KiwiScot 1,489 Posted December 10, 2022 2 things. Credit to the French defence who kept threats becoming chances and the ref who should have given England far more decisions. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 766 Posted December 10, 2022 Maguire and Stones not quite good enough defensively at this level - their second goal is criminal defending. Can’t complain too much though with the result or performance really. Southgate future an interesting one. Seems to do well by the younger lads, but also tends to be more cautious. When you look at the balance of the squad now, we’ve got a load of defenders who are probably going to be too old for the next World Cup (and aren’t that strong anyway), and we’ve got a load of young exciting attacking players. Is he the right man to build the squad around a young, exciting, attack? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,841 Posted December 10, 2022 Supporting the Canaries from the 60s I'm very used to thinking we were the better than over 90 minutes but it never quite happened or the more clinical team snatched it. Such is football outside the top 6. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barham Blitz 664 Posted December 10, 2022 14 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said: I honestly would have also put someone else on the 2nd penalty, Lloris knows Kane too well, Kane overthought it. Know what you mean. But can you imagine the furore if that other player missed ...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted December 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, king canary said: Saka was clearly limping and knackered. Strange, some people who cover football for a living have said what a poor sub that was. Obviously king canary in his basement knows better 🤷♂️ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
All the Germans 1,084 Posted December 10, 2022 21 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said: Kane bottling it in a major contest? Hmm, rather spursy that I don't blame Kane. I don't think blazing it over is bottling it. Doing a Southgate in '96 is bottling it. Pretty much the only thing sensible Michael Owen has ever said is, don't "hit the target" go for the corners. From that distance, the keeper should have no chance. Any penalty that is saved is a terrible penalty, if you smash it for a corner and miss the goal, it's bad, but not as bad as letting the 'keeper save it. (PS, I don't particularly rate Kane. He wouldn't be anywhere near the guaranteed starter for me). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,223 Posted December 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: More chance of Shamina Begum coming home but..... Wait a minute, maybe we can leave her in Qatar? England have to leave Qatar as they don't like men who are out. Yes, I stole this joke from G Norton. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted December 10, 2022 Mount was the sub I question the most. Appalling decision when chasing a game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian 1,136 Posted December 10, 2022 Don't think Southgate is tactically good enough to win a tournament. France were appalling defensively, obvious to target their RB yet we don't end up scoring a goal from open play. Maddison taken and zero minutes, Grealish brought on on the 97th minute, and all sadly predictable as per the Euro finals. France did not play well and ended up winning the match - shouldn't be happening in that way with the squad we have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted December 10, 2022 Just now, Ian said: Don't think Southgate is tactically good enough to win a tournament. France were appalling defensively, obvious to target their RB yet we don't end up scoring a goal from open play. Maddison taken and zero minutes, Grealish brought on on the 97th minute, and all sadly predictable as per the Euro finals. France did not play well and ended up winning the match - shouldn't be happening in that way with the squad we have. And Stones and Maguire are not a CB pairing that can beat great teams. The second goal is evidence of that. The sad thing is, we have a Serie A champion centre half who played regularly for AC Milan, but our idiotic manager didn't even pick him for the squad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 6,023 Posted December 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Aggy said: Maguire and Stones not quite good enough defensively at this level - their second goal is criminal defending. Can’t complain too much though with the result or performance really. Southgate future an interesting one. Seems to do well by the younger lads, but also tends to be more cautious. When you look at the balance of the squad now, we’ve got a load of defenders who are probably going to be too old for the next World Cup (and aren’t that strong anyway), and we’ve got a load of young exciting attacking players. Is he the right man to build the squad around a young, exciting, attack? The bit in bold is why, IMO, Southgate has done pretty well with this crop of players. He's basically a very pacey centre-half or two short, but if you have a defence that's vulnerable at the top levels, you can't really attack so hard. Otherwise you get matches like that 5-3 win at home to Kosovo - looked sizzling going forwards in the first half, but even an average European country like Kosovo could counter at will, so world-class opposition would rip the defence apart. What is clear is that those players love him and play for him. The England team as a camp seems much more content than in previous years, and he deserves some kudos for that. Not even the likes of Capello and Eriksson got an England team - and arguably better generations at that - playing with a similar purpose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Jedi 590 Posted December 10, 2022 Disappointed but proud. Great performance, France a bit lucky to go through 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mengo 825 Posted December 10, 2022 24 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: If you don't take your chances, you don't deserve to win. If you can't score a penalty to equalise, you deserve to lose. England were better between the boxes than France today, but the clinical finishing that characterised their performances against Iran, Wales, and Senegal left them today. France were more effective where it mattered. No doubt some will castigate Southgate when if anything, he's got more right than wrong today. No doubt some will castigate Southgate when if anything, he's got more right than wrong today. As you say you have to take your chances. France did , England did not. If you can't take your penalties then you are dead and buried. The two French goals from open play were top notch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HazzaJet 256 Posted December 10, 2022 I feel really sorry for Kane - it’s never easy taking a second penalty in a game when you’ve converted the first Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Hairy 3,782 Posted December 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, Barham Blitz said: Know what you mean. But can you imagine the furore if that other player missed ...? Hindsight is wonderful hey? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mastoola 185 Posted December 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, NFN FC said: Mount was the sub I question the most. Appalling decision when chasing a game But won the pen? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,167 Posted December 10, 2022 A very even game, it would have been interested to see how it would have gone with balanced referee decisions. I can’t remember us getting knocked out wher me the ref made the match turning calls, obv missing the he penalty is gutting but it happens to the best penalty takers sometimes. I think France and England were comfortably the 2 best teams left in it, but I rather hope Morocco win it now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted December 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: The bit in bold is why, IMO, Southgate has done pretty well with this crop of players. He's basically a very pacey centre-half or two short, but if you have a defence that's vulnerable at the top levels, you can't really attack so hard. Otherwise you get matches like that 5-3 win at home to Kosovo - looked sizzling going forwards in the first half, but even an average European country like Kosovo could counter at will, so world-class opposition would rip the defence apart. What is clear is that those players love him and play for him. The England team as a camp seems much more content than in previous years, and he deserves some kudos for that. Not even the likes of Capello and Eriksson got an England team - and arguably better generations at that - playing with a similar purpose. We could have had a pacey CB who just won a Serie A winners medal. Our manager left him at home. In favour of Harry Maguire. Harry Maguire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian 1,136 Posted December 10, 2022 1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said: The bit in bold is why, IMO, Southgate has done pretty well with this crop of players. He's basically a very pacey centre-half or two short, but if you have a defence that's vulnerable at the top levels, you can't really attack so hard. Otherwise you get matches like that 5-3 win at home to Kosovo - looked sizzling going forwards in the first half, but even an average European country like Kosovo could counter at will, so world-class opposition would rip the defence apart. What is clear is that those players love him and play for him. The England team as a camp seems much more content than in previous years, and he deserves some kudos for that. Not even the likes of Capello and Eriksson got an England team - and arguably better generations at that - playing with a similar purpose. Did they have anywhere near the level of talent over the pitch that Southgate has? I am not convinced. I am sure Morocco and Croatia have far better CBs than Gareth has available right? Genuinely couldn't care less if the England camp is happy and contented if they aren't winning games. Has to be secondary - and if any player isn't desperate to go out and represent their country we have bigger problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,766 Posted December 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, king canary said: Its funny reading the opinions of people who cover football for a living and actually know their stuff agree that England were slightly the better team but didn't take their chances. But no, CanaryDan in his basement knows better than them, Southgate is in fact useless and knows nothing. Of course. The thing is having not read any of this thread you could already predict what some would say. It's like they never actually watch the game but see the score and base analysis of the results page on BBC Sport. We had more of the ball, created more opportunities but didn't take them. Be it quality, luck or opposition pressure or whatever, they are facts. Had Southgate set us up overly defensive and we didn't look like we could create anything then there would be fair criticism. As a manager ultimately all you can aim for tactically is to create better chances than you concede. In between that there are so many factors outside of your control. We were unlucky tonight which actually makes it hurt a little more. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daly 512 Posted December 10, 2022 41 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said: Not sure why Grealish didn't come on before. Couldn’t find his hairband 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,303 Posted December 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said: Disappointed but proud. Great performance, France a bit lucky to go through yep 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 766 Posted December 10, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, canarydan23 said: And Stones and Maguire are not a CB pairing that can beat great teams. The second goal is evidence of that. The sad thing is, we have a Serie A champion centre half who played regularly for AC Milan, but our idiotic manager didn't even pick him for the squad. Yep good shout. Southgate’s gone with players he’s had before and trusted which is fair enough but moving forward, you’d like to think Tomori and Stones are the two to build the defence around. Edited December 10, 2022 by Aggy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,766 Posted December 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said: Disappointed but proud. Great performance, France a bit lucky to go through Good and accurate summary to be fair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted December 10, 2022 not really sure how anyone can blame Southgate for that, we were the better side for the majority of the game, had the better chances, missed a pen, could’ve had a lot more from the ref, things just didn’t go our way. No hard feelings from me, just a proper gutting result to take. Must admit I wanted him gone based on our national league, but this tournament has turned it round again for me- id be happy with another international tournament with him for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Branston Pickle 3,698 Posted December 10, 2022 We were the better team, didn’t take our chances, so can count ourselves as unlucky. But, for me, Southgate overall is not that good and if we want to take that step up we need better. There was too much dining out by some because we beat Senegal. Today was ok selection wise, but the subs dull and predictable, the same old same old. Not great. And now we have 2nd tier Nations League to play - yippee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,766 Posted December 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ian said: Did they have anywhere near the level of talent over the pitch that Southgate has? I am not convinced. I am sure Morocco and Croatia have far better CBs than Gareth has available right? Genuinely couldn't care less if the England camp is happy and contented if they aren't winning games. Has to be secondary - and if any player isn't desperate to go out and represent their country we have bigger problems. Well at one point previous managers have had the likes of Seaman, Cole, Campbell, Ferdinand, Terry, Neville, Lampar, Gerrard, Owen and Rooney. How many of those get in ahead of our best 11? Four of the back five, a central player and an attacking player? So 6 out of 11 being Conservative? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,297 Posted December 10, 2022 Ultimately the game was won by a moment of quality from Griezman with that laser like cross. Mbappe was fairly quiet by his standard. England played well 2nd half and at least deserved to be level at 90 mins. Not sure I would have brought Sterling on who's had a torrid week. A missed opportunity there but I think Southgate has played the tourno pretty well. We all knew QFs would be as far as we get with France the likely opposition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mengo 825 Posted December 10, 2022 33 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said: Really hoping for a Croatia v Morocco final. That would be good 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted December 10, 2022 34 minutes ago, king canary said: Oh no we didn't dominate a full 90 minutes against one of the best teams in the world? Seriously the entitlement is off the scale. I wasn't criticizing the fact we didn't dominate for a full 90 minutes. I criticized the fact that until France scored England refused to aggressively attack. And I'm sure Southgate would have had them play that way all game but fortunately France scored early and when England ware now forced to play the way they should have from the very beginning look what happened. (And later they threw it all away, but that's life it happens) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites