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BarclayWazza

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  1. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    You're trying to find stuff that isn't there fella. A previous post jokingly questioned my ambition if I didn't want us to be a footballing giant. As a passing comment I happened to mention that I'm just old enough to remember the time that we could have possibly be considered that. Nothing more/less than that in the intention. I happen to think that we shouldn't be making comparisons with our perceived place in a footballing hierarchy but instead be making comparisons with our potential. I think we have the potential to establish ourselves in the PL if only for a few years and it's my opinion that the lack of spending for whatever reason this summer will be a massive inexcusable factor should we go down. Should you feel that you sit in the group of people who might think "well that's ok that we went down, what about all the teams that want to be in our place", then you will fall in the group of people who in my opinion have a "little ole Norwich" mentality. If you disagree or feel triggered by that, I'm sorry but I dont really care.
  2. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    I did much the same yesterday but I looked at the players bought by those teams and do you know what? Most of them were in the 21-25 year age range and most were in the £5m - £15m bracket. Imagine if we go down this year having spent next to no money and sell Godfrey/Aarons in the summer.... we'd be the richest Championship club in history!
  3. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    You might have missed the part where I said on another post that I hold little value in whatabouttery. I have no interest in how teams that were in those divisions at that time fare now - in fact, rather than a stick to beat the club with (which is what I've assumed you thought I meant by that) I only brought those years up as a reference to a time where we could be possibly considered a top side, and even then from what I remember given my young age, we were considered to be relegation fodder. What I was saying was that the view that we should respect our place in some kind of football hierarchy and that we should consider ourselves grateful to even be in the PL is symptomatic of the "little ole Norwich" mentality many display. Why shouldn't we strive for further improvement? Why shouldn't we highlight failings in past approaches and identify ways to learn from that in the future, and if we dont learn from our mistakes, question why? As for Bill.... I really dont know where to start with that but my aim from my post before was to completely destroy your ridiculous argument with fact and logic. I think most will agree that I highlighted extremely clearly that there is a viable low risk third way which is in between the aforementioned two extremes that appear to be the only outcomes you can envisage. If you deem that nonsense then that's on you old chum. Just know that all you've done in that post is to REALLY prove Wicky correct
  4. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    Really not sure what your point is here? You sure as heck didn't answer my question. In fact, in attempting to dodge it, I think you've unintentionally come full circle because I think you're proving my point. Onel and Buendia are both young players that we got in for small sums of money (albeit with add-ons for promotion) which have proved to be a success. Webber obviously saw these players (and previous scouting teams saw Max/Jamal etc) with the view of them being a low risk signing but with potential for development. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM ADVOCATING WE SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE CLOSE SEASON. The difference is, if you want to do that at this level, you cant get by shopping for players in the £1m bracket in the European lower divisions, but you are still looking at buying players who are on the up in their careers. Perhaps you're giving them a 3 year contract at £30,000 a week, that works out at £1.5m a year. A relative drop in the ocean when your TV income alone is £100m. And if you get relegated, you still own a young player on the up in their career so either you sell them or the £1.5m doesn't make a massive dent in the parachute payments and you have a player who can help gain promotion. But the key thing is if that doesn't work out, he's out of contract when the parachute payments end. Look at the players that got us into the mess we got in over the last couple of years. Naismith (aging, no real sell on value, huge wages, contract 1 year longer than parachute payments) and Jarvis (aging, notoriously injury prone, decent wages, contract 1 year longer than parachute payments) caused the main issues but look at some of the other players we signed ready for the first team around that time? Robbie Brady (bought for £7m at the age of 23, sold for £13m), Nathan Redmond (bought for £2.5m at the age of 19, sold for £10m after helping us regain promotion), Alex Pritchard (bought for £8m at the age of 23, sold for similar). These are exactly the types of player that I'm talking about. It's brilliant that we've scouted players from a young age like Godfrey, Jamal and Max and hopefully there are more to come of that production line but they aren't ready now and not spending anything means that we're relying on the players who we bought in as Championship players to make a further step up. So far, it looks like most of our midfield aren't doing that. My issue with our lack of ambition is that we've had 3 promotions now in the last 10 years and not capitalised on it because we've tried to do it on the cheap each time. "Whatabouttery" is never a valid argument. I don't care what any of those teams have done or are doing or how similar in size or investment they are to us. I care about our potential and with some sensible investment in scouted players that are on the rise in their careers, we give ourselves more of a chance at capitalising on this promotion than we do by spending a couple of million. If you're looking where we are in football's "pecking order", seeing that as below "bigger" teams or those with more investment than us (which fwiw would put us close to the bottom of the 92) then sorry, but you are looking as us as "little ole Norwich". By refusing to take opportunities to improve that for fear of something that happened because of bad decisions made 4 years ago only compounds that. Dearie, dearie me. By not managing to answer my question and the confused waffle that followed, Winky might have a point. I would keep batting these back but what is it Mark Twain said about arguing with a fool?
  5. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    Funnily enough, a pub discussion topic from the other night. I'm just old enough to remember the UEFA Cup run and the days of finishing 3rd/4th/5th in the top division which is probably the closest we can say we've been to that. But you're right, there's something extra special being a Norwich fan and turning over a Man City or the one trip to Wembley I've had in my time following Norwich. I'd suggest that a Man Utd fan in the mid 90's to mid 00's didn't get the same pleasure out of yet another PL title. Personally, both in terms of football and elsewhere in life, I like the feeling of overachievement and progression. In the short term, we've certainly progressed but if you go back further, we're still not learning from previous relegations.
  6. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    I think the point has been addressed and it is you that is still falling for the one extreme or another approach. A reasoned approach to finding ourselves where we are now is neither unsustainable spending nor is it spending just a couple of million. I don't know of anyone that wants to see us doling out huge fees and contracts but the alternative doesn't need to be what it is. Could you now please address the point that actually spending perhaps £20m on some young players with resale value doesn't necessarily represent us spending large sums of money on hefty contracts that will doom us if we go down and might actually represent an low risk approach that gives us a better chance of staying up?
  7. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    It's not about turning us into a footballing giant though, it's about our ambition as a club. Personally, I think anyone that is just happy fluctuating between PL and Championship without seeing the potential that the club has embodies that "little old Norwich" mentality. That we should be happy just to be here and should know our place and we should be untrusting of any outside investment.
  8. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    Well its kinda relevant - for example you don't sign a 29 year old player with little resale value/potential on a 3 and a half year deal when you know you will only have 2 years of parachute payments if you go down We didn't have any of that type of player on long term deals when we went down under Hughton.
  9. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    Someone talking sense by identifying there is a middle ground between spending millions on Naismith types and spending nothing which many on here dont seem to be able to do. What KC says in the bit I've quoted makes absolute sense. Versus some people who dont talk sense by trying to deflect the idea that relegation will be a massive factor in whether Godfrey and Aarons stay. Yes they are destined for greater things than us in the long term but in the short term why not do our best to keep them as part of the next couple of years. These guys have the potential to be £40-50m players - we're never going to be spending that amount on players so why not do your best to keep them while you can. Investment in young improving players isn't going to leave the club in a Naismith situation and will in fact actually improve the squad and their resale value, indeed it's what we did last season. I'm staggered to see that some people still blindly argue against it for this season.
  10. BarclayWazza

    We don't need to spend...

    At last, someone talking sense. Nowadays you have to spend upwards of 5 million for a decent attacking player in the Championship. We went different and got in young and/or cheap forward players on modest wages and performed a miracle in getting promoted. Now absolutely no-one is suggesting we go out and spend £20m on a 28 year old and put him on a 4 year contract, but what I expected in the close season is for us to do the same to improve the team. So far the only player that you'd expect to be an improvement on the first 11 is Amadou. And I'm quite happy to continue bleating on about this because its mind boggling that some seem to think it's ok that we've spent peanuts but we have potentially 5-6 proper class players in our side and relegation is likely to see maybe 2 or 3 of those move on. We are financially stable, putting the behind the scenes stuff in place and building the foundations for this club to push on. So why not spend some proper money on some decent younger players (with a resale value if it does go wrong) to give us the best chance of having a PL status to match that and keeping the likes of Aarons and Godfrey.
  11. BarclayWazza

    Stinking rich Chinese investor

    Sorry I don't think you got the point I was trying to make - I think with 3 players who are all young and developing, I think you need an experienced body alongside them. Klose would imo fit the bill but has had too many injuries, I don't think Zimbo is experienced enough and I don't think Hanley is ultimately good enough. And I'm not saying it should be a mega bucks player on 100k a week, just someone with a bit of top flight experience who can guide the others on the pitch.
  12. BarclayWazza

    Stinking rich Chinese investor

    Would you call no meaningful additions to a back line that shipped over 1 goal a game last year continual improvement? If you're going to have 3 of your back line as promising but inexperienced at the top level youth products you need something better than someone who is injury prone (Klose), inexperienced at the top level (Zimbo) or not quite good enough at this level (Hanley) to be that 4th player. In fact I wouldn't call spending 750k on a back up player, a few quid on a couple of loans and a few more quid on players for the development team continuous improvement. In a season where we can expect c.£100m in TV money, I would expect an outlay of £20-30m on well scouted players to be a controlled amount.
  13. BarclayWazza

    Stinking rich Chinese investor

    I do agree that outside of the top maybe 6-8 teams now that it is a bit of a myth. But you will find many teams that have had a good run of 5+ seasons in the top flight that are very similar size, average attendance and stature to us - Leicester, Brighton, Southampton, Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Watford, West Brom, Swansea and Stoke have all done this in recent years. The main difference between them and us is the owners bank balance.
  14. BarclayWazza

    Stinking rich Chinese investor

    Again, it depends on your ambition. IMO we should be aiming to be a relatively settled PL side. We've failed to do that 3 times in the last 15 or so years. I've said this hundreds of times now as well but I strongly believe we have at least 5 potential £30m + players in the squad and building a side around those 5 is our best chance to establish ourselves. I just think its madness that we've spent next to nothing going into a season that could see some of them gone if we go back down. Yes I know we had to shell out extra for Buendia. Yes i know we had to pay out promotion bonuses. Yes i know we don't get all the PL money at once. But had we had an owner that could put in a short term £20-30 million rather than waiting until January we would surely give ourselves a better chance.
  15. BarclayWazza

    Stinking rich Chinese investor

    Football and finances have of course changed, we haven't. 15 of the 20 clubs in the PL are owned by billionaires. 3 of the rest are hundred millionaires. Unsurprisingly Delia and MWJ are the poor relations (estimated £25m). In fact if you add the Championship to that list they rank bottom of the top 44 teams. As you said, footballs changed, we're still trying to get by with poor owners.
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