Wagner has to go?

[Conrad 170]

Unfortunately it appears that Wagner has become a marmite person for most fans. - either liked or not, with no middle ground. To reunite the fan base and move forward in a unified way surely Wagner has to go in the summer (at the latest) irrespective of our position in the league?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,742]

I do feel that should we not finish in the playoffs he will be off at the end of the season

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

Whilst it’s unlikely to happen, it would be a really strange turn of events to get promoted and bin the manager just because some fans don’t like him. 

[Satriales 655]

If we actually do make the playoffs, would the board see that as a success, even if we don't get promoted?

[crab man 164]

The fanbase will never be in agreement regardless of which manager we have... There were those who wanted to give Dean Smith more time.
Given the injuries we've had this season, Wagner is doing okay and we are now moving in the right direction . 

Unless there is someone better available it makes no sense to change, so lets see where we are in the summer. 
 

[Coneys Knee 977]

14 minutes ago, Satriales said:

If we actually do make the playoffs, would the board see that as a success, even if we don't get promoted?

I guess it would be hard to call that anything other than a success.

[Nexus_Canary 1,020]

Wagner is a way better manager than Dean Smith.
I would argue he would be a good one if he didnt keep making such poor tactical substitutions.

Fresh blood new start unless we make the play off finals to be honest.

[mannings bandy legs 389]

50 minutes ago, Satriales said:

If we actually do make the playoffs, would the board see that as a success, even if we don't get promoted?

This board would class avoiding relegation as a success!!!

[stratton canary 134]

7 minutes ago, mannings bandy legs said:

This board would class avoiding relegation as a success!!!

 

7 minutes ago, mannings bandy legs said:

This board would class avoiding relegation as a success!!!

Now there's the problem! 

[Segura 84]

I'm not sure that he's marmite, more just a bit meh.

He's a decent guy who I'd like to see do well, but I don't think he's shown anything to demonstrate that's anything other than an average boss at this level - yes he's had some rum old injuries, but we're probably performing at level par, nothing more or less.

I get the feeling that he knows his time will be up here sooner rather than later, but I think he should be given a chance to see this season out first.

[canarybubbles 1,923]

Personally I just hope it's clear. Either he gets us promoted or he has another bad run and we get nowhere near the playoffs. 

[GenerationA47 755]

34 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said:

I guess it would be hard to call that anything other than a success.

I think the loaded phrase ‘a success of sorts’ might be apt

 

 Smith left us at 5th place (but sinking) in Dec last season

Wagner joined us in 12th place in Jan and took us to 13th last season

Now we’re in 9th place

 

Finishing in the play-offs in May would be an improvement on where we are now, on what Wagner originally inherited, & on what he’s managed with us do far. It could indicate a potential springboard for next season given smarter work in the summer than we’ve seen.

You could say it would be an unexpected bonus, given the last 2 seasons and our autumn injury crisis.
 

Unfortunately it’s partly Wagner’s own track record with us (and his last couple of jobs) that  lowered the bar, I’m afraid (as well as Smith’s mediocre performances twice on the heels of false promise, since  I assume most would agree he didn’t look like turning the ship around.

[shefcanary 2,410]

From today's presser, Wagner implies SvH was never going to get on the pitch, he was only on the bench to enable him to become accustomed to English Championship life. But no outfield U21 player was allowed to enjoy the same experience at Liverpool. The man makes it up as he goes along, if he doesn't have the script in front of him. I'd now say he got lucky with the subs versus Coventry, as he got it totally wrong versus QPR. He has to admit to mistakes, if he takes the plaudits.

I just don't trust him and that is my main problem with him. Trust has to be earned tis true, it could be a language issue but he has lived in UK long enough now for that to be no longer an issue, but he doesn't do enough to justify me placing any trust in him or his approach to matches. 

We can still muddle through to the play-offs, though in spite of him, but he has to improve on tactics, selections and substitutions as well as his press briefings. Not much then ... 🙂 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

From today's presser, Wagner implies SvH was never going to get on the pitch, he was only on the bench to enable him to become accustomed to English Championship life. But no outfield U21 player was allowed to enjoy the same experience at Liverpool. The man makes it up as he goes along, if he doesn't have the script in front of him. I'd now say he got lucky with the subs versus Coventry, as he got it totally wrong versus QPR. He has to admit to mistakes, if he takes the plaudits.

I just don't trust him and that is my main problem with him. Trust has to be earned tis true, it could be a language issue but he has lived in UK long enough now for that to be no longer an issue, but he doesn't do enough to justify me placing any trust in him or his approach to matches. 

We can still muddle through to the play-offs, though in spite of him, but he has to improve on tactics, selections and substitutions as well as his press briefings. Not much then ... 🙂 

This.............

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

24 minutes ago, stratton canary said:

 

Now there's the problem! 

It would only be a problem if it was true.

[BigFish 1,988]

1 hour ago, Conrad said:

Unfortunately it appears that Wagner has become a marmite person for most fans. - either liked or not, with no middle ground. To reunite the fan base and move forward in a unified way surely Wagner has to go in the summer (at the latest) irrespective of our position in the league?

Just what we need, another Wagner out thread. Uniting the fans is just utter tosh, what would unite the fans is winning football matches, and even then there are some on here who wouldn't be happy with that. Without knowing what Knapper has in mind this is just futile. It maybe there is someone lined up, it may be that is that Wagner will continue anyway, whatever the end of the season brings.

Edited February 12 by BigFish

[hogesar 9,690]

I really don't get the fascination in talking about sacking a manager mid play-off push during our most sustained run of results ever under said manager.

Surely this can wait till the end of the season.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,742]

1 hour ago, Coneys Knee said:

I guess it would be hard to call that anything other than a success.

We have about the third or fourth highest wages in the divison if I remember right. One of the most expensive squads too, baring Leicester, so yeah not being in the playoffs would not be ideal

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

I am totally fed up with this stream of negative threads by those who have an agenda that frankly seems far removed from any reality.

[Move Klose 303]

Imagine thinking this coach will get us finishing in the top 6, absolutely no chance. 

Save It, screenshot it, book mark it, I don't care it ain't happening.

 

[ricardo 7,395]

Just another pointless spin of the wheel.

We did set out on a different path but didn't have the confidence to stay with it when times got rough, so now we just do what everyone else does and spin the wheel again hoping to land on a winning number.

[For the future 65]

He’s not going anywhere because the club wants to stay in the championship and no premier league.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

He’s a relic of a previous football director, he’s clearly phoning it in and his recent successes have confused and surprised him as much as everyone else.

The whole thing is disjointed and I believe Knapper should have an opportunity to pick his own manager, surely?

[repman 635]

We're simply not a well coached football team and that comes down to him and his staff. While the squad isn't perfect it is comfortably in the top 6 in my opinion. It's got a selection of truly outstanding players for this level (Gunn, Sara, Rowe, Sargent) and plenty of players who are above average. 

In my view we haven't looked like a properly cohesive side since the first few games of the season, the underlying numbers support the fact that we are essentially a mid table side. 

As it stands I don't think Wagner is adding any value to the squad, whereas a different coach could do so. Obviously as we near the end of the season that potential impact diminishes.

[king canary 7,609]

It's a bit silly to say he has to go.

I'm not bought in as I can't shake the feeling this form isn't built on steady foundations. Wagner has always been streaky and I wouldn't be shocked if we went on another 1 win in 10 type of run before the season ends. However it's churlish to jump on the first bit of struggle in a while and demand a sacking.

[jaberry2 550]

3 hours ago, Conrad said:

Unfortunately it appears that Wagner has become a marmite person for most fans. - either liked or not, with no middle ground. To reunite the fan base and move forward in a unified way surely Wagner has to go in the summer (at the latest) irrespective of our position in the league?

TBH the squad is pretty dross other than the first team 11. I doubt many managers could get better out of this team. Will take time to put right especially in our existing financial position.

[Conrad 170]

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

It's a bit silly to say he has to go.

I'm not bought in as I can't shake the feeling this form isn't built on steady foundations. Wagner has always been streaky and I wouldn't be shocked if we went on another 1 win in 10 type of run before the season ends. However it's churlish to jump on the first bit of struggle in a while and demand a sacking.

My original question doesn't relate to the team's form, rather whether it is necessary for Wagner to go in order that the fan base might start to come together again. Or would the cycle just start all over again whoever the new manager might be? Groundhog day. A cycle that we might never get out of again as it is impossible to satisfy all of the people all of the time.

[S_81 803]

He’ll be judged at the end of the season, now. At one point it looked like that would be Jan - but the Knapper handover timing saved him. As did an upturn in results, to be fair. Indeed, that upturn could continue - but it very much hinges on him overthinking his substitutions - an area which he is largely poor at when it comes to changing a game for the better. 
 

I’ve said from the start that Wagner never gets us promoted. I’ll say I was wrong if he does. But I hope a lack of promotion this season doesn’t keep him in the job for next. Should we make the play offs (I don’t think we will) then it will be very hard to sack him really, even if we lose them at either stage. 

[Samwam27 528]

As someone has said, while he may come across as likeable, he doesn't enthuse me or give me any confidence we're improving.

We haven't dominated any games this season, and for every great win (e.g. Coventry) we then fail to build on it next game, like we did against QPR. That's been the story of the season, you hope we'll crack on and then we get stuck in yet another streak of bad results

It's also the Norwich way, that when we recruit a new player we seem to have to give them 6 months before we play them.

Up next is Watford, our bogey team, and whilst I want us to do well, I just can't get enthusiastic about our chances under Wagner.

We aren't going to sack him this season, unless we reach a point where we can't make the play-offs,but I've reached the point where a fresh start in the close season under Knapper and new manager is what I hope for.   

[For the future 65]

Next season?