promising youngsters, the whole squad needs a total refresh, which probably does include an entire backline, 1-2 central/defensive mids, better wingers to cover injuries/suspensions to Sainz & Rowe, not to mention at least 2 strikers as currently without Sarge we're screwed up front.

None of that is going to come cheap and would require a level of spending and investment that we've never seen before at the club, somewhat akin to the likes of Fulham/Forest spending 100mil + to get the genuine quality we'd need - unless Knapper has some bargains in the pipeline in the mould of Zimbo, Buendia, Madders etc who we got for very little but were excellent.

On paper, especially if we the Attansio situation gets resolved, it's somewhat doable, but even then, it's still a VERY big ask, especially as with that amount of new players coming in at once, the integration time and learning the system and tactics could mean the start to the season would be incredibly rough, and given our history of being handed pretty awful opening fixtures, it could put us on a very negative spiral right from the off.

Either way, I'm intruiged to see what Knapper's longer term plan is here, be this if we get promoted or not, but critical and decisive choices will need to be made either way.

[canarybubbles 2,199]

Personally I'd add Nunez to that list because every decent team needs someone solid who glues the whole thing together. If he goes on playing the way he is, I would add McLean to the squad.

If we sold any of the 'big five' after what happened with Buendia, I'd be very annoyed. If we somehow scrape up to the PL, these guys owe us for helping them get there and they can show a bit of loyalty for at least one year. They're all young enough to spend twelve months developing their skills.

The point about the defence, though, is very true. We would probably need to replace all of the current centre backs or hope that one or two of our youngsters can step up big time (unlikely?).

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,620]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Premier League standard 

Gunn

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent 

Sara

 

Borderline

Kenny

Nunez

 

Basically we would need to sign an entire back 4. On the plus side, defenders are the cheapest players to buy. 

I was thinking about this the other day and came to exact same conclusion of the five who are good enough and the two who are borderline.

I'd also be sure to keep Barnes, Stacey, Duffy and Hanley as experienced heads to provide backup and leadership as they'd all still be under contract. 

Beyond that, there'd be a lot of work to be done.

[Robert N. LiM 6,297]

Perhaps this should be on the 'stupid opinion hill' thread, but I think Adam Idah would be an asset to us in the Premier League.

[Capt. Pants 5,013]

The more pertinent question maybe can we survive without being in the Premier League, and if we aren't what sort of standard will we be watching?

None of our better players are defenders, the squad would need significant investment to be even broadly competitive.

Same applies to most clubs promoted to the EPL.

[canarybubbles 2,199]

18 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

I would argue Sargent is a more complete striker and more useful in the premiership than Pukki. Rowe is a better overall prospect than Cantwell. Sara and Nunez have the potential add a sprinkle of quality.

Then there is Tzolis. He’s had a banging season out on loan. Could he add a new dynamic? We don’t know, all we know is he’s older and more confident this time round.

Gunn, McClean, Dimi, Gibson are more aware of the task in hand.

We need to plug gaps in defence and midfield but I don’t think we are in a worse position squad wise.

If by 'more complete', you mean he's good both in the air and on the ground, I agree. He has improved enormously in the areas where he was weak, but I think his first touch will always be a little haphazard if we play a more tiki-taka, keep-ball approach.

I think Sara and Nunez might add more than a sprinkle of quality. Personally I see them as potentially a very good midfield pairing.

Sadly, I think the Tzolis ship has sailed. Yes, he's doing great at Dusseldorf (I think I'm right in saying he's got five goals and two assists in his last four games), but a) we don't know what price they have the right to buy him for, and if the conjecture that it's around four million is right, why wouldn't they when they could sell him for at least double that, and b) I don't imagine he would want to come back to a club where he basically failed and/or he wasn't given the opportunities to succeed.

Agree about Gunn and McLean.

Finally, you haven't mentioned Sainz. 

Edited March 10 by canarybubbles

[Indy_Bones 444]

2 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Perhaps this should be on the 'stupid opinion hill' thread, but I think Adam Idah would be an asset to us in the Premier League.

As a third choice option, I wouldn't have an issue with that, but if Sarge was out for an extended period, I'd not be comfortable relying on Idah to keep us together, and would rather utilise him as an impact sub for tiring legs etc.

[Nuff Said 5,965]

There seems to be a common belief that we cannot sell any of our best players. But, as ever, there’s a trade-off - a Buendia-sized fee for Rowe in exchange for say, a decent quality CB to play alongside Duffy/Hanley (if Hanley can regain his pre-injury level) and a destroyer at CDM might work in our favour.

For me, the crucial difference between our last two promotions would be not the team, but the tactics. Instead of the frankly suicidal Farke approach, a more realistic, pragmatic way of playing, designed to keep us up for one season, then buy a couple more players of the appropriate quality, and an extra year’s parachute payments if it fails, is what we ought to be looking at. Not to play Pep at his own game.
But then I thought Dean Smith was being pragmatic, so what do I know?

Edited March 10 by Nuff Said

[Nuff Said 5,965]

9 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Perhaps this should be on the 'stupid opinion hill' thread, but I think Adam Idah would be an asset to us in the Premier League.

As a super-sub I agree he could add something. But that is apparently not a role he wants to play. 

However there’s still a fair length of the season for him to grow into with more game time. And he did probably have his best run of games last time he played in the PL.

[S_81 1,102]

We would need a whole new defence right across the back line. And better cover for each of those positions from the bench - bar, arguably, Stacey. 

We need a DCM. A more effective second striker to cover Sarge. And we of course need to retain Sara / Sainz / Rowe. 
 

I can’t see us being radical enough in totally overhauling the defence. And that’s whether we go up or stay at this level. 

Edited March 10 by S_81

[Darth Vadis 167]

We’d need a massive amount of investment - 10 additions at least.

2x quality wingers to compete with Sainz and Rowe

1x CM to compete with Núñez

2x DMs to fill our gaping defensive midfield hole

A whole new backline

A quality backup keeper to push Gunn

Another good striker to push/fill in for Sargent would be needed

 

 

Edited March 10 by Darth Vadis

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Our concerns should not be with what we need should we get there, but what we would need to get there.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,303]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Premier League standard 

Gunn

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent 

Sara

 

Borderline

Kenny

Nunez

 

Basically we would need to sign an entire back 4. On the plus side, defenders are the cheapest players to buy. 

Kenny is maybe the least well equipped player in our squad to make the jump as we have seen twice before. He gets found out in a huge way the next level up.