Can we build a squad for prem?

[dylanisabaddog 4,930]

48 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You're just making stuff up on the first part, and there's very little evidence of the second part.  There was on the other hand evidence of very worthwhile loanee who walked. Loans are useful for a club like us and we haven't seen much on that score since.

You're a prime example of the ridiculous irrational bile against the guy. He'd been managing successfully with very long terms in place at his clubs before he came here. Well respected throughout the sport. People like you were the problem.

Brentford fans would tell you that his assistant was the reason for their success. 

At Villa, he would have been relegated in his first season in the Premier League if it wasn't for the worst refereeing error in EPL history. 

Then Villa signed Buendia, probably the best player ever to play for Norwich City, and left him on the bench. Thankfully for Villa his successor realised that Emi was actually a very good player. 

At Leicester he achieved 0.8 points per game which was exactly the same as his predecessor. Not surprisingly they released him. 

Every time he moved he lasted less than the job before. 

The only reason he got the job here is that someone else let us down. He was a panic appointment and the performances on the pitch reflected that. 

Edited March 13 by dylanisabaddog

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Brentford fans would tell you that his assistant was the reason for their success. 

At Villa, he would have been relegated in his first season in the Premier League if it wasn't for the worst refereeing error in EPL history. 

Then Villa signed Buendia, probably the best player ever to play for Norwich City, and left him on the bench. Thankfully for Villa his successor realised that Emi was actually a very good player. 

At Leicester he achieved 0.8 points per game which was exactly the same as his predecessor. Not surprisingly they released him. 

Every time he moved he lasted less than the job before. 

The only reason he got the job here is that someone else let us down. He was a panic appointment and the performances on the pitch reflected that. 

Three managerial appointments over 10 years. Even the Aston villa appointment was a relatively long one by modern standards.

And a part of a manager's job is finding the right people to work with, so if his assistant deserves credit then that still reflects well on the decision-making of the manager.

Actually, your maths is wrong. His points per game at Leicester was better than his successor. His points per game were better than Farke with us in the prem, and his points per game were better than Wagner last season.

Only reason people took against him is a big hissy fit over relegation that anyone with any sense knew was inevitable whoever the manager was.

Like I said, it's done, we're on the right track, Wagner's a good egg, but don't kid yourself that the sacking of him and the persistent campaigning to get rid of him from the start is the season was a needless disruption; Wagner has taken us the same direction, hence the continued grumbles about our play not looking like ballet. Because that's more important than results post Farke, or was as far as judgement of Smith was concerned; Wagner's had a fairly easy ride on that score, having had the mob decide to go after Webber with their pitch forks after Smith.

Edited March 13 by littleyellowbirdie

[shefcanary 2,409]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Like I said, it's done,

So next time anyone criticises Smith can you just restrain your reply to a simple:

"Ahem"

We all can picture in our head what you will say, so no need to say it, we've read it a thousand times (no exaggeration).

You think he was hard done by, fair enough. Most people on here will say his face didn't fit and he didn't work hard enough to make it fit, which when coupled with the performances on the pitch warranted his removal.

Wagner has redeemed himself partially because he does communicate with the fans, appreciates his position at Norwich, and has finally got the team to play enjoyable football and win. If we win the play-offs he gets his shot at the EPL with us.

And look I didn't even mention golf, betting, delegating tactics to players, awful shoddy football. Or a mention of Farke.

[Sufyellow 222]

On 10/03/2024 at 10:00, Nuff Said said:

There seems to be a common belief that we cannot sell any of our best players. But, as ever, there’s a trade-off - a Buendia-sized fee for Rowe in exchange for say, a decent quality CB to play alongside Duffy/Hanley (if Hanley can regain his pre-injury level) and a destroyer at CDM might work in our favour.

For me, the crucial difference between our last two promotions would be not the team, but the tactics. Instead of the frankly suicidal Farke approach, a more realistic, pragmatic way of playing, designed to keep us up for one season, then buy a couple more players of the appropriate quality, and an extra year’s parachute payments if it fails, is what we ought to be looking at. Not to play Pep at his own game.
But then I thought Dean Smith was being pragmatic, so what do I know?

The tactics we use now , we would get destroyed. 

[Sufyellow 222]

On 10/03/2024 at 15:20, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Depends on what we can expect in terms of investment from MA+friends. 

Then also depends on how well our recruitment team can use that investment. 

Can we build a prem team? Yes absolutely, will we? Probably not. 

Why do you think we can build a premier league team? We don't have any money. We will not buy 20 million pound players. Not one player we have on the pitch are controlling the game. Sargent will get nothing like the chances he is getting now , and the rest have good moments in games which we remember and then forget the rest of the game.  

[ron obvious 1,502]

1 hour ago, Sufyellow said:

Why do you think we can build a premier league team? We don't have any money. We will not buy 20 million pound players. Not one player we have on the pitch are controlling the game. Sargent will get nothing like the chances he is getting now , and the rest have good moments in games which we remember and then forget the rest of the game.  

And I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left hand side ...

Edited March 15 by ron obvious

[ged in the onion bag 855]

Were just not ready….

Responding to the comments in this thread…

We couldn’t play like a Dyche team in the Prem, we just don’t have ‘ANY’ personnel to play that way and all our kids have been bought up to play pretty football… we aren’t that type of club.  

We’d need a new team.    Mention of 10 plus most definitely.    We have the following : -

Capable, Gunn, Sara,

Possibly capable, Stacey, Sargent, Rowe, Sainz, …….. but the last 3 only if we have players that can get the ball to them effectively and their attacking threat is not compromised by having to defend deep… which is what has happened the last two occasions.   

Reserves at best

McCallum, Nunez (not quick enough and too lightweight), Gibbs (we just don’t know), Sorensen is versatile.   

Not capable due to lack of speed, agility, strength, experience at that level….. Long, Fisher (unlikely), Batth, Duffy, Hanley, Gibson, Giannoulis, McLean (we just have to have better than that in the engine for the team to function at EPL level, wouldn’t have the room he gets now in the deep role), Hernandez, Barnes, Fassnacht.

That’s two definite and 4 possibles.   If anyone disputes that, please justify articulately.  It is the EPL remember.   We aren’t a robust, strong and quick team… all the attributes required, we don’t have.

We have at least 10 players out on loan and some doing very well.    None are likely to get any opportunity to progress with us if we go up, we will stick with the list above and expect miracles.  

Then you have to allow for injuries.    It’s real fantasy to think we can compete when there really aren’t adequate players and finances in place.    

We don’t ‘need’ promotion financially since all of that money will be consumed just in the promotion itself, just like it was the last two times.    

This team isn’t anywhere near as good as the past two promotion teams and look what happened…. Yes, poor recruitment… wrong players for the time.     What’s to say we will get that right next time?    In all likelihood we won’t.  

[hogesar 9,676]

On 15/03/2024 at 20:22, Sufyellow said:

The tactics we use now , we would get destroyed. 

I actually think we'd beat the points total we got under Farke. We'd still likely be relegated, mind.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I actually think we'd beat the points total we got under Farke. We'd still likely be relegated, mind.

How do you work that out.   We'd have no defence based on the current squad.   We've got one potential forward.   No CDM, only Sara in midfield, No Buendia type to create enough chances.   Sainz isn't Buendia, doesn't have his tenacity or ability to create as many chances.  Not quick enough, strong enough or technically good enough.   Not financially funded and our scouting and recruitment is not convincing.  

[hogesar 9,676]

12 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

How do you work that out.   We'd have no defence based on the current squad.   We've got one potential forward.   No CDM, only Sara in midfield, No Buendia type to create enough chances.   Sainz isn't Buendia, doesn't have his tenacity or ability to create as many chances.  Not quick enough, strong enough or technically good enough.   Not financially funded and our scouting and recruitment is not convincing.  

I think you're making pretty irrelevant comparisons.

We were considerably better than Brentford in the Championship, finishing with 10 points more than them. But who put up the better fight in the Premier League?

We don't need a Buendia to create chances in the Prem. Physically I think we're better than last time we went up, Sargent is a forward who can do more than one thing (Pukki could only play one way and was exceptional at it). Sara is a midfielder who has the physicality for the Prem. Sainz and Rowe are unknown quantities but for me offer a lot more to Prem style football than Tzolis and Rashica.

Stacey purely for his size reduces the huge defensive weakness we had at Prem level by playing Aarons every week.

We've seen how Farke's style of football is 10x harder to build a Premier League squad for - see Burnley this season who spent twice what we did. Farke's style of football DID require a Buendia.

We might not have a chance to find out but I'm happy to have a charity bet that should we get promoted, we finish on more points than we did in Farke's Prem season?

 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think you're making pretty irrelevant comparisons.

We were considerably better than Brentford in the Championship, finishing with 10 points more than them. But who put up the better fight in the Premier League?

We don't need a Buendia to create chances in the Prem. Physically I think we're better than last time we went up, Sargent is a forward who can do more than one thing (Pukki could only play one way and was exceptional at it). Sara is a midfielder who has the physicality for the Prem. Sainz and Rowe are unknown quantities but for me offer a lot more to Prem style football than Tzolis and Rashica.

Stacey purely for his size reduces the huge defensive weakness we had at Prem level by playing Aarons every week.

We've seen how Farke's style of football is 10x harder to build a Premier League squad for - see Burnley this season who spent twice what we did. Farke's style of football DID require a Buendia.

We might not have a chance to find out but I'm happy to have a charity bet that should we get promoted, we finish on more points than we did in Farke's Prem season?

 

Well, I think you've done as well as possible to justify your view here.    Sadly, I don't see it myself,    Your argument centres on our forward players (who are our main assets) and sadly, they won't get the ball in the right areas and with enough support around them (IMO) since we don't have enough structure and quality to the team and we won't be able to close the vast gap without a lot of money.   I think CDM's are a necessity nowadays.   Rowe is very hit and miss and I don't think consist enough yet.   Can he offer support defensively and an attacking threat, not sure.    But the fact is the defence is a major problem.   The only one's i would trust are Stacey, Sorensen and McCallum and that's as back-up options.   The rest are nowhere near the level.

Its not likely I know, but I'm up for your wager certainly, I will be hoping to donate by Xmas.    Whats the protocol for that?

[Capt. Pants 4,236]

How do we not get promoted though? Deliberately lose games so we don't get into the play-offs or play the U21s?

Fact remains you don't have to be the best team in the top 6 to win the play-offs. We could draw every game and go through on penalties, which is pretty much what Wagner's Huddersfield did.

We have numerous injuries, players unfit, makeshift CBs yet still we look one of the strongest teams.

[Jersey Canary 143]

On 10/03/2024 at 08:36, dylanisabaddog said:

Premier League standard 

Gunn

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent 

Sara

 

Borderline

Kenny

Nunez

 

Basically we would need to sign an entire back 4. On the plus side, defenders are the cheapest players to buy. 

Kenny is nowhere near PL standard. Too slow too error prone. Doesn’t score enough, doesn’t create enough etc. As you can gather I’ve never been his biggest fan. However, I will hold my hand up and when he’s played as a CB his long range passing has been very useful. Not so his short passing at times! 
 

Nunez is improving each game and could adapt to PL football as it’s less physical.