Wagner better than Farke

[MC_NCFC 67]

Hear me out.

Emi = Rowe

Sargent = Pukki

Now it was well known that when Emi didn’t play, we didn’t tend to win.

It was also know that Pukki was very rarely injured if ever? If he had 20 games out like Sargent, would we have been more successful than this season?

Could it be Wagner is the best coach we have had in a generation?

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

Just now, MC_NCFC said:

Hear me out.

Emi = Rowe

Sargent = Pukki

Now it was well known that when Emi didn’t play, we didn’t tend to win.

It was also know that Pukki was very rarely injured if ever? If he had 20 games out like Sargent, would we have been more successful than this season?

Could it be Wagner is the best coach we have had in a generation?

I heard you out.

The answer is: no, don't be silly.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,730]

Farke- Two promotions with Norwich

 

Wagner- No promotions with Norwich

[BroadstairsR 2,173]

Nonsense.

DF is managing the Leeds squad with ease. He was sent into battle without a gun at Carrow Road remember?

Prior to that, we bossed the Chumps under Farke. We are aiming for 6th. place under Wagner.

Sniff, sniff?

 

 

[Crafty Canary 496]

Farke was the best coach we had since Lambert and Wagner is the best since Farke.. just a shame that the forum numpty experts can’t see it.

[hogesar 9,676]

We did struggle without Emi under Farke. God knows how we'd have coped with Pukki out for half the season.

What I can say is Farke rightly built the entire side around Pukki and Emi, whilst Wagner has rightly built the side around Sargent.

[Capt. Pants 4,241]

Emi was way better than Rowe. Sargent also scores the scruffy goals that Pukki didn't, as well as good ones.

Farke > Wagner as the current league table shows.

There's no real point in comparing who was the better manager as different time, different place, different squads, different context.

Let's judge at the end of the season...

 

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

29 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Wagner is the best since Farke.. just a shame that the forum numpty experts can’t see it.

There's only been Dean ****ing Smith inbetween to be fair 🤣

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

Not an argument I thought I'd be seeing made out ever 😄

[Ian 1,129]

Very strange comparison (and I do anticipate this is a bit of a wind-up), but Wagner has achieved nothing with Norwich yet.

If he somehow gets us up, and somehow we survive in the top tier it will be a valid argument to have, until then Farke is clearly head and shoulders above Wagner.

[Fen Canary 828]

If he gets us up and keeps us up I’ll say he’s done a better job than Farke, but you can’t look past Farke winning the league twice, even if he had in my opinion a stronger squad (and more luck with injuries to top players). 
Since Walker my list would be 

Lambert

Farke/Worthy

Hughton (full but effective)

Neil/Wagner

The rest

Rodent

 

[jaberry2 550]

44 minutes ago, MC_NCFC said:

Hear me out.

Emi = Rowe

Sargent = Pukki

Now it was well known that when Emi didn’t play, we didn’t tend to win.

It was also know that Pukki was very rarely injured if ever? If he had 20 games out like Sargent, would we have been more successful than this season?

Could it be Wagner is the best coach we have had in a generation?

Rowe is nowhere near the standard of Emi

[Surfer 1,547]

You are comparing the wrong player - Emi = Sainz

[S_81 801]

Wagner has achieved nothing with us at present. So the answer to your question is no. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,049]

Farke is one of our very best ever. I like Wagner, but he has loads to do before he gets near Sir Daniel.

[Yobocop 1,099]

2 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

If he gets us up and keeps us up I’ll say he’s done a better job than Farke, but you can’t look past Farke winning the league twice, even if he had in my opinion a stronger squad (and more luck with injuries to top players). 
Since Walker my list would be 

Lambert

Farke/Worthy

Hughton (full but effective)

Neil/Wagner

The rest

Rodent

 

Agreed 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 446]

3 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

Farke was the best coach we had since Lambert and Wagner is the best since Farke.. just a shame that the forum numpty experts can’t see it.

"Wagner is the best since Farke"

Literally only Dean Smith between Farke and Wagner?

[chicken 2,627]

2 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Farke is one of our very best ever. I like Wagner, but he has loads to do before he gets near Sir Daniel.

I think if you are saying ever, he's struggling to get top 5. Very different era and arguably a much tougher one but the '80's to mid '90's were full of sustained top flight football and European qualification.

Worthington took us up with a very cheap, aging squad and came very close to keeping us there. I also thing he's due a lot of credit for turning us into a club that dared to believe again, and proved that we didn't have to spend big, just be screwed.

Grant was passionate but came up far too short. Roeder was just rotten. Gunn the fall guy.

Lambert came out of nowhere but with Culverhouse and Karsa put down the basis of what we have now. IMHO the best period of this century so far. Hughton almost certainly succeeded on having a set up that going forward, was working. When he messed with it, we went down.

Adams, for me, properly brought in a better pathway for our youth. I think we've seen that we should have been providing the FA Youth Cup winning side with a better pathway. I believe he brought that to the fore in ways it hadn't been before. Vision perhaps? Arguably supported by his impact on youngsters since. I'm not sure that if we'd not had Adam's as manager that Alex Neil would have got us promoted or we would have seen the success of the youngsters under Webber and Farke. Lacking as he may have been ultimately as a manager.

Alex Neil was a weird one. Gave us the extra percentages needed to get us into the play-offs then to win them. I actually believe he represents a mirror image to Adams. Wasn't keen on providing a pathway for youth, his signings were largely unsuccessful, but his management of the players he inherited got more out of them. 

Farke had two promotions but also two very poor seasons in the Premier league based upon results. He did worse than Neil and Worthington despite getting a second go at it and no wins in ten games. 100% other managers would have gone before then.

Smith was brought in to try and bring an edge to our premier league soft underbelly. What he couldn't do is seemingly turn around the moral and get the squad bouncing again.

Wagner has been here one year. He's not had the relatively clean slate Farke had. He's not had the grace Lambert was afforded probably down to the shock of our position. He inherited a squad in transition that needed balancing in terms of positions but also in terms of mentality and the one thing Farke sides seemed to miss, game management, something Jerome, Johnson, Morriston, Holt and others had in abundance. It was a mish mash of Farke and Smith still, and somehow he has had to try and mold something out of a bunch of parts and some cheap additions.

He's not done yet, we can only judge him once we establish what his peak is. If he gets us up and keeps us there he's done better than Farke. He's achieved more.

 

 

 

 

[Newtopia 517]

DF is a legend - him and Webber created a team from the nothing.

DW has done a really fine job.  The players seem to like him and have genuine team spirit.  We have played well when we have a fit squad, and we seem to have less depth at the moment, and I assume that is due to a lack of cash.  If he gets us up, with all the adversity he has endured and I think that would be an amazing achievement.

[yellowrider120 763]

5 hours ago, MC_NCFC said:

Hear me out.

Emi = Rowe

Sargent = Pukki

Now it was well known that when Emi didn’t play, we didn’t tend to win.

It was also know that Pukki was very rarely injured if ever? If he had 20 games out like Sargent, would we have been more successful than this season?

Could it be Wagner is the best coach we have had in a generation?

OMG - a win against a seriously poor Cardiff and suddenly the boy Wagner is propelled to these heights!! Some fans are so easily seduced.

[mastoola 183]

5 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Farke- Two promotions with Norwich

 

Wagner- No promotions with Norwich

dont agree with the OP but wagner hasnt has the chance yet

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Think OP might need an osteopath for that stretch.

[Fen Canary 828]

22 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

DF is a legend - him and Webber created a team from the nothing.

DW has done a really fine job.  The players seem to like him and have genuine team spirit.  We have played well when we have a fit squad, and we seem to have less depth at the moment, and I assume that is due to a lack of cash.  If he gets us up, with all the adversity he has endured and I think that would be an amazing achievement.

I’m not sure they created it from nothing. They inherited a side that had recently come down from the top flight and finished just outside the playoffs the season before so there was talent there, though they did exceedingly well to swap some underachieving high earners with some talent from the German lower leagues. Even then we forget it took Farke over a year and the addition of Pukki and Buendia to get them playing well, that first season was incredibly tedious at times watching them play a thousand passes without the guile to beak down the opposition defence.

Wagner has now had a year himself (plus players coming back from injury) and it’s much better now than it has been at any point during his tenure 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

When we are confident with most of our best players available, Wagnerball is a better watch than Farkeball. I'd also wager it would be more efficient in the Prem. Main problem is it's so reliant on a Sargent type striker to constantly keep the opposition defence worried and sitting deeper than they would otherwise. 

[canarybubbles 1,923]

Good clickbait. Cambridge, read and learn. 😉

[BroadstairsR 2,173]

2 hours ago, Mr.Carrow said:

When we are confident with most of our best players available, Wagnerball is a better watch than Farkeball. I'd also wager it would be more efficient in the Prem. Main problem is it's so reliant on a Sargent type striker to constantly keep the opposition defence worried and sitting deeper than they would otherwise. 

No!. Neither manager were able to construct a consistently efficient defence. Farke much better than Wagner though.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

11 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

If he gets us up and keeps us up I’ll say he’s done a better job than Farke, but you can’t look past Farke winning the league twice, even if he had in my opinion a stronger squad (and more luck with injuries to top players). 
Since Walker my list would be 

Lambert

Farke/Worthy

Hughton (full but effective)

Neil/Wagner

The rest

Rodent

 

In weighing up Farke, I don't think you can ignore the worst relegation in the club's history, coupled with being on target for a worse one the second time around when he was sacked. We can definitely do better and actually it'd be best for everyone if it was under Wagner instead of a chunk of fans eternally looking back, at an overrated but charismatic manager who clapped the fans, instead of looking forwards.

 

Edited February 18 by littleyellowbirdie

[Fen Canary 828]

54 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

In weighing up Farke, I don't think you can ignore the worst relegation in the club's history, coupled with being on target for a worse one the second time around when he was sacked. We can definitely do better and actually it'd be best for everyone if it was under Wagner instead of a chunk of fans eternally looking back, at an overrated but charismatic manager who clapped the fans, instead of looking forwards.

 

You also can’t ignore 2 title wins as well though. I’ve put him level with Worthy because while he achieved it twice, I think Worthy started from a much worse position and did a much better job in his attempt at keeping us up so I find it hard to seperate them 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

23 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

You also can’t ignore 2 title wins as well though. I’ve put him level with Worthy because while he achieved it twice, I think Worthy started from a much worse position and did a much better job in his attempt at keeping us up so I find it hard to seperate them 

Absolutely not ignoring them, but I'd also add that he had a whole season of indifferent performance at championship level before it started really coming together, and Wagner has now had a bit over one whole season of championship football for it to appear to be starting to come together, underlining that the club's patience with new managers is wise, and fans who think they know better should think twice before rocking the boat to the point it capsizes like they did with Smith.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,049]

8 hours ago, chicken said:

I think if you are saying ever, he's struggling to get top 5. Very different era and arguably a much tougher one but the '80's to mid '90's were full of sustained top flight football and European qualification.

Worthington took us up with a very cheap, aging squad and came very close to keeping us there. I also thing he's due a lot of credit for turning us into a club that dared to believe again, and proved that we didn't have to spend big, just be screwed.

Grant was passionate but came up far too short. Roeder was just rotten. Gunn the fall guy.

Lambert came out of nowhere but with Culverhouse and Karsa put down the basis of what we have now. IMHO the best period of this century so far. Hughton almost certainly succeeded on having a set up that going forward, was working. When he messed with it, we went down.

Adams, for me, properly brought in a better pathway for our youth. I think we've seen that we should have been providing the FA Youth Cup winning side with a better pathway. I believe he brought that to the fore in ways it hadn't been before. Vision perhaps? Arguably supported by his impact on youngsters since. I'm not sure that if we'd not had Adam's as manager that Alex Neil would have got us promoted or we would have seen the success of the youngsters under Webber and Farke. Lacking as he may have been ultimately as a manager.

Alex Neil was a weird one. Gave us the extra percentages needed to get us into the play-offs then to win them. I actually believe he represents a mirror image to Adams. Wasn't keen on providing a pathway for youth, his signings were largely unsuccessful, but his management of the players he inherited got more out of them. 

Farke had two promotions but also two very poor seasons in the Premier league based upon results. He did worse than Neil and Worthington despite getting a second go at it and no wins in ten games. 100% other managers would have gone before then.

Smith was brought in to try and bring an edge to our premier league soft underbelly. What he couldn't do is seemingly turn around the moral and get the squad bouncing again.

Wagner has been here one year. He's not had the relatively clean slate Farke had. He's not had the grace Lambert was afforded probably down to the shock of our position. He inherited a squad in transition that needed balancing in terms of positions but also in terms of mentality and the one thing Farke sides seemed to miss, game management, something Jerome, Johnson, Morriston, Holt and others had in abundance. It was a mish mash of Farke and Smith still, and somehow he has had to try and mold something out of a bunch of parts and some cheap additions.

He's not done yet, we can only judge him once we establish what his peak is. If he gets us up and keeps us there he's done better than Farke. He's achieved more.

 

 

 

 

The first title win came from a load of youth players, misfits and freebies. The second was literally the best season at that level in the club's history. He failed in the PL in the covid season but we spent £750k that year! The second season he didn't even get half way through so we'll never know, although with that squad I'm not sure Pep would have kept us up. In any case, the football we saw was without doubt the best I've ever seen. I take your point re. Walker, Stringer, Worthington etc but the game has changed beyond all recognition nowadays so it's not as easy as saying 'Walker finished third in the Premier League so he's the best.' or whatever. In my book Farke is right, right up there in terms of winning things and playing some incredible football along the way.

Wagner we will wait and see, but I like him and hope he does go down as one of our great managers, but you're right, we can't judge him yet.