Cantwell

[Half Ar5ed Hipster 82]

Just read the EDP's interesting Webber titbit on Todd.

I wonder if the challenge is arising from guaranteed first team football next season and how much Cantwell believes he should earn?

Thoughts all??

 

 

 

 

[Nuff Said 5,973]

It doesn’t take a lot of reading between the lines to work out that either Todd or his agent are asking for more than we’re prepared to give. Hugely short-sighted, a season in the U23s isn’t going to do much for his earning potential.

[lharman7 39]

A season loan to a championship club willing to give Cantwell a starting spot and full season would do him wonders.

Get him signed then loan him out.

[splendidrush 720]

There's interest down the road apparently, despite the fact that he's miles too good for League One.

Yet he's being described as inbred scum and any other kind of compliment you wish to think of. 

Agree with lharman, get the contract signed and find him regular games in the Championship for a season. 

[M the Canary 10]

Sounds like Webber is prepared to play hard ball with him.

sounds like he values himself more than the club values him 

[wcorkcanary 4,786]

23 minutes ago, M the Canary said:

Sounds like Webber is prepared to play hard ball with him.

sounds like he values himself more than the club values him 

Sounds like typical contract negotiations for a player who is not an automatic starter, but has potential to be decent. I don't imagine the Club will be pushed beyond its self imposed structure. He's decent but no world beater just yet.

[BobLoz3 610]

1 hour ago, splendidrush said:

There's interest down the road apparently, despite the fact that he's miles too good for League One.

Yet he's being described as inbred scum and any other kind of compliment you wish to think of. 

Agree with lharman, get the contract signed and find him regular games in the Championship for a season. 

Can you imagine Todd, a Norwich fan through and through, going to play for those lot??! Ha!

They wouldn't want him there and I doubt he'd want to go. Pretty hilarious that he's even linked!

[HertsCanary93 223]

Is Todd still on his first professional deal? I don't believe he will have got a pay rise with the extension clause.

I wonder if his agent is using Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis' contracts as a benchmark for salary expectations? Unfortunately for the agent, those three are each one of the first names on the team-sheet - whereas Todd has another step to take first imo. Webber presumably thinks the same.

I am firmly in the he needs a full season in the championship camp - he has loads of potential, but will not get the football he needs next season.

[lake district canary 4,836]

Sounds like Todd needs to get a different agent. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

Without knowing what Norwich are offering or what Cantwell is asking for it is a bit ridiculous to speculate about who is in the right here, it is certainly disrespectful to say that this is Todd or his agent’s fault. 

You only have to look at how long Farke and Klose’s contract took to sort out to see that Webber is a hard negotiator. 

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Since he signed that existing contract, he has come on leaps and bounds and is likely on fairly poor money at the moment.

He also finds himself in a very fragile situation next season in that we are now a prem club and after breaking into the squad, he will have to do it all over again and probably go out on loan.

I suspect any decent contract we tie him to will be to protect us from losing him for nothing when he could easily be a £10m championship standard player we cant find room for in our squad.

Ball is in our court when week by week, he is on a few pence until he compromises and takes what is on the table. Hopefully means he realises its make or break time and really knuckles down over preseason to prove what he is all about.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,462]

Bethnal makes a good point and there is more to add.

Homegrown players (of almost any club) have tended to be underpaid in relation to their purchased contemporaries. 

There is also a tendency for such players to have to jump the ‘I knew you back when..’ hurdle, meaning that your actual current skills and level lag behind the perception in those around you. Webber may well be above this, but it could easily be that the existing contract lags quite a way behind others and that an agent is asking for reasonable parity, whilst the club might not wish to encourage multi-fold rises (despite the fact the starting point might be lower as a consequence of slow homegrown wage rises).

Furthermore, it would be reasonable for such a player not to wish to see himself as lesser than his peers - and his agent would certainly not wish to go against his client on that point - whilst the club might reasonable stick to a line that he hadn’t quite done what they had done on the pitch in terms of regular 1st xi starting position.

The potential - as seen and noted by Webber - to be an impasse. 

Ironically moving might be the best option. Bankers could rise to Assistant bank Managers in their local branch, but had to move to be promoted to Manager based on this very principle. 

Parma

 

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

Surely someone on here kniws the details of his contract, there seemed to be a lot of people in the know about Maddison's contract? 

[lake district canary 4,836]

38 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Without knowing what Norwich are offering or what Cantwell is asking for it is a bit ridiculous to speculate about who is in the right here, it is certainly disrespectful to say that this is Todd or his agent’s fault. 

You only have to look at how long Farke and Klose’s contract took to sort out to see that Webber is a hard negotiator. 

The fact that the extra year option had to be triggered on his present contract seems to indicate that an agreement should have been achieved by now.  I only blame the agent because I don't think agents always operate from a good perspective for clubs or players - they are (imo) more geared up to getting the most money possible, which if true in Todd's case does not take into account the bigger picture of his position.

So imo, the agent should be advising to sign up to what has been offered as it must be clear that the club will not change its policy for one player.  If he is not doing that, then fair enough, it's the player holding out for more, but in that case the agent will be saying - you need to accept what is on offer or be prepared to move clubs.  At the end of the day Todd has to decide - does he want to stay or go elsewhere.

The only caveat to add to that is that as a young player, Todd needs to make sure he is not being led down a path by his agent that may net him more money elsewhere but may not help his career development......

 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The fact that the extra year option had to be triggered on his present contract seems to indicate that an agreement should have been achieved by now.  I only blame the agent because I don't think agents always operate from a good perspective for clubs or players - they are (imo) more geared up to getting the most money possible, which if true in Todd's case does not take into account the bigger picture of his position.

So imo, the agent should be advising to sign up to what has been offered as it must be clear that the club will not change its policy for one player.  If he is not doing that, then fair enough, it's the player holding out for more, but in that case the agent will be saying - you need to accept what is on offer or be prepared to move clubs.  At the end of the day Todd has to decide - does he want to stay or go elsewhere.

The only caveat to add to that is that as a young player, Todd needs to make sure he is not being led down a path by his agent that may net him more money elsewhere but may not help his career development......

 

You basically assume Norwich are behaving beyond reproach and that the nasty horrible agent is being greedy. You have no knowledge of info on what is being offered or said. 

Maybe the club are offering a well below market rate to Todd, know that as a fan he may be prepared to accept that. Maybe the club are saying he won’t play much but they won’t let him go on loan, so that would be a massive hindrance to his development. 

Webber has made the comments about Cantwell’s contract public to place him under pressure to sign a deal he may not be entirely happy with.  That’s probably not in Cantwell’s best interest either. 

[BigFish 2,283]

Realistically, is Todd going to play much this season? Webber may be thinking of using him as contingency for 2020/21 in case we get relegated and some of the squad move on. So offering Champs level wages. Even if he runs off the end of the option we get compensation so Webber doesn't have much to lose. It might be better for him if he moves on.

[lake district canary 4,836]

16 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

You basically assume Norwich are behaving beyond reproach and that the nasty horrible agent is being greedy. You have no knowledge of info on what is being offered or said. 

Maybe the club are offering a well below market rate to Todd, know that as a fan he may be prepared to accept that. Maybe the club are saying he won’t play much but they won’t let him go on loan, so that would be a massive hindrance to his development. 

Webber has made the comments about Cantwell’s contract public to place him under pressure to sign a deal he may not be entirely happy with.  That’s probably not in Cantwell’s best interest either. 

That is a cynical view as to what the club might be offering the player.  I would back the club, especially as it has made crystal clear what the situation is ever since Webber arrived - and for that matter I would back the player to have a better understanding of the situation at the club, than an agent.

Both Farke and Webber make things public because they are demonstrating the way things are at the club - it is a we are all in it together policy and there is no doubt about it.  The talks have been going on too long - the club has obviously made it's position clear to Todd and his agent, so it is presumably as much up to them as it is for the club to change anything. 

I don't know much about Todd's character, but I just hope he is strong enough to resist what an agent might tell him is in his best interests and make sure the deal is right for him, not his agent. I'll never forget Hucks when he signed for us and his agent resisting that and trying to get him a "better deal" elsewhere, basically going against what the player wanted. Players, especially young ones should trust their own instincts, but that is difficult when professional agents are often great salesmen......

 

[Jim Smith 2,611]

I'd imagine he's on fairly low wages now and as others have said i'd imagine that he's pushing for parity with some of our other young players who are perhaps a step ahead of him in terms of being regular first team starters and will be again next season whereas he can perhaps see he'd likely to be a squad player.

The year long option means we have him over a bit of a barrel really as if he doesn't sign what's on the table he can't go anywhere for a year. Webber's comments seem to be aimed at his agent (as he says he's had good discussions with Todd personally) with the implication being he's making unrealistic demands. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

That is a cynical view as to what the club might be offering the player.  I would back the club, especially as it has made crystal clear what the situation is ever since Webber arrived - and for that matter I would back the player to have a better understanding of the situation at the club, than an agent.

Both Farke and Webber make things public because they are demonstrating the way things are at the club - it is a we are all in it together policy and there is no doubt about it.  The talks have been going on too long - the club has obviously made it's position clear to Todd and his agent, so it is presumably as much up to them as it is for the club to change anything. 

I don't know much about Todd's character, but I just hope he is strong enough to resist what an agent might tell him is in his best interests and make sure the deal is right for him, not his agent. I'll never forget Hucks when he signed for us and his agent resisting that and trying to get him a "better deal" elsewhere, basically going against what the player wanted. Players, especially young ones should trust their own instincts, but that is difficult when professional agents are often great salesmen......

 

It is just the counter view of your rather rose tinted view of the club. 

No one apart from those involved knows the details, so to say that Todd needs a new agent, when for all you know, his agent is doing everything right, is a bit silly. 

I’m sure it will get worked out in the long run. Farke’s contract took over 6 months to sort out (maybe he should get a new agent as well). 

 

[lake district canary 4,836]

8 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

No one apart from those involved knows the details, so to say that Todd needs a new agent, when for all you know, his agent is doing everything right, is a bit silly.

I agree no-one knows the details - but I said "perhaps" he needs a new agent, not that he does need a new agent. Only Todd could decide that. 

[Woodman 92]

Maybe Todd and his agent are asking for parity with Aarons, Lewis and Godfrey's contracts & the club won't commit to that with the possibility that he isn't quite at their level (or potential).  He has more competition in his position than Max and Jamal do - but to be honest, I don't really know what his best position is, other than 'midfield'. 

And, sadly, he was targeted by a few people as the scapegoat, and only for not being Emi Buendia.  He grew up with the Murphys and would have seen how they were also scapegoated last season & might be thinking that he's better off going elsewhere, but is deeply connected to the club having been here since he was 9.

As ever, Webber's in the box seat, he's laid it all out as clearly as he's willing to for the local press & said that there's an offer there if Todd and his agent want to take it.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

I think young Todd needs an agent more than most. He is a young man who showed some promise with a club that has progressed but in the end without him than with him.

It would be quite easy to assume his negotiating team are looking for an improvement but at the moment his position is not as strong as it could be. As has been mentioned, a loan at least until January might be his option in the pecking order.

I would love to see him make it but fear a wee bit for the physical side of his game. Nothing wrong with the ability. 

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

For me, the fact is we've signed new deals recently with Aarons, Godfrey and Lewis who are the 3 breakthrough  youngsters.  Cantwell did well but then lost his place, had a chance when Buendia was suspended but then lost his place again.  The fact that he's not been able to reach agreement yet on his contract suggests to me that maybe he, or his agent, are being optimistic about his value now that the club has loads of extra money.

 

None of us know what's going on behind closed doors but for me it is a bit of a pointer that the others have signed up to the deals offered them.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,797]

All young players have agents. Even those that are technically too young will have advisors in their ear. I suspect that this is about an Agent pushing the negotiations a bit too far, and Webber going public. "We cant have 15 other players knocking on the door" is almost a public positioning of his terms , and also an early defence if the fans see a breakdown in a relationship with "one of our own" .

What is more interesting is the deafening silence on the Buendia negotiations...

[Ramrod 258]

I got some stick for criticising Todd for posting footage online of him singing 'We're going up and the scum are going down.' 

Todd does not have a strong enough personal likelihood of 'going up' as there is a strong likelihood he will be staying in the Championship on loan or playing in the u23s. 

It might just come back to embarrass him and might also reveal he has over-rated himself in a squad based on being 'humble' and 'grounded.' 

He certainly cannot complain at not having been given a chance, Farke has given him great opportunity. He might as well moan at how much Maddison gets these days. 

I don't see this ending well for him.

Maybe he needs to move on. Few players make it at parent Clubs. I think it is often necessary to be your own person elsewhere. 

 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

I read that Cantwell thread on TWTD and the OP was outed as a ' Budgie ' so i wonder who that could possibly be ?

[hogesar 10,775]

24 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

I got some stick for criticising Todd for posting footage online of him singing 'We're going up and the scum are going down.' 

Todd does not have a strong enough personal likelihood of 'going up' as there is a strong likelihood he will be staying in the Championship on loan or playing in the u23s. 

It might just come back to embarrass him and might also reveal he has over-rated himself in a squad based on being 'humble' and 'grounded.' 

He certainly cannot complain at not having been given a chance, Farke has given him great opportunity. He might as well moan at how much Maddison gets these days. 

I don't see this ending well for him.

Maybe he needs to move on. Few players make it at parent Clubs. I think it is often necessary to be your own person elsewhere. 

 

High up on the list of ridiculous posts on this thread and that's including Lakeys ramblings.

[Icecream Snow 777]

I think people forget how important Todd was in that winning run in the first half of the season.  Hernandez had looked our best player, and him needing an operation and having some time on the sidelines was a huge blow.

Whilst there's an awful lot of things that combined to get us promoted: Pukki's goals, Aarons' development, Stiepermann establishing himself as the number 10, Buendia's magic etc. But without Todd deputizing for Hernandez so well, to the point we didn't really miss him, was a critical factor in getting that early momentum . That run and pass for Pukki's goal against Reading was a guy taking his opportunity by the scruff of its neck.

Problem was that second half of the season, Hernandez, Buendia and Stiepermann had established themselves as the go-to midfield front three.

 

[Capt. Pants 5,019]

I'm going out on a limb here and suggest Todd will be in and around the first team squad. Farke is not afraid to give him an opportunity and I think he will next season too. Last season he played for the best side in the Championship and I see no value in sending him out on loan next season to that league. He'd gain nothing other than keeping fit. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

I dont think Todd should be in our first team next season. He has promise but is still a rough diamond. Had we stayed in the Championship he would have hopefully had a decent amount of first team football to continue developing, and when you're one of the stronger teams in the division, you can afford to have a younger player growing within the team.

It's different now we've been promoted. I dont think he is Premier League standard yet and needs more Championship level football. I cant see him being able to impact games at this level. We need players who can. 

Needs to be loaned to a Championship side who wil give him games IMO