Liverpool fans again

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,759]

3 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Prejudice is strong with this one…

Denial is even stronger here..

[Virtual reality 707]

4 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Denial is even stronger here..

I’ve no love for Liverpool but the evidence all points to last night being an absolute **** show from Uefa and the French authorities. I don’t want it wrongly being blamed on Liverpool fans as I know damn well what would happen had this happened at Wembley last night and Madrid Vs PSG in the final 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Virtual reality

[Canary73 160]

if Forest fans get there....https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61623919 

[The Real Buh 3,432]

Look, it’s a common theme

we know why a certain section of people are Liverpool fanboys all the time and it’s lame as hell

[Mello Yello 2,294]

I'm also awaiting the complaints from the Real Madrid support and including the Spanish media, concerning the over the top strong arm reactions to their travelling support by the French Police before the game...."Squirty an' Hurty"....

[cambridgeshire canary 6,720]

 

[Van wink 2,994]

This appears to be the French Government line atm......

"French government figures also blamed the scenes on the travelling British fans.

Minister of sport Amelie Oudea-Castera, who attended the game alongside French interior minister Gerald Darmanin, wrote on Twitter: “The attempts of intrusion and fraud by thousands of English fans have complicated the work of stewards and police forces but will not tarnish (Real Madrid’s) victory.

“Violence has no place in the stadiums.”

Mr Darmanin also posted on Twitter: “Thousands of British ‘supporters’, without tickets or with counterfeit tickets, forced entry and sometimes assaulted the stewards.

“Thank you to the very many police forces mobilized this evening in this difficult context.”

 

 

 

[hertfordyellow 460]

Ok let’s try again. There are obviously issues with the police response. There are obviously shortcomings in the organisation. That is clear.

For those saying there is absolutely no blame on Liverpool fans. No fake ticket problems. No aggression at all. Are we seeing the same footage of Madrid fans? If not why not?

[The Real Buh 3,432]

8 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

Ok let’s try again. There are obviously issues with the police response. There are obviously shortcomings in the organisation. That is clear.

For those saying there is absolutely no blame on Liverpool fans. No fake ticket problems. No aggression at all. Are we seeing the same footage of Madrid fans? If not why not?

Poor policing? You can convince me

poor stewarding? You can convince me

bad organisation? You can convince me

always them? Always.. them. ALWAYS them??? No

its mathematics

look back at the Athens match and they pulled exactly the same stunt, exactly the same excuses.

it’s could be all the external forces like policing and whatnot but I tell you what it definitely is? The common factor here?

Them.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,759]

57 minutes ago, Van wink said:

This appears to be the French Government line atm......

"French government figures also blamed the scenes on the travelling British fans.

Minister of sport Amelie Oudea-Castera, who attended the game alongside French interior minister Gerald Darmanin, wrote on Twitter: “The attempts of intrusion and fraud by thousands of English fans have complicated the work of stewards and police forces but will not tarnish (Real Madrid’s) victory.

“Violence has no place in the stadiums.”

Mr Darmanin also posted on Twitter: “Thousands of British ‘supporters’, without tickets or with counterfeit tickets, forced entry and sometimes assaulted the stewards.

“Thank you to the very many police forces mobilized this evening in this difficult context.”

 

 

 

This is in line with what Liverpool fans have been doing for years.

They are issued with what they perceive to be a low allocation but still take the stance that "they will go anyway, we'll always get in somehow" .

They , of all clubs should know the consequences of overcrowding outside /inside of football stadiums , yet still do it.

They were forcing their way through ,turnstiles at Istanbul, Athens, last night it would appear. There was trouble in Basle vs Seville a few years ago with fans fighting inside the ground..not to mention numerous cup finals at Wembley in the 80s

They will continue to blame everyone and everythimg else before they look at themselves.

This club got every other English club banned from Europe for 6 years (including ourselves for 3 of them).

..Their punishment? ONE extra season of european banishment.

What you would hope is that they would have at least learned their lessons from incidents in their history but they dont.

There is a sizeable portion of their fanbase which is just trouble

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Badger 2,405]

41 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

How football fans were treated? Football grounds were a horrible place to be in these decades because of the violence, unsafe actions of fans which wasn’t isolated but widespread. 

It was unsafe outside the grounds as well + to admit to being a football fan was a bit of a social faux pas in some circles of "polite society" - it "marked you out" and people made assumptions about you in the same way that some on here have made assumptions about Liverpool fans.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,273]

Some disgraceful comments and absolute ****e being written in here. Have a word with yourselves. 

[percy varco 198]

Waiting for the video of  Madrid fans with the same poor organisational issues…….

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,759]

Just dont get the alibi people want to continuously give Liverpool

This notion of 'it could have been any club in that situation' 

Could it?..its all hypothetical. What is fact is it IS Liverpool more often than not.

Besides which , I dont even think it is true of other clubs. The likes of Man Utd and Chelsea have got to their share of finals and you dont seem to hear of these types of incidents

Edited May 29, 2022 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Jambomo 215]

51 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

I’ve no love for Liverpool but the evidence all points to last night being an absolute **** show from Uefa and the French authorities. I don’t want it wrongly being blamed on Liverpool fans as I know damn well what would happen had this happened at Wembley last night and Madrid Vs PSG in the final 

It can be both things at once though, both parties can be to blame.

Whilst it might certainly be the case that the organisation was poor and it’s bad management from the French authorities, whoever thinks that scaling fences, turning up with fake tickets and charging through gates is anywhere near acceptable behaviour, and didn’t contribute to a bad situation, needs to rethink. 

I think the problem for Liverpool is that whilst not all bad fan behaviour is caused by Liverpool fans, Liverpool fans seem to find themselves caught up in bad fan behaviour more often than not. The rush from the media to always try to protect and absolve them of blame only makes things worse - I’d have more sympathy with what happened last last night if they felt some responsibility for buying fake tickets and trying  to charge into the ground. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Jambomo

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

31 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Liverpool fans seem to find themselves caught up in bad fan behaviour more often than not.

What?

This season Liverpool have played in the Premier League, and all the way to the final in the FA Cup, League Cup and Champions League.

That's a lot of games.

Show us the evidence that Liverpool fans have been caught up in bad fan behaviour more often than not this season.

 

[The Real Buh 3,432]

Manes leavings as well

<Sad trumpet noise> 🎺 

[Nora's Ghost 157]

Hard to believe that Scousers would try the fake ticket trick before trying to storm the gates.

 

So glad they got beaten.

 

 

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

It was unsafe outside the grounds as well + to admit to being a football fan was a bit of a social faux pas in some circles of "polite society" - it "marked you out" and people made assumptions about you in the same way that some on here have made assumptions about Liverpool fans.

The assumptions were based on quite a lot of evidence that the very worst of society was represented in and around football grounds. It wasn’t unwarranted in the way that out of 3 uefa finals, only one team of the six had crowd trouble. The team that has had other issues previously, who brought 80k fans even though most don’t have tickets and stretched the police who were already on edge, who took over whole squares and drank huge amounts of alcohol for 10 hours before turning up.

[shefcanary 2,409]

Some random thoughts on this.

It would be interesting to hear some Liverpool fans calling out those who assumed having a fake ticket guaranteed them entry at the expense of genuine ticket holders.  Once that happens then maybe there'll be more sympathy, but we never hear those kind of voices.

I accept that the policing was heavy handed.  Unfortunately reputations had been made, intelligence of fake tickets was plentiful, the French police decided they would do something about it.  In hindsight some form of pre-screening away from the turnstiles would have been better but why should even that be considered "normal", is that required for other clubs for instance?  

The authorities reduced the potential of storming of the turnstiles by corralling the fans into "queues" again as a tactic to stop what had been known tactics used in the past and for which there is evidence of it being attempted last night; it is disappointing to hear that this tactic was questioned by the fans - they know full well you can only go through a turnstiles legitimately one by one so some form of pre-queuing is perfectly legitimate.

Social media was full of people boasting about their fake tickets beforehand.  These fakes did not allow them to get through the automated turnstiles, which created the hold ups in the first place.  I'm sure we've all been behind someone whose season card cannot be read at such turnstiles and knows how much of a hold up that causes. 

I'm not convinced there were thousands of such tickets, but it would only take tens of these to block those turnstiles, which added to arguments with officials would exacerbate the holdups.  However to have relaxed the scrutiny of tickets would have led to what the non-ticket holding Liverpool fans expected to happen in the first place.  It all comes back to them; perhaps the club could have done more to work with the authorities in advance to avoid such issues.  Instead we have Klopp welcoming the presence of non-ticket bearing fans in the city, that was asking for trouble.

The use of pepper spray in enclosed spaces was definitely unwarranted.  

[Lord Horn (again) 131]

6 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

One game in the six nations isn’t comparable to arguably the biggest game in domestic football. Rugby World Cup tickets were allocated by ballet because of demand.

Brilliant - best typo I've seen on here in ages.  

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, Lord Horn (again) said:

Brilliant - best typo I've seen on here in ages.  

It’s not a typo. My 3 minute video of my swan lake got me two semi final tickets.

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

Some random thoughts on this.

It would be interesting to hear some Liverpool fans calling out those who assumed having a fake ticket guaranteed them entry at the expense of genuine ticket holders.  Once that happens then maybe there'll be more sympathy, but we never hear those kind of voices.

I accept that the policing was heavy handed.  Unfortunately reputations had been made, intelligence of fake tickets was plentiful, the French police decided they would do something about it.  In hindsight some form of pre-screening away from the turnstiles would have been better but why should even that be considered "normal", is that required for other clubs for instance?  

The authorities reduced the potential of storming of the turnstiles by corralling the fans into "queues" again as a tactic to stop what had been known tactics used in the past and for which there is evidence of it being attempted last night; it is disappointing to hear that this tactic was questioned by the fans - they know full well you can only go through a turnstiles legitimately one by one so some form of pre-queuing is perfectly legitimate.

Social media was full of people boasting about their fake tickets beforehand.  These fakes did not allow them to get through the automated turnstiles, which created the hold ups in the first place.  I'm sure we've all been behind someone whose season card cannot be read at such turnstiles and knows how much of a hold up that causes. 

I'm not convinced there were thousands of such tickets, but it would only take tens of these to block those turnstiles, which added to arguments with officials would exacerbate the holdups.  However to have relaxed the scrutiny of tickets would have led to what the non-ticket holding Liverpool fans expected to happen in the first place.  It all comes back to them; perhaps the club could have done more to work with the authorities in advance to avoid such issues.  Instead we have Klopp welcoming the presence of non-ticket bearing fans in the city, that was asking for trouble.

The use of pepper spray in enclosed spaces was definitely unwarranted.  

Balanced

[Sheva 123]

A large proportion of Liverpool fans have been causing serious problems around Europe for many years and at major finals at home.

I’ve had the misfortune of witnessing it first hand at 2 major finals.

They never except fault and sometimes there’s others factor’s, but come on!

Cost Norwich several years of European football and are guilty of causing many deaths by their actions. They steamed the gates late at Hillsboro, and crushed their own fans, it’s what was done by a few clubs in that era. The police and ground couldn’t cope but ended up being blamed for everything.

The truth hurts but that’s sadly my experience .

Luckily no was killed this time.

 

 

 

[Bert 236]

It’s always Liverpool fans always period 

[Canary73 160]

Just watched the second leg of the promotion/relegation play off between St Etienne and Auxerre. Auxerre won on pens and the aftermath was a stampede with flares and all sorts thrown. The match was stopped earlier due to pitch invasions and bottles thrown. It has been a huge problem in France this season too. Players were ushered into the tunnel but some were caught by St Etienne. Given what has happened it was odd that there wasn't more protection for the players and staff of both teams.

[Canary73 160]

 

 

[hertfordyellow 460]

5 minutes ago, Canary73 said:

Just watched the second leg of the promotion/relegation play off between St Etienne and Auxerre. Auxerre won on pens and the aftermath was a stampede with flares and all sorts thrown. The match was stopped earlier due to pitch invasions and bottles thrown. It has been a huge problem in France this season too. Players were ushered into the tunnel but some were caught by St Etienne. Given what has happened it was odd that there wasn't more protection for the players and staff of both teams.

French football is in a bad place. Macron had a pretty authoritative approach to lockdown and vaccines and it’s created a big anti establishment movement that has manifested itself in domestic football hooliganism 

[DraytonBoy 151]

I was watching the St Etienne game as well, they had to close their stadium earlier in the season after constant crowd problems. God help clubs in Ligue 2 next season, some of the grounds are pretty small.

[Taylor324 36]

The worrying thing is the media have already come to the Liverpool supporters defence before the inquiry has even started. No doubt the subsequent investigation will be swayed just as the Hillsborourgh inquest was and Liverpool fans will be completely exonerated 

This in turn gives them a free pass and a green light to do exactly the same again next year