Indy_Bones

There's no arguing that we have some outstanding attacking talent in the England squad, or that we don't have players than can change a game as we clearly do, but in positional terms, almost none of them would be classed as the number 10 that Maddison is. Saka, Foden and Eze all operate primarily from the wings (although Foden can certainly move inside), Rice and Wharton are clearly not playing in advanced roles, Palmer has spent the vast majority of the season playing upfront or out wide for Chelsea, which means that the only 'official' competition for the number 10 role is Bellingham, and considering the outstanding season he's had at Madrid, would absolutely be chosen over Maddison, and certainly taking into account recent form. But I'd also argue that there is a place for Maddison in the squad, even if just to replace a tired or injured Bellingham, as nobody else in the side fits the role as neatly, and let's not forget how impressive Maddison is at finding great balls through to players, his ability to strike a ball - both in open play and from dead ball situations, and wouldn't require the manager to change tactics/style as much to shoehorn one of our other talented players in as a like for like replacement. His form really should be the only reason why he's not selected, not because we have players like Saka or Eze in the squad who play a completely different role, although it's blindingly obvious that for whatever reason Southgate prefers alternative choices and Maddison has never been given a fair chance in an England shirt with any consistency, yet the likes of Henderson and Maguire repeatedly got chosen despite poor form (or not even being played). I really do think that he's going to join the ranks of highly talented players who never got the chance to truly shine internationally, yet other, clearly weaker players get caps regardless, and it saddens me when this happens, especially when the likes of Downing, Welbeck, Delph, Rose, Dier and numerous others got games they arguably shouldn't have, yet players like Maddison and Tomori can't get a game, never mind make the squad at times...

Problem is that I'm not even sure how much that helps us, as Barnes has looked totally unsuited to the lone striker role when Sarg was previously injured, and what's more, he'll be coming back in not at 100% anyway. I feel that we could have lost almost anyone else from the side and managed to shoehorn in a vaguely suitable replacement, with the exception being Sargent and now look what's happened! SVH has looked frankly like a non-league player in the very limited minutes he has been given, to the point where I'd rather bring in someone from the U21 side than him, Aboh would be the obvious shout if he's still here and available, hell, I'd even take Darren Eadie out of the commentary box and play him instead!

Respectfully, I don't think it's daft at all to suggest we'd need 10+ players to improve the squad to the level required to at least stay in the prem. We've struggled this season in the champs with our current squad, and that would only be worse once we're up against the likes of Man City and Arsenal, rather than Rotherham and QPR! Our squad is barely capable as it is with a few minor injuries, and there are bound to be a number of departures from players on high wages at the end of their contracts, be this Gibson, Dimi or similar. Also, players like Duffy aren't magically going to get any younger or fitter, so whilst they may still be able to do a job at this level, put them up against top level players next season and see how quickly we drop. Fisher isn't ready to cover for Stacey, both of McCallum and Dimi could well go along with Gibson, and are we convinced that Hanley and or Duffy are really what we need next year, so already we're arguably on 4 players just for the backline (5 if Dimi and Sam leave, unless you want McLean or Lungi there?). Similarly in midfield, we still need that solid presence in the centre we haven't had since Tettey/Skipp, if Sara's out for any length of time it just gets worse, not to mention that Fassnacht has yet to impress, Rowe could well be gone (if he's not injured again), Barnes like Duffy isn't getting any younger or quicker, and if Sarge is out, then we're really in trouble. You also agree with need a better backup than Long, so already we're pretty much at that 10+ players requirement, unless you somehow think we can hobble through a premier league season with half of that, depsite not even setting the world alight this year in the champs with the same players! The squad desperately needs a refresh, the problem as rightly identified is that it probably costs more than we have available to get both the quality and quantity of replacements in to acheive this, that's the conundrum that Knapper has to untangle, and it only gets more complicated should we go up (even if it's a nice problem to have to solve in that instance).

And therein lies the issue, if staying up consistently, means playing defensive, god awful hoofball relying on overly physical players, then I'd rather yo-yo between the prem and champs than watch that rubbish each week. Look at Stoke under Pulis, terrible football to watch but it kept them up, when they tried to be more creative it started going downhill, and they've never recovered since. The problem is that this 'evolution over time', is almost a myth, the only way this happens is if significant money is pumped into the side on a regular basis to deal with new players and increasingly higher wages to keep that evolution going, and that's simply not going to happen here for the forseeable future. People point out Brentford as example of doing things on a relatively limited budget, yet despite being able to stay up for a couple of seasons, they're currently only 5 points ahead of Luton ffs, they're in a relegation battle still and already miles behind where they finished last season, so where's this evolution over time then? 3 years in the prem and yet they're worse this year than when they came up! I'd much rather we played exciting attacking football, be this like under Stringer/Walker/Lambert/Farke and their differing approaches, then EVER go back down the Hughton route (which Wagner can be akin to at times), and if we get outplayed our outmuscled, then so be it. You could offer me the premier league title with champions league football, but if it was acheived by parking the bus, playing dire, overly defensive dross each week whilst scraping out 1-0 wins, then you can keep it, and I'd rather we went down than watch that garbage match after match. I want to be entertained, I want to see skillful dribbling, outstanding passes, outrageous finishes and a style of play that celebrates everything great about football, not 11 thugs on a pitch hoping to score from a set piece and then putting 10 men in defence...

As a third choice option, I wouldn't have an issue with that, but if Sarge was out for an extended period, I'd not be comfortable relying on Idah to keep us together, and would rather utilise him as an impact sub for tiring legs etc.

The key issue is that outside of 4-6 players with a sprinkling of promising youngsters, the whole squad needs a total refresh, which probably does include an entire backline, 1-2 central/defensive mids, better wingers to cover injuries/suspensions to Sainz & Rowe, not to mention at least 2 strikers as currently without Sarge we're screwed up front. None of that is going to come cheap and would require a level of spending and investment that we've never seen before at the club, somewhat akin to the likes of Fulham/Forest spending 100mil + to get the genuine quality we'd need - unless Knapper has some bargains in the pipeline in the mould of Zimbo, Buendia, Madders etc who we got for very little but were excellent. On paper, especially if we the Attansio situation gets resolved, it's somewhat doable, but even then, it's still a VERY big ask, especially as with that amount of new players coming in at once, the integration time and learning the system and tactics could mean the start to the season would be incredibly rough, and given our history of being handed pretty awful opening fixtures, it could put us on a very negative spiral right from the off. Either way, I'm intruiged to see what Knapper's longer term plan is here, be this if we get promoted or not, but critical and decisive choices will need to be made either way.

You've pinpointed the exact issue here though, his strength wasn't in build up play, or in being a pacy striker looking to utilise that extra half yard of space, he absolutely was more of a poacher type player, but to be able to produce anything in that role you are utterly reliant on getting quality supply that find that movement for a close range finish, instead he got virtually ZERO useful balls into his movement (which was genuinely very good at the start of his time with us), and Hughton basically asked him to play as a lone forward holding the ball up a'la Andy Carroll and their ilk - it was NEVER going to work. Interesting that his penalty prowess is brought up, which is why it was so utterly frustrating when Snodgrass refused to let him take it against Villa and then stuffed it up completely, would have been a massive boost to RvW's confidence if we'd scored from that, and let's not forget this is the same Snodgrass who was instrumental in giving him nothing to work with in terms of supply either... If you're going to utilise a poacher, as a team you have to accept their inherent weaknesses and play totally into their specific niche, which if you do can lead to an awful lot of goals, but on the flip side, you have to accept that they will frequently offer little more to the team than goals and be willing and able to deal with the additional workload on the rest of the side. There's a reason why this type of player has virtually died out in the modern game, and also why complete forwards like Haaland are the most valuable and sought after in football. Andy Cole was notorious for freuqently needing numerous chances to score, but the difference was that Man Utd were willing and able to keeping providing them - we didn't...

That RvW was a genuinely good striker, who Hughton totalled mis-used, and pretty much destroyed him as a player. In the right system, with the correct supply (like how we focused on getting the right balls to Pukki), he'd easily have been a 15+ goal a season striker, we did the exact opposite of that, and instead asked him to play a role he was unfamiliar with and unsuited to - both physically and mentally...

I actually think that even if we do get promoted via the play-offs, that the decision to retain Wagner or not would truthfully come down to whether or not Knapper would be able to get in any of his preferred targets. There's been strong speculation around Cuesta and that he was waiting until the summer to consider any possible offer, part of which may even come down to what league we are in, and I genuinely believe that if the opportunity is there, Knapper will seize it, thank Wagner for his work and look to develop the squad a different way. I'd also argue, that even if we get the promotion AND retain Wagner, the football we've seen under his tenure would get us slaughtered in the Prem, and I've seen little evidence of likely change in tactics or approach from Wagner to suggest anything otherwise, even if we got some good new players in the summer. The players appear to be backing Wagner which is a clear point in his favour, but much like Hughton, I can't take to his overall style of play, especially when we approach games like we did against Southampton, as in the Prem we'd be outclassed by most teams, and I can't stomach watching that defensive minded dross for 90 minutes each week, give me Lambert's gung-ho mentality, give me Farkeball, give me the Norwich under Stringer or Walker, but never again stuff like Hughton, or for that matter like Wagner far too often. It's frustrating in a way, as like with Hughton, I don't dislike the guy at all (in fact Hughton presented himself superbly and spoke extremely well), but as much as I can appreciate the man behind the manager, I need to enjoy what I'm watching, and if we can genuinely get in an exciting coach like Cuesta who could get us playing in a more convincing and attractive way, I'd rather take that gamble and thank Wagner than simply hope for the best if we don't make a change...

I'm not entirely sure that would be the case though Mason, on one hand we would have the far greater finances provided simply by being in the PL, but on the flip side of that, you need a much higher calibre of player alongside it which carries a equivalent cost as well - especially when in reality we need to replace a signifcant number of our starting XI to even have the vaguest chance of staying up if that happens. We'd probably need virtually an entire back 4 as Gibson, Batth, Dimi and McCallum are likely leaving/out of contract, and Stacey desperately needs stronger cover than Fisher at that level. Hanley and Duffy are knocking on as well, and I doubt either of Warner or Tomkimson are anywhere near ready to be regular starters in the prem for that matter.. In midfield we've been crying out for a Tettey/Skipp type player, McLean isn't getting any younger and isn't as impressive in the PL as in the champs, Fassnacht has struggled to even show what's needed at this level, and in many ways Nunez still provides the conundrum of exactly what is his best role and he's yet to truly show the ability he displayed when he first arrived with any consistency since either. Whether or not we can even keep Rowe beyond the summer is another major concern, we may have an outside chance of him staying IF we were to get promoted and offer him a vastly improved contract, but money talks, and a significant offer (especially if he decides he wants the move) puts an end to that entire conversation. Upfront we have basically Sarge and the unproven as yet SVH (who we may not even buy) with the jury out on Idah (if he even returns from his loan) and Barnes is not what we need, which means the most expensive position to get quality in is where we arguably need it most, as another injury to Sarge leaves us in a real mess. Not to mention that we look far weaker without Gunn in goal, so potentially another keeper to replace Long is required, as I wouldn't trust him for any extended period of time. All of that isn't cheap, and not forgetting that you've then got the potential issue of integrating numerous players at once, ideally under a different system and different manager as most of us aren't convinced that Wagner is the man (again further cost). I'm not surprised that Knapper is taking his time over decisions, as from an external view, it's a big ask to make all these changes (many of which are very necessary) whilst still operating with a much lower budget than many of our counterparts, and we don't have owners who are going to throw 200 million or so at players in the way that the likes of Forest or Fulham have done. I think we've been sensible in this window, offloaded a few squad players to save wages, given Idah the chance to show if he can finally live up to his potential or not, and left a clear option there to replace Wagner in or just before the summer when the main rebuild is needed and no point buying multiple players for the current boss if we intend to change it all in a few months time. Going to be an interesting 6 months I think, could be good, bad or very ugly though...

Don't know about cheap, but I still wonder if there's any possibility we could convince Lucien Favre to come here, had his work cut out at a badly run Nice who much like us bought a lot of the wrong players in the summer, but would be ideal for a longer term commitment and willingness to let his ideas and style of play shine, he's always been excellent at developing youth, and tactically is unbelievably proficient. Said he doesn't want to go back to managing in the Bundesliga, but I do wonder if our star has fallen too far for him to even consider taking over a club at this level, but stranger things have happened, and is so far above most of the names we're likely to be linked with, I'd rather we asked the question and got politely rejected than assume it's a non-starter.

I'd agree with most of that aside from 2-3 exceptions. Gibbs shouldn't be going anywhere, there's a quality player in there but needs to be used correctly and given game time. Similarly, Stacey looked very good when he first arrived, and I think he's more than decent enough at this level whilst helping Fisher develop. Springett should be loaned out for a full season and if no obvious improvement then let him go. I'm also slightly on the fence around Fassnacht, seems to be technically decent but lacking in pace and doesn't work with the way we're setup at present, another vaguely ok squad option but not really fussed either way tbh. The rest can pretty much go, as although Duffy has had a few excellent games, his lack of pace is only going to get worse, and if we want to improve as a side, then the likes of Warner need chances rather than ageing journeymen IMHO.

Zimbo is exactly the kind of model pro that all young footballers should aspire to, shame others aren't more like him.

No, it's because Madders is coming from a relegated side who really need a rebuild, whereas Chelsea can afford to demand a bigger premium as they have necessity to sell Mount. If Leicester had stayed up, I could easily see them demanding the same amount as being touted for Mount to let Maddison go, but that's the price of relegation, and a champs club getting 40 mil for a player must be a new record - even if it's less than I think he's actually worth in relative terms.

And therein lies the difference TDK. Even when he was playing his best football with us, there was still the incessant focus on his social media, his personal appearance and numerous other factors that had nothing to do with what he was offering on the pitch from a percentage of our fan base. This wasn't love from the stands, it was a minor witch hunt from smaller minded people who wanted to focus on the non-football part of the player instead of what actually mattered. Clearly this had an impact on him on a personal level, alongside other potential issues behind the scenes (that none of us know for sure what happened), and it's no surprise that his performances and apparent attitude tipped as time went on, and it all ended up being a bit acrimonious and from that aspect I can understand a degree of potential bitterness from him about the whole. It's incredibly easy for us to sit here and look at the wages and the fame and pay no attention to how these things impact your daily life, outlook and demeanour, and I do feel that if there'd been less focus on this, and more on getting behind the lad, then it could have been very different. In the end, the move was the best choice for all parties, and I'm pleased he's back enjoying his football and getting the plaudits he deserves from the Rangers fans, because much like getting rid of Farke and Buendia, the handling of Cantwell seems to have been another failure to some degree from the club, and certainly from the fans who hounded him relentlessly, and it could all have been very different IMHO.