Is this being unfair or is he being found out

[Greavsy 2,418]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Wes did to a certain extent but that isn't really my point. Also anyone caring that much about 'cryptic messages on the socials' absolutely needs to get a life.

My point is that some players can be forgiven for their transgressions- Wes and Holt being perfect examples- but for some reason people seem to delight in Todd's current struggles. 

I think if TC had taken the 2nd (3rd) chance he was given with his starts for DS and put in a good shift, and returned to the levels he previously achieved for us, then I think he would have been forgiven in the same light as the others you mention. 

Agree re socials KC. 

[king canary 7,652]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

We've said this before about our own youngsters. I think it's any youngsters though. Do you not remember the amount of stick Redmond got here too? He's been a Prem regular ever since whilst we've floundered between the two divisions.

Yeah Redmond is another good example. 

I do think the more attacking players get it worse though- I don't know if it is a Norwich thing specifically but I think fans tend to get more attached to hard working yet limited players rather than the more 'mercurial' talents who sometimes have ups and downs in their form. The differing opinions on Redmond vs Elliott Bennett for instance is one that always stands out in my mind.

[hogesar 9,716]

Just now, king canary said:

Yeah Redmond is another good example. 

I do think the more attacking players get it worse though- I don't know if it is a Norwich thing specifically but I think fans tend to get more attached to hard working yet limited players rather than the more 'mercurial' talents who sometimes have ups and downs in their form. The differing opinions on Redmond vs Elliott Bennett for instance is one that always stands out in my mind.

You're 100% with this. I also think particularly wide attacking young players are instantly compared to Huckerby for some reason. And there's a bit of rose-tinted glasses where people think every time Huckerby got the ball he scored or assisted.

I could be wrong on the Huckerby comparison but I particularly remember Redmond and Josh Murphy being compared for some reason.

[king canary 7,652]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You're 100% with this. I also think particularly wide attacking young players are instantly compared to Huckerby for some reason. And there's a bit of rose-tinted glasses where people think every time Huckerby got the ball he scored or assisted.

I could be wrong on the Huckerby comparison but I particularly remember Redmond and Josh Murphy being compared for some reason.

In my experience some fans also hadn't got used to the new 'breed' of winger that exists now. I think when people thought of wingers for a long time it was chalk on the boots, run at your fullback, get to the byline and cross type players. Redmond and Josh Murphy didn't play like that and most modern wingers don't either but you got grumbles and frustration when either of this players didn't just 'RUN AT HIM FOR ****S SAKE! JUST TAKE HIM ON!' This is also why I think some are convinced Placheta can still come good as he's much more of a classic winger when in my view he lacks any of the nuance, skill or brain to play the position at a high level.

I think you can see some similar elements in how people talk about Aarons too- the preference for the more solid but infinitely less talented Byram in some minds. Aarons is the epitome of what top teams want a modern fullback to be (although he obviously still has areas to develop) but some don't appreciate that as they still view fullbacks as defenders first and foremost.

Edited March 17, 2022 by king canary

[BarclayWazza 91]

I'll always give Hoolahan a pass on his comments because that seemed to have been more influenced by Hughton than any dislike for the actual club.  He'd built up enough goodwill prior and since to justify his legend status.

Same with Holt, the guy spent most of his years as a journeyman lower league striker and this would likely have been his last chance at a big contract. Again, definitely earned enough goodwill for one minor transgression to be overlooked.

I'm neither here nor there with Cantwell. Should have been an excellent player for us, has other issues that for whatever reason means he's not been. Hasn't earned the legend status of a Holt or Hoolahan so while I don't wish him ill will, if we get an 8 figure sum for him then fair enough but I don't really give a hoot about what he gets up to for the rest of his career. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,769]

12 minutes ago, BarclayWazza said:

I'll always give Hoolahan a pass on his comments because that seemed to have been more influenced by Hughton than any dislike for the actual club.  He'd built up enough goodwill prior and since to justify his legend status.

Same with Holt, the guy spent most of his years as a journeyman lower league striker and this would likely have been his last chance at a big contract. Again, definitely earned enough goodwill for one minor transgression to be overlooked.

I'm neither here nor there with Cantwell. Should have been an excellent player for us, has other issues that for whatever reason means he's not been. Hasn't earned the legend status of a Holt or Hoolahan so while I don't wish him ill will, if we get an 8 figure sum for him then fair enough but I don't really give a hoot about what he gets up to for the rest of his career. 

And you know he did end up getting his dream move to west brom and made a grand total of 6 apperences in 2 years for them.. Grass greener and all that. Fair credit for his current Cambridge form mind doing geat

[AJ 1,224]

Cantwell is a player who SHOULD have become a PL regular, but he probably won't and will be stuck in Championship mediocrity for much of his career. The departure of Emi should have been a great chance for him to stamp his authority on the squad as our best attacking outlet, but that never materialised. The truth is Emi probably bought the best out of him, not least for distracting a lot of defensive attention away from Todd. Howson feels like a similar player in terms of throwing his toys to get a move, look how that worked out for him. Even at his age now, was the best player on the pitch against Spurs, what could have been...

[Greavsy 2,418]

56 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

And you know he did end up getting his dream move to west brom and made a grand total of 6 apperences in 2 years for them.. Grass greener and all that. Fair credit for his current Cambridge form mind doing geat

So he signed for WBA in September 2018 after we had released him at the end of the 17/18 season, so not sure thats a move as such. He was there for one season, but you correctly state he made 6 appearances for them.

His 'dream move' as you call it was to go to Villa in Jan 2014 after they had an alleged £1M bid rejected. 

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

3 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Man management was fine. Got a tune out of Cantwell and Buendia last year when both wanted out. Young players seemed to play their heart out for him. Defensively was his weak point for sure but I'd rather that than a coach who punts it long (which we appear to have at the moment).

Agree, I would say man-management was Farke's strength - if you struggled to stay onside with him, I think the issue was more at their end rather than his.

[Mason 47 1,391]

5 hours ago, king canary said:

Yeah Redmond is another good example. 

I do think the more attacking players get it worse though- I don't know if it is a Norwich thing specifically but I think fans tend to get more attached to hard working yet limited players rather than the more 'mercurial' talents who sometimes have ups and downs in their form. The differing opinions on Redmond vs Elliott Bennett for instance is one that always stands out in my mind.

 Everyone can work hard and graft, that's a game we can all play and relate to. But natural talent? Most will never be at the level of a professional footballer, its a dream at best. And nobody likes seeing someone else with their dream and 'wasting it'

Personally I'd full-on forgotten about Todd, his time is over.

[wcorkcanary 4,336]

7 hours ago, king canary said:

I find the barely contained glee that some hold over his recent struggles to be a bit **** to be honest.

He's a local lad who played very well for us over a period. His time is probably up here though and it is in the clubs best interests that he plays well and secures a permanent move for a good fee elsewhere. But there are some on here who seem like they'd rather his career flamed out and I don't really understand why. 

We've had plenty of players not reach their potential, plenty of players not give their all on the pitch, plenty of players fall out with the club and want to leave who don't get half the vitriol that Cantwell seems to attract. I saw the same with the Murphy brothers too. What is it about our own youth prospects that makes our fanbase so bitter?

Some of our fanbase. They are  often quite bitter about other things too.  Like its an achievement to pick holes in something. Big, big men. Not.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So many of our youth products have been harried since I can remember back to the late fifties. Probably a lot worse now with social media etc. They are easy targets and they know it. The bully boys obviously pass on the gene to their children.

[Coneys Knee 983]

9 hours ago, The Bristol Nest said:

Under DF we played a brand of football that doesn't work in the top tier but looked glorious in the second. I am not enthused by our current regime and am feeling negative about next season's potential style of play. 

Regarding TC, he appears happy at Bournemouth although he is no Maddison...

I disagree. DF’s brand of football or philosophy was/is perfect for the Premier League or any league for that matter. The problem is that you need premium quality players to be able to execute it, and that where we came unstuck, again, as we always do when we need to make the step up in actual quality of playing personnel. 
 

The reason it looked so glorious in the Championship is because for the most part we had superior players to the other teams. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

I have never been in any way critical of TCs personality and my criticism solely rests in his standard of football. I rate this to be much lower than many others and I accept there is difference of opinion on it. Fans that may seem to ‘enjoy’ his decline I suspect mostly enjoy their original perception of his talent as being accurate. It’s also not endemic to NCFC to be critical of players that outwardly proclaim to be as good as their hype. Fans like humble and unassuming, or at the very least just players getting in and showing commitment and graft. Hanley and Pukki spring to mind. Neither would entertain the idea of publicly shouting something like ‘Doubters said I couldn’t live up to the number ## - well who is doubting now?’. Not quoting Cantwell directly here but paraphrasing 😂. Quiet confidence is fine, quietly backing yourself is fine, celebrating with passion is fine. Trouble with TC was that he backed himself too openly and before he had been consistently performing, he had a little dance when he scored that many perceive (rightly or wrongly) it was about him and not about the contribution he made to the team. This leads people to believe there is an ego there and this was not helped with the rejected contract talks. Once again it can be perceived as an act that suggests he feels bigger than this team and this club. DF was a manager where the squad had ‘togetherness’ written all over them and the common fan loves to see this at their club. When this looks like it’s being jeopardised by an individual whose form has been inconsistent and often downright bad, it’s reasonable for the working class fan to ask questions. For most it’s not intended as a personal attack but more a lashing out because they feel a bit let down by one of their own, who is in a profession where the pay is handsome, even at our club and has already made enough to live a comfortable life. His wages are not his fault, but how many of us tell our children they should show more gratitude for what they have and more respect for what helped them progress to hopefully better things.
Good luck to TC. I don’t want him to fail, but I will not apologise for being able to feel ‘I told you so’. it’s not to say he can’t be better and go on to bigger things, but for the record I don’t think he will. Will happily eat humble pie if he does and say I was wrong. 
 

sweary 

[HazzaJet 256]

He's out of contract next summer and I can't see him having any desire to play for us again, so sell him this summer while we can still get some money for him

[Big Vince 318]

16 hours ago, WD40 said:

Out of the game in 2 years

To think that Villa were being quoted £40 million for the boy before the season started.

[mastoola 185]

as i said before   if i was cantwells father id have a word with him

[Deptford Yellow 260]

On 16/03/2022 at 22:59, Yellow Green Army said:

Get him back here. Clean slate.  Tell him to buck his ideas up, roll up his sleeves and get back to the high standards that we know he is capable of. Oh and play him in his correct position.

What is his correct position  ? I’m not sure I know anymore … If it’s left side midfield I sure wouldn’t want to move Rashica out of the way …

[The Bristol Nest 517]

11 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

I disagree. DF’s brand of football or philosophy was/is perfect for the Premier League or any league for that matter. The problem is that you need premium quality players to be able to execute it, and that where we came unstuck, again, as we always do when we need to make the step up in actual quality of playing personnel. 
 

The reason it looked so glorious in the Championship is because for the most part we had superior players to the other teams. 

I actually agree. DF's football philosophy doesn't work in the PL because you need players of a much higher calibre than we have available and yet he continued to use the same ideas, despite the ensuing results.

[hertfordyellow 460]

14 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

I disagree. DF’s brand of football or philosophy was/is perfect for the Premier League or any league for that matter. The problem is that you need premium quality players to be able to execute it, and that where we came unstuck, again, as we always do when we need to make the step up in actual quality of playing personnel. 
 

The reason it looked so glorious in the Championship is because for the most part we had superior players to the other teams. 

So it is perfect for elite Premiership sides. That doesn't particularly help a club that doesn't operated in that world. Pragmatism is a fundamental quality of any coach of a yo yo club. Adapting to the environment you are in. At this time I think Smith has that but we'll wait and see.

[Mengo 825]

1 minute ago, hertfordyellow said:

So it is perfect for elite Premiership sides. That doesn't particularly help a club that doesn't operated in that world. Pragmatism is a fundamental quality of any coach of a yo yo club. Adapting to the environment you are in. At this time I think Smith has that but we'll wait and see.

Agree with you. It gets very tiring when people keep referring to the Championship.  This league is a completely different animal. We are struggling to keep our heads above the water. It's sink or swim time.

[Coneys Knee 983]

10 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

So it is perfect for elite Premiership sides. That doesn't particularly help a club that doesn't operated in that world. Pragmatism is a fundamental quality of any coach of a yo yo club. Adapting to the environment you are in. At this time I think Smith has that but we'll wait and see.

My point exactly. Not at all convinced by smith though

[hertfordyellow 460]

2 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said:

My point exactly. Not at all convinced by smith though

Well considering we've only seen him put out fires in the Premiership, my position on Smith is based more on faith than anything.

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Its interesting re: The venom given to former youth players and an almost schadenfreude attitude. I feel it comes down to destinations and application.
Like in recent years - Madders went to Leicester, we all thanked him for his work and saw this as a good move.
The crappier of the two Murphys and Lewis went to Newcastle - crap move crap club - even more so if you dont get a squad number
 

So i think its all about what they have done combined with where they go.

Like no one could begrudge Emi the move... but Villa.... Jesus Christ why would anyone go there?!?

Cantwell's issue is that he went from being a tallented youngster to Lionel Messi (in his eyes)
We watched as he simply got too big for his boots, arguably his two best mates leave the club and he then feels he is good enough to make the jump.
I think that the issue is someone, older player or coach should have put an arm around him and taken him out for a beer / listened to his issues. If the Wee Billy Crankey stealing his Mrs rumours are true then again, this should have been dealt with. If this was the case id be furious if someone i saw on my level came in thereatened my position in the club and stole my gf. But again, needed a steady head to sit down with him and talk it through.
I think we begudge him because he could have been a real asset for us in this desperate year and he chose to throw his toys out of the pram so in turn we flip a digit at him.
The whole situation should and could have been dealt with better and the loser is us and ultimately Todd as he seems to have lost his spark.
Watch him turn up in the lower leagues and set them on fire being one of those "where are they now" / "hes too good for League 2" players by the time hes 27 / 28.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Big game for Bournemouth today to move them away from 3rd. Someone starting this from the bench…..

[Chichcan 148]

Not great is it

That's 3 different managers in one season who've started him for a bit then benched him

 

[daly 507]

Would rather have him here than the present crew

Things going from bad to worse we’ve now got the dressing room joker coming back

Pity his ability lies on the stage rather than the football pitch 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,797]

On 17/03/2022 at 19:21, keelansgrandad said:

So many of our youth products have been harried since I can remember back to the late fifties. Probably a lot worse now with social media etc. They are easy targets and they know it. The bully boys obviously pass on the gene to their children.

I can think of a fair few though that are revered and always will be..

If youre a homegrown player and work hard and not be seen to p!ss you career up the wall , you'll be welcomed here..

Fashanu,Gordon,Fox,Sutton,Eadie,Bellamy.... Aarons will always be remembered for his loyalty and professionalism in his time here, whatever he goes on to do.

Cantwell hasnt got a fraction of that lot's workrate,desire or even ability

[canarybubbles 1,934]

Bournemouth winning 3-0 without him. Oh dear, we're not going to get our 11 million.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,769]

1 hour ago, Chichcan said:

Not great is it

That's 3 different managers in one season who've started him for a bit then benched him

 

Just wait until he stops turning up to training..