Farke vs Smith

[hogesar 10,762]

Can we just please stop with this fallacy that in the championship all we done was destroy teams in the championship and these sort of scrappy away wins never existed?

Our last championship title winning campaign under farke started with

- 1-0 win vs Huddersfield thanks to them playing a backpass to Pukki

- 2-2 draw against Preston at home,  with Placheta rescuing a point for us in the 85th minute.

- 0-1 loss to Bournemouth. They scored in the 35th minute. 

- 0-1 loss at home to Derby. Cries from fans that Farkeball has been sussed and Ipswich would finish above us.

- 2-1 win against Rotherham. Same scoreline as tonight, apart from we needed an own goal, red card and last minute penalty to take the points.

- 1-0 win at home to Birmingham. We needed a red card and an 87th minute Vrancic winner, for the record.

- 2-1 win against newly promoted Wycombe Wanderers.

 

Farke was an absolutely fantastic manager for us and always comparing Smith to him seems unnecessary anyway. But if you're determined to compare them, at least compare it against the reality rather than a figment of your imagination.

[All the Germans 1,239]

It is looking promising (ish) for Smith, but there is simply no comparison. Farke>>>>>>>>>> (etc) >>>>>>>>>> Smith.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 417]

Farke v Smith is getting a bit long in the tooth now.

I'm no smith fan but Farke is long gone and just a distant memory.

[Mengo 852]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Can we just please stop with this fallacy that in the championship all we done was destroy teams in the championship and these sort of scrappy away wins never existed?

Our last championship title winning campaign under farke started with

- 1-0 win vs Huddersfield thanks to them playing a backpass to Pukki

- 2-2 draw against Preston at home,  with Placheta rescuing a point for us in the 85th minute.

- 0-1 loss to Bournemouth. They scored in the 35th minute. 

- 0-1 loss at home to Derby. Cries from fans that Farkeball has been sussed and Ipswich would finish above us.

- 2-1 win against Rotherham. Same scoreline as tonight, apart from we needed an own goal, red card and last minute penalty to take the points.

- 1-0 win at home to Birmingham. We needed a red card and an 87th minute Vrancic winner, for the record.

- 2-1 win against newly promoted Wycombe Wanderers.

 

Farke was an absolutely fantastic manager for us and always comparing Smith to him seems unnecessary anyway. But if you're determined to compare them, at least compare it against the reality rather than a figment of your imagination.

Excellent  post Hoggy 👍👌. Thanks

 

[hogesar 10,762]

3 minutes ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

Farke v Smith is getting a bit long in the tooth now.

I'm no smith fan but Farke is long gone and just a distant memory.

Not being a Smith fan is fair enough.

But some fans are now finding a new way to criticise. Apparently making subs that impact the game is a negative, even though its something the same fans cried about us not doing enough under Farke. 

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

13 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Can we just please stop with this fallacy that in the championship all we done was destroy teams in the championship and these sort of scrappy away wins never existed?

Our last championship title winning campaign under farke started with

- 1-0 win vs Huddersfield thanks to them playing a backpass to Pukki

- 2-2 draw against Preston at home,  with Placheta rescuing a point for us in the 85th minute.

- 0-1 loss to Bournemouth. They scored in the 35th minute. 

- 0-1 loss at home to Derby. Cries from fans that Farkeball has been sussed and Ipswich would finish above us.

- 2-1 win against Rotherham. Same scoreline as tonight, apart from we needed an own goal, red card and last minute penalty to take the points.

- 1-0 win at home to Birmingham. We needed a red card and an 87th minute Vrancic winner, for the record.

- 2-1 win against newly promoted Wycombe Wanderers.

 

Farke was an absolutely fantastic manager for us and always comparing Smith to him seems unnecessary anyway. But if you're determined to compare them, at least compare it against the reality rather than a figment of your imagination.

I’ve been thinking of making a very similar post. Agree with this 100%, people remember the Nottingham forest aways and the Huddersfield at homes but forget the absolute slog that the majority of championship games in between were. Plenty of our wins under Farke were super unconvincing. That’s not to say Smith is better (he isn’t), just an acknowledgment of how we actually performed under the previous manager. At least a fairer form of comparison.

I can’t help but think that without Buendia and Skipp (Hayden?) we also have a notably weaker starting line up this time round, so credit to Smith if he can keep us in the top 2.

[hogesar 10,762]

1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I’ve been thinking of making a very similar post. Agree with this 100%, people remember the Nottingham forest aways and the Huddersfield at homes but forget the absolute slog that the majority of championship games in between were. Plenty of our wins under Farke were super unconvincing. That’s not to say Smith is better (he isn’t), just an acknowledgment of how we actually performed under the previous manager. At least a fairer form of comparison.

I can’t help but think that without Buendia and Skipp (Hayden?) we also have a notably weaker starting line up this time round, so credit to Smith if he can keep us in the top 2.

Your last point is relevant. We are currently winning without a recognised left back, a holding midfielder and without Pukki having scored a goal.

[astro 423]

I don’t know why some people are getting so wound up because some people don’t like Smith.

[hogesar 10,762]

Just now, astro said:

I don’t know why some people are getting so wound up because some people don’t like Smith.

I'm not sure pointing out facts has anyone wound up, although I'll happily admit to laughing at reading Smith Outers try and wriggle and writhe to find a way to protect their own ego at the risk of being wrong....only a tiny minority though, most seem pretty clued up. 🙃

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

Papering over the cracks. 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

Thank you hoggie, spot on! This love affair with Farke has to end, the way people speak about him is like we played prime Barca and won every game by 4 or 5 goals. We won so many games by the odd goal late on, just like now; relying on our passing and pressure to cause teams to run out of steam and buckle in the last 20 mins. We’re still dealing with injuries, there’s still a real fluency to find, but after 3 games people wanted Smith out, based almost solely on the basis of half a Prem season with an absolutely woeful squad. After 7 games we sit 2nd in the League and Pukki hasn’t even found the net yet, when we get a formation that clicks, when we have a proper LB playing, when Sara is up to speed and a proper DM (Hayden or Gibbs) is sat in front of the back 4 we’ll have the best team in this league by a country mile. 
 

Farkeball was wonderful when it worked and gave us some great memories but that’s what they are, memories. Smith is the here and now and he’s getting the results by hook or crook. The table is all that matters and right now it looks great!

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

English managers just aren't fashionable.

Farke had his cute little soft voice, his fancy foreign coats and it all felt nice and romantic and left field. 

Dean Smith drinks a mug of tea and sounds normal. 

I get it, the former is a bit more exciting, nice to be a bit different. 

Ultimately though I'd be able to get over f*cking James Cordon or Chemical Ali being the manager if they managed to squeeze us back up this season, and it doesn't look too unlikely that Dean Smith could do it, albeit reckon there will be a top 4 of very strong sides and we could be anywhere in that 4. 

Yeah, he's a bit of a Normal Norman, yeah I loved Farke a teeny weeny bit. But I couldn't give a frigging frick whether Dean Smith fancies a brew.

Edited August 30, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Worthy Nigelton 1,299]

It's going to take Smith time to get to Farke levels of love amongst a large section of the fanbase. I think that is natural and right to be honest. It doesn't mean people want him to fail or won't be won over by him if he does a good job and comes across well and he definitely comes across as a nice bloke.

Personally, I've said all along that he needs time to get his ideas across. He is not a success after 7 games anymore than he would have been a failure if results were different, but people need to give him some credit - winning while playing average is a good habit to be in, not a bad one.

[Virtual reality 860]

The reality with Smith is that in his time here so far you can write the highlights of his tenure down on a postage stamp. We’ve picked up 6 great points this week but you wouldn’t want to rewatch the highlights from either match. It’s been turgid performances with the quality in the squad getting the result. He needs a couple of signature displays to blow away the Cob webs of last season 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Virtual reality

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

I've barely mentioned Farke for ages. I just haven't taken to Smith yet, I doubt I will. 

A blind monkey should get this squad into the higher reaches of what appears to be one of the poorest quality 2nd tiers on record..... Yes Hogstar I haven't forgetten our bet 😀, I fully expect to lose that now whoever the manager is. 

The thought of Dean Smith bumbling through another Premier campaign concerns me. 

I just can't take to the bloke, is that a crime? Then boohoo consider me guilty. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Ken Hairy

[canarybubbles 2,199]

Ricardo posted somewhere saying any manager in this league could get this squad into the play-offs. (I'd say maybe not Russell 😆). If Smith doesn't make the play-offs, that's utter failure and he should go. Squeezing into them, failure. Finishing 3rd on 88 points? OK, perhaps another try.

[lake district canary 4,830]

The reality is that it is a battle, whoever is in charge. As I've said before, for me, a little bit of magic went from the club when Farke left. He had the kind of persona that lifted everyone......well maybe not Leitner and one or two others........and his connection to the crowd was brilliant with the after match celebrations.

Smith lacks that, but success will help him bridge that - and we all want success and despite that lack of magic, or charisma.

Edited August 31, 2022 by lake district canary

[Robert N. LiM 6,276]

Ah well, you can prove anything with facts.

[yellowrider120 917]

51 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The reality is that it is a battle, whoever is in charge. As I've said before, for me, a little bit of magic went from the club when Farke left. He had the kind of persona that lifted everyone......well maybe not Leitner and one or two others........and his connection to the crowd was brilliant with the after match celebrations.

Smith lacks that, but success will help him bridge that - and we all want success and despite that lack of magic, or charisma.

Although I was never a Farke 'worshipper' (even in the real Glory Days), he was a showman in the manner you mention and we all loved that. Mind you Lambert was similar albeit it in a more 'hurried, fist pumping' way. I didn't see what happened at the end of the match yesterday but was at Sunderland and all we got from Smith was the usual very belated couple of claps and he disappeared. He could make himself far more likeable if he approached the fans and showed some excitement and genuine warmth to us.  I get that he wants to shake the hand of the officials and opposition but you can do all that on the pitch and in the centre circle. Previous incumbents have managed it so why not the present one?. 

[Van wink 2,994]

Not sure why we are still seeing threads like this, time to move on and judge our manager on his own merits. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Van wink

[Petriix 3,218]

10 hours ago, hogesar said:

Can we just please stop with this fallacy that in the championship all we done was destroy teams in the championship and these sort of scrappy away wins never existed?

Our last championship title winning campaign under farke started with

- 1-0 win vs Huddersfield thanks to them playing a backpass to Pukki

- 2-2 draw against Preston at home,  with Placheta rescuing a point for us in the 85th minute.

- 0-1 loss to Bournemouth. They scored in the 35th minute. 

- 0-1 loss at home to Derby. Cries from fans that Farkeball has been sussed and Ipswich would finish above us.

- 2-1 win against Rotherham. Same scoreline as tonight, apart from we needed an own goal, red card and last minute penalty to take the points.

- 1-0 win at home to Birmingham. We needed a red card and an 87th minute Vrancic winner, for the record.

- 2-1 win against newly promoted Wycombe Wanderers.

 

Farke was an absolutely fantastic manager for us and always comparing Smith to him seems unnecessary anyway. But if you're determined to compare them, at least compare it against the reality rather than a figment of your imagination.

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming that "all we done [sic] was destroy teams". This is a strawman argument. We all know that we started slowly under Farke in each of our Championship winning seasons.

Really you're comparing the wrong bit of the season. After those first 4 games and until we sealed promotion with 5 games to go we averaged a staggering 2.32 points per game (P37, W26, D8, L3, GF62, GA24, GD+38, PTS86). I doubt the club will *ever* recreate that form.

The bar is pretty high, but most of us would be happy with a top 2 finish. But there are still massive deficiencies in the tactics we're employing. Let's see how it plays out over the next few weeks. 

[Newtopia 573]

Personally I preferred and liked Farke more than Smith, for me that was because Farke talked about style and types of football we would play, and we did.  Equally that did inform the opposition about how to play against us, so my preference is less important than what is going on behind the scenes.  It seems Smith has created that competitive culture, and he is happy to rotate players.  So just observing he seems to be doing fine.  Whether we are better in the Premiership next time only time will tell.

[ricardo 8,034]

1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Not sure why we are still seeing threads like this, time to move on and judge our manager on his own merits. 

This is true but much of it is about personalities. As a rule of thumb I've  often advocated not getting too close  to any manager or even player because in the end, if they are good enough, they move on or a crisis happens and they are moved out. Sadly I must confess  that I broke  my own rule  with Daniel  Farke. I doubt I will ever feel the same way about Dean Smith but perhaps thats a good thing and I can return to a more settled  feeling  of ambivalence.

I hope Smith does well but he will never be loved in the way we loved Farke.

[Commonsense 802]

28 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Although I was never a Farke 'worshipper' (even in the real Glory Days), he was a showman in the manner you mention and we all loved that. Mind you Lambert was similar albeit it in a more 'hurried, fist pumping' way. I didn't see what happened at the end of the match yesterday but was at Sunderland and all we got from Smith was the usual very belated couple of claps and he disappeared. He could make himself far more likeable if he approached the fans and showed some excitement and genuine warmth to us.  I get that he wants to shake the hand of the officials and opposition but you can do all that on the pitch and in the centre circle. Previous incumbents have managed it so why not the present one?. 

To be fair, he did that yesterday. He came over to the fans at the end and seemed genuinely pleased. We are getting there, but I still remain baffled by some of the team selections. Onel is an obvious impact player and has been excellent. We have to question who thought Placheta was better last season?

Smith though does lack the charisma of Farke, who many of us still miss. He needs a couple of spectacular performances when everything clicks to start connecting fully. 

[hogesar 10,762]

16 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming that "all we done [sic] was destroy teams". This is a strawman argument. We all know that we started slowly under Farke in each of our Championship winning seasons.

Really you're comparing the wrong bit of the season. After those first 4 games and until we sealed promotion with 5 games to go we averaged a staggering 2.32 points per game (P37, W26, D8, L3, GF62, GA24, GD+38, PTS86). I doubt the club will *ever* recreate that form.

The bar is pretty high, but most of us would be happy with a top 2 finish. But there are still massive deficiencies in the tactics we're employing. Let's see how it plays out over the next few weeks. 

You clearly didn't read Twitter or listen to Canary Call last night, because apparently fans don't know we started slowly under Farke.

[sonyc 6,144]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

This is true but much of it is about personalities. As a rule of thumb I've  often advocated not getting too close  to any manager or even player because in the end, if they are good enough, they move on or a crisis happens and they are moved out. Sadly I must confess  that I broke  my own rule  with Daniel  Farke. I doubt I will ever feel the same way about Dean Smith but perhaps thats a good thing and I can return to a more settled  feeling  of ambivalence.

I hope Smith does well but he will never be loved in the way we loved Farke.

I'm in this place too R. Agree about Daniel Farke - he tried (successfully) to understand and connect with fans (the waves, the sincerity, the humility). Not many like him about. We were blessed too with some great moments. It makes being a fan of a club become special. 

Smith could be any manager really - an identikit  English manager if you like. But he isn't a fool and has many years in the game. He looks relaxed often (and not as intense as Daniel) and that's where the personality comes in. I'm still amazed so many have not started to warm to Smith yet, because a lot of play has reminded me of many DF games. We have probably dominated every single match. Last night was frustrating on many occasions with poor decisions for example. I believe we are still in 2nd or 3rd gear. I might be wrong. Yet we were clearly a far better team.

I also see a very committed team and one clearly with spirit. You could see the release of emotion in the whole team when Onel scored.

I do agree a decent manager ought to be able to make our team tick. Because we have very good players (not cheaply bought either). Yet, for all that it just means so much more pressure, more expectation on Smith. For that he gets my empathy and support. 

Anyway, there is and was only one Daniel Farke. And we had him for 4 years. We can reminisce and feel happy (for the most part) but now is always the most important time!

Interesting to see a kind of top 6 replicated from the PL to the Championship. Can we secure a top two rather than a top six place? That will be the key. 

[TheBaldOne66 768]

8 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

To be fair, he did that yesterday. He came over to the fans at the end and seemed genuinely pleased. We are getting there, but I still remain baffled by some of the team selections. Onel is an obvious impact player and has been excellent. We have to question who thought Placheta was better last season?

Smith though does lack the charisma of Farke, who many of us still miss. He needs a couple of spectacular performances when everything clicks to start connecting fully. 

Farke sent Hernandez on loan and kept Placheta, so it is Farke who too many people think did nothing wrong during his tenure

[Robert N. LiM 6,276]

10 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I can’t help but think that without Buendia and Skipp (Hayden?) we also have a notably weaker starting line up this time round, so credit to Smith if he can keep us in the top 2.

Smith's win %age without Buendía is way better than Farke's 😉

[Robert N. LiM 6,276]

24 minutes ago, Petriix said:

After those first 4 games and until we sealed promotion with 5 games to go we averaged a staggering 2.32 points per game (P37, W26, D8, L3, GF62, GA24, GD+38, PTS86). I doubt the club will *ever* recreate that form.

It was amazing. As you say, I doubt we'll ever see another season like it. While I don't want to take anything away from Daniel, I think it is fair to recognise that empty stadiums played a part. I think I'm right in saying that season was our best-ever away from home. It's much easier for the superior team's quality to tell if there aren't thousands of home fans levelling the playing field. We benefited from that in our last Champs session just as it really went against us in project Restart. 

[Robert N. LiM 6,276]

19 minutes ago, ricardo said:

This is true but much of it is about personalities. As a rule of thumb I've  often advocated not getting too close  to any manager or even player because in the end, if they are good enough, they move on or a crisis happens and they are moved out. Sadly I must confess  that I broke  my own rule  with Daniel  Farke. I doubt I will ever feel the same way about Dean Smith but perhaps thats a good thing and I can return to a more settled  feeling  of ambivalence.

I hope Smith does well but he will never be loved in the way we loved Farke.

Good post, Ricardo. I too broke that rule but have no regrets! It's better to have loved and lost, etc.

A number of posters have mentioned Farke's charisma, coming over to the fans etc. Would just say that it's possible to read Smith's reticence as a positive quality: he doesn't want to make it all about him, is happy for the players to take the credit. He seems quite an unassuming man to me, and I have to say I like him for it, even if he lacks Daniel's weapons-grade charisma (and wardrobe).