Guardian linking us with Arsenal No2

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

2 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Our turnover in the Championship with parachute payments for year ended 30th June 2023 was £75m.

Of which about £35m will have been parachute payments, and just under £4m was profit on player trading.

So we're looking at a turnover of about £36m before any profits from player trading next season, halved basically.

So if the average player next season in a 25 man squad is on £1.5m a year then we'll be up sh*t creek without a paddle and spending more than 100% of turnover on player wages alone, which is how Everton ended up a billion in debt.

That's our new reality. Of course what we'll need to do is realise a large profit on player trading to keep the show on the road, and replace the likes of Gibson and Giannoulis with much cheaper players (probably players who make those two look like world beaters).

That is why it would be complete madness to sack a manager who has us in 7th level on points with the team in 6th, and a track record of taking an unfancied team up through the play offs, like some of our braindead fans are calling for. Do these fans actually understand the gravity of our current situation and how a play-off lottery ticket is our only hope of keeping hold of Sargent, Rowe, Sara, probably Gunn and prevent years of stagnation? Because it doesn't feel like it.

Yeah I think at this point there is no sense in getting rid of Wagner this season. Once we get to the end of the season though I’ve no problems in knapper wanting to change things. 
 

Next season is our last of parachute payments so yeah I’m aware of our financial situation. It’s most likely why Rowe and Sara won’t be here if we do not go up this season. 
 

whatever happens I’ll just enjoy the ride in the meantime. 

[Mr Angry 1,563]

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Yeah I think at this point there is no sense in getting rid of Wagner this season. Once we get to the end of the season though I’ve no problems in knapper wanting to change things. 
 

Next season is our last of parachute payments so yeah I’m aware of our financial situation. It’s most likely why Rowe and Sara won’t be here if we do not go up this season. 
 

whatever happens I’ll just enjoy the ride in the meantime. 

Don't our parachute payments end this season? I think you only get a payment for a third year if you spent more than one season in the Premier League.

[Terminally Yellow 2,454]

14 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

28 is too young. 

Nonsense. Our squad is being talked about as too old. A manager who can relate to a younger squad of players is essential. 

[Bali Canary 11]

16 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I can't think of anything that would undermine the manager, the team and the club more than openly discussing a change of manager at the end of the season (when the playoffs are clearly within reach)

Why would anybody care about this season - players, manager, staff?

If true we'll probably get exactly what we deserve. Nowt and nobody wanting to come here. Toxic.

Toxic being the operative word. A situation created by keyboard warriors and sad to say, supported by the individuals reporting for the local media. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

5 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Don't our parachute payments end this season? I think you only get a payment for a third year if you spent more than one season in the Premier League.

Yes! 

[Fen Canary 829]

Would certainly be a massive risk. A young lad with no managerial experience and with no connection to club or knowledge of the playing squad. Would appear to just be Knapper employing his mate, something Webber was slated for when he brought in Wagner. He’d have to hit the ground running otherwise Knapper would be getting in the neck for such a nepotistic appointment 

[BroadstairsR 2,174]

1 hour ago, Bali Canary said:

Toxic being the operative word. A situation created by keyboard warriors and sad to say, supported by the individuals reporting for the local media. 

If David Wagner doesn't realise by now that his days at Carrow Road are numbered then not only will he have on the blindfold he wears when throwing darts at his specially crafted selection dartboard, but he will also have a pair of Muffles earplugs in his ears. He has been walking a tightrope ever since that recent awful run, (not his first) and it was probably the situation with the Webber go-stay-go farce that meant that a determined decision regarding the head coach was shelved. 

A new, young DoF is bound to have his own man in mind, especially in the light of clear fan disaffection and, imo, a manager who has failed to get the most from a parachute endowed, relatively high-cost, high-paid and talented array of players who are all backed up with the finest training facilities. 

Barring a miracle, David Wagner will have had two cracks at achieving what he was employed to do. This failure will likely mean the loss of some of this talent due to financial hardship and a future of loss-making Championship mediocrity staring the club in its face.

I believe that, irrespective of the outcome this season, that the manager's exit is already decided, that he knows it and that Ben Knapper will have already planned to have his own man in. I still maintain that a mutual parting of the ways has already been settled. The more he achieves this season, the higher Wagner can hold his head and the higher his future prospects within the game will be. He was rock-bottom when his pal appointed him, remember? 

Call it entitlement or whatever, but I feel that a play-off place for this costly, well-supported squad should be more or less assured by now. Leicester apart, this team should be challenging with the rest of them up there. Some directionless performances combined with some astoundingly awful results (Rotherham, Plymouth, etc.)  have put paid to this. Despite this current decent run, not one supporter can predict the next selection quirk or even the result, at home, against a mediocre Cardiff team with any degree of certainty or confidence. 

Edited February 16 by BroadstairsR

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,286]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Nonsense. Our squad is being talked about as too old. A manager who can relate to a younger squad of players is essential. 

I don’t think it’s nonsense. 

It’s a huge amount of pressure for somebody to take still in their twenties.

Yes, age is a number, so the coffin dodgers say, but I I think that’s only true to a point. As a football head coach or manager, you need the confidence and experience that I’d say you only start to bottle up from mid thirties. Of course, I could definitely be wrong. I’m hugely generalising. But for me, his age is a factor that must be considered.

The fact Ben Knapper is also young, albeit a few years older, makes me wonder if he feels more comfortable with a younger person under him.

Edited February 16 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[BroadstairsR 2,174]

14 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I don’t think it’s nonsense. 

It’s a huge amount of pressure for somebody to take still in their twenties.

Yes, age is a number, so the coffin dodgers say, but I I think that’s only true to a point. As a football head coach or manager, you need the confidence and experience that I’d say you only start to bottle up from mid thirties. Of course, I could definitely be wrong. I’m hugely generalising. But for me, his age is a factor that must be considered.

You may well be correct, but a highly paid squad of experienced prima donas at Arsenal seem to be in tune with him and his methods.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

6 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Don't our parachute payments end this season? I think you only get a payment for a third year if you spent more than one season in the Premier League.

I was under the impression it was three years but gradually reducing each season. I think they wanted to introduce what you mentioned but not sure that’s come into effect yet as prem clubs voted against it I think. 

[Positive_Canary 27]

Love the fact that you think Knapper hasn't been doing anything, just because you haven't had a text from him detailing private discussions he's been having with other clubs.

Wagner may not be everybody's cup of tea, but my God we have some absolute cretins looking down from the stands. 

[Fuzzar 1,702]

2 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I was under the impression it was three years but gradually reducing each season. I think they wanted to introduce what you mentioned but not sure that’s come into effect yet as prem clubs voted against it I think. 

We don't get the third year parachute payment because we were relegated after only one season in the Prem. 

Had we stayed up, the third year payment of 20% would then be due. 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

The reports of there having been some contact between us and Cuesta are from credible sources. He is at a stage now where he almost certainly wants to leave the comparitive comfort zone of being an assistant and step up to the position of manager/head coach.

No matter how much Arsenal might want to keep him. And if Arsenal are looking long-term they will realise Cuesta proving himself in that role somewhere away from The Emirates is potentially good for them.

With us, as opposed to clubs where he would be the manager, he has the added protection of having a genuine - as opposed to in-name-only - sporting director above him. If we don't get him some other club, quite possibly in the Championship, will.

[Soldier on 160]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

The reports of there having been some contact between us and Cuesta are from credible sources. He is at a stage now where he almost certainly wants to leave the comparitive comfort zone of being an assistant and step up to the position of manager/head coach.

No matter how much Arsenal might want to keep him. And if Arsenal are looking long-term they will realise Cuesta proving himself in that role somewhere away from The Emirates is potentially good for them.

With us, as opposed to clubs where he would be the manager, he has the added protection of having a genuine - as opposed to in-name-only - sporting director above him. If we don't get him some other club, quite possibly in the Championship, will.

Interesting quotes from Arteta today re clubs keen to take Cuesta 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

This type of appointment tends to either go brilliantly or completely t!t5 up. I think we need to take that gamble though, with the budget we'll have from next season and our focus on youth we need a really good head coach to compete for promotion so I'd rather we take the gamble than go for someone who is more known and experienced but you know what you're getting.

The last two times we appointed someone who had never been a head coach at any level or with any age group it went very badly wrong for us and that was usually the case for other clubs at the time but assistant managers making the step up have had a lot more success in recent years as the role has changed to more emphasize a defined playing style and player development over tactical adaption and man management. 

The age thing is a bit of a concern though and he's going to have to prove himself to the squad as we have a lot of experienced pro's now. It went unreported at the time and we didn't find out until months later but Farke had a hard time of it when he first came here getting the senior pro's onside and had to ship them out to make his mark on the squad. If we do appoint this guy even if it eventually goes well things might be quite rocky at the start. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

22 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

who is more known and experienced but you know what you're getting.

I agree, as to get a coach like you describe here, we inevitably have to go for someone on something of a downward spiral, or pay more money than we can afford.

Coaches who with a track record of Championship promotion will either being doing well in the EPL and unrealistic for us (Thomas Frank, Vincent Kompany, etc) or they're a feasible option for us only because they either failed at that level or had a modicum of success before getting the sack after a failure (Dean Smith).

I'd much rather roll the dice on an unknown who COULD be the next big thing but might be a flop. Realistically, that's the only way we're going to get a manager with the nous to keep us in the EPL, assuming that is the club's ultimate aim.

A manager who has proven their ability to get a club out of the Championship and stay in the Premier League for more than a season isn't going to be coming to Norwich.

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

Knapper has already said he wants to reduce the average age of the squad. If we don't get promoted then I think it will be time for a rebuild (and even if we do go up). The age thing might not be an issue for too long, not that it should be anyway.

[Grumpy 122]

I understand the speculation regarding Wagners future at Carrow Road but the press reports of Knapper having already had dialogue with the Arsenal coach,to me ,is downright disrespectful to Wagner. Yes of course Knapper has to be ahead of the game and it is extremely difficult to stop speculation and rumour but it just doesnt sit right with me.
You could hardly blame him if he took his foot off the padal a bit.

Edited February 16 by Grumpy

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

It would be madness if the club was not exploring options and Wagner must know that his future depends on how well the rest of the season goes, any football manager knows they have zero job security with a handful of exceptions.

 

Going for someone at this level is a gamble, it's what we did with Farke and it took some time but it worked pretty well, but there's no guarantee.

 

Also our financial position if we don't go up will be very similar to the Farke season when we had to sell Maddison to generate the funds for a very careful squad rebuild.

[shefcanary 2,410]

It is clear from the Guardian article, the BBC's reference to it, and even with Arteta's presser answer to the specific question, that someone from Norwich, Arsenal or Cuesta's representatives have been talking to the press. Sporting director's the world over are always talking to potential targets, be it players or coaches, that's their job. What was it Webber said - "I have a live list of potential replacement head coaches all the time". But did he actually clear their desire to take up that position?

As for Knapper being disrespectful I'm sure he wouldn't want the story to have got out like that, but the likelihood the potential of the job being available to Cuesta was probably only mentioned in a quick catch up when Knapper dropped in on old workmates when he visited north London.

As for what type of manager do we really want. Well, our better managers (defined as those getting us promotion to the top division / preserving our position in the top half of that division) are either poached from lower league clubs and are on the up (Saunders, Bond, Worthington, Lambert, Farke) or are appointed from within (Brown, Stringer, Walker). It could be argued Cuesta with his connections to Knapper could just about qualify for that 2nd group, but otherwise it is fairly radical for Norwich.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

6 hours ago, Fuzzar said:

We don't get the third year parachute payment because we were relegated after only one season in the Prem. 

Had we stayed up, the third year payment of 20% would then be due. 

Thanks for the clarification 

[repman 635]

45 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

It is clear from the Guardian article, the BBC's reference to it, and even with Arteta's presser answer to the specific question, that someone from Norwich, Arsenal or Cuesta's representatives have been talking to the press. Sporting director's the world over are always talking to potential targets, be it players or coaches, that's their job. What was it Webber said - "I have a live list of potential replacement head coaches all the time". But did he actually clear their desire to take up that position?

As for Knapper being disrespectful I'm sure he wouldn't want the story to have got out like that, but the likelihood the potential of the job being available to Cuesta was probably only mentioned in a quick catch up when Knapper dropped in on old workmates when he visited north London.

As for what type of manager do we really want. Well, our better managers (defined as those getting us promotion to the top division / preserving our position in the top half of that division) are either poached from lower league clubs and are on the up (Saunders, Bond, Worthington, Lambert, Farke) or are appointed from within (Brown, Stringer, Walker). It could be argued Cuesta with his connections to Knapper could just about qualify for that 2nd group, but otherwise it is fairly radical for Norwich.

As to your second para, it was said that we spoke to him late last year, I don't think it's crazy to think that maybe there was serious consideration into sacking Wagner but once it became clear he wasn't going to leave we decided to hold off. That may have also been timed with us seeing an uptick in results you don't know.

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,385]

48 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

As for what type of manager do we really want. Well, our better managers (defined as those getting us promotion to the top division / preserving our position in the top half of that division) are either poached from lower league clubs and are on the up (Saunders, Bond, Worthington, Lambert, Farke) or are appointed from within (Brown, Stringer, Walker). It could be argued Cuesta with his connections to Knapper could just about qualify for that 2nd group, but otherwise it is fairly radical for Norwich.

A young, highly-rated coach from a bigger club would certainly be a new move for us, but it would also be the biggest job of Cuesta's career so far, which would put him in that first group, too. As you say, it's certainly the case that our most successful coaches have been the ones (for either reason) for whom it's their biggest job so far. Personally I would be very excited by the hiring of someone with Cuesta's profile.

Tell you what else would be radical for us - sacking our coach after a play-off victory...

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

On 15/02/2024 at 14:15, norfolkngood said:

That is exactly where Webber went wrong ,

Webber and Zoe both said the club practices this monitoring managers around the world etc as a just in case in the past ,

Webber didn't have a Manager lined up if Farke left or needed replacing and went for Smith ,

 

Are you still pushing this drivel? Do you seriously think managers around the world drop everything mid-season when Norwich comes calling?

Edited February 16 by littleyellowbirdie

[repman 635]

Reading the piece on the website about Arteta's comments today, I thought the most interesting line was this:

It's understood that Wagner will remain at Norwich until at least the end of the season, with the German commanding the support of his first-team squad.

In Knapper's interview he said something along these lines too, about how tight-knit the squad and coaching staff appeared to be. It's also clear from that interview that Knapper is perhaps a little more reserved than his predecessor, who had no fear of coming in and ruffling feathers from the outset. I wonder if Knapper, who's probably envisaging quite an active summer as it is, has basically put a lot of his plans on hold until then. 

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

The majority of posters on here have never regarded Wagner anything other than an effective caretaker manager ever since Knapper decided to do nothing in terms of replacing him prior to the AGM. If Knapper has that view, and there is absolutely nothing to suggest he hasn't, then disrespectful or not he has to start the ball rolling for finding a replacement. It's unfortunate this has somehow been linked to the media but it is what it is.

If Wagner is to leave we can't waste all of the summer looking for a replacement.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

It is clear from the Guardian article, the BBC's reference to it, and even with Arteta's presser answer to the specific question, that someone from Norwich, Arsenal or Cuesta's representatives have been talking to the press. Sporting director's the world over are always talking to potential targets, be it players or coaches, that's their job. What was it Webber said - "I have a live list of potential replacement head coaches all the time". But did he actually clear their desire to take up that position?

As for Knapper being disrespectful I'm sure he wouldn't want the story to have got out like that, but the likelihood the potential of the job being available to Cuesta was probably only mentioned in a quick catch up when Knapper dropped in on old workmates when he visited north London.

As for what type of manager do we really want. Well, our better managers (defined as those getting us promotion to the top division / preserving our position in the top half of that division) are either poached from lower league clubs and are on the up (Saunders, Bond, Worthington, Lambert, Farke) or are appointed from within (Brown, Stringer, Walker). It could be argued Cuesta with his connections to Knapper could just about qualify for that 2nd group, but otherwise it is fairly radical for Norwich.

National journalists follow Arsenal and have contacts there. They don't follow Norwich City, even when we are in the Premier League. So at a guess...

[Samwam27 527]

11 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Would certainly be a massive risk. A young lad with no managerial experience and with no connection to club or knowledge of the playing squad. Would appear to just be Knapper employing his mate, something Webber was slated for when he brought in Wagner. He’d have to hit the ground running otherwise Knapper would be getting in the neck for such a nepotistic appointment 

I'd have to disagree with this. Webber certainly went for a last ditch attempt with his old mate, just unfortunately Wagner had a dire CV from his past few clubs.

Whereas Knapper may well want to work again with Cuesta, the difference being he's one of the best, highly rated coaches out there.

Cuesta feels the sort of long project you want to get behind, similar to when we hired Farke. Everything is a risk, but the sort of one, as a fresh start, to get behind  

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Are you still pushing this drivel? Do you seriously think managers around the world drop everything mid-season when Norwich comes calling?

Do you think Webber had his finger on the pulse when he sacked Farke ? 

PL club at the time and we had the whole world to look at ,

we were also  told that with a DOF in charge there would not be a dramatic change of style etc as players were bought into the club to play that way ,

you do not think Gary O'neil would of jumped at the chance of taking Norwich job ? when smith was sacked ? 

 you do not think a No2 or Manager in another country would not come here when a PL team comes calling ? 

Zoe even said and in it is in Black and white we searched the whole of world football when Smith was sacked and we keep tabs on managers around the leagues and they found her Hubbies best mate !

do you believe the club found the best people the last two managers ?

Edited February 16 by norfolkngood

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

58 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Do you think Webber had his finger on the pulse when he sacked Farke ? 

PL club at the time and we had the whole world to look at ,

we were also  told that with a DOF in charge there would not be a dramatic change of style etc as players were bought into the club to play that way ,

you do not think Gary O'neil would of jumped at the chance of taking Norwich job ? when smith was sacked ? 

 you do not think a No2 or Manager in another country would not come here when a PL team comes calling ? 

Zoe even said and in it is in Black and white we searched the whole of world football when Smith was sacked and we keep tabs on managers around the leagues and they found her Hubbies best mate !

do you believe the club found the best people the last two managers ?

We were a Premier League club with no wins and 2 points in 10 games at the time the decision was made. That's a really high risk prospect for any incoming manager.

Did Gary Neil jump at the chance when Farke was sacked? I'm not aware of anything to suggest he did?

Why on Earth would an unproven manager manager from Europe be considered a better prospect than a manager with a Championship promotion and a subsequent season of premier league survival on his CV, which was the case with Dean Smith?

Dean Smith was a sound choice. It's a pity too many fans threw their toys out of the pram. Sadder still that there's a definite flavour of it with his successor as well, although oddly it only seems to be getting a head of steam now he's getting results finally.

Edited February 16 by littleyellowbirdie