606 caller

[Mason 47 1,403]

I agree with Hog, Branston et al

There has been an expectation in the past few years which carries with it zero patience. A lot of the players look scared to make mistakes, something I call Idah Syndrome, and I think a lot of that has to do with the volume of negative reinforcement.

It's a two-way street of course, things haven't been too smart on the pitch for a while and you cant have one without the other. But, given our rocking start, the support from the stands faded very quickly from Rotherham A onwards.

Personally I feel the club is in a much wider transitional state than most realise, and this is part of that. There is a great number of fans all over social media saying things like 'just cba to go anymore' and harsh as it may sound, that is necessary. The seats will vacate, the football will eventually turn around, the seats will fill again with the new cycle of fans with the enthusiasm of novelty. Such is life.

 

 

Edited January 1 by Mason 47

[king canary 7,680]

1 hour ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I hate this nonsense about how "fans just want to see good football". Total, total tosh. If we're playing exciting free flowing football but getting beat more often than not, the fans would kick off and demand the manager is sacked. 

Loads of fans would love to see us just get big physical lumps in who 'put it in the mixer' and you can often hear groans when we try to play through the thirds. Stop lying to yourself - style matters very little to a huge section of the fanbase. If we'd have won 2-1 today to put us top, everyone would have called it a tactical masterclass - the reason it is unacceptable is because we're midtable and we didn't win. Nothing to do with the setup. 

I somewhat agree with this- I think fans are moldable and winning trumps all. I'm sure Stoke fans pre Pulis wouldn't have said 'I'd bloody love a bunch of massive punts and Rory Delap long throws' but when someone does that successfully fans will love it for a period of time. To put it simply, winning football is good football.

I do think though that a more entertaining style can help decide how much rope a manager gets without results. Hughton was gone before we went down because he was both boring and not getting results. Alex Neil got nearly a whole season post relegation because while we were losing we were at least fun to watch. No manager can survive not getting results for any extended period but being both boring AND not getting results means your leash is very short.

[The Real Buh 3,486]

13 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I agree with Hog, Branston et al

There has been an expectation in the past few years which carries with it zero patience. A lot of the players look scared to make mistakes, something I call Idah Syndrome, and I think a lot of that has to do with the volume of negative reinforcement.

It's a two-way street of course, things haven't been too smart on the pitch for a while and you cant have one without the other. But, given our rocking start, the support from the stands faded very quickly from Rotherham A onwards.

Personally I feel the club is in a much wider transitional state than most realise, and this is part of that. There is a great number of fans all over social media saying things like 'just cba to go anymore' and harsh as it may sound, that is necessary. The seats will vacate, the football will eventually turn around, the seats will fill again with the new cycle of fans with the enthusiasm of novelty. Such is life.

 

 

Absolute

Guff

imagine coping in this way

[Mr.Carrow 380]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Totally agree. I said when Farke went that our management job was a really poisoned chalice, and this is a side-effect of it.

Unfortunately it feels like one of those unsolvable problems. Negative, pessimistic people don't change when it's pointed out to them, they double down and dig their heels in. And a lot of people don't want to go to games to be surrounded by people silently waiting for something to complain about. It's utterly depressing. 

The only thing that can change the cultural dynamic at CR is expansion.

[daly 512]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

The prize for the half time competition is a hot dog. Hardly surprising given our recent history that the fans might expect a little more.

We really are the pits when it comes to organisation and getting things right

Hot Dog for hitting the Crossbar 

Big Deal who wants that crap anyway

Scoreboard full of adverts and when NCFC team announced no subs shown

Then the clock stops working 

Sound system in South stand inaudible

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by daly

[king canary 7,680]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

The only thing that can change the cultural dynamic at CR is expansion.

This is it really.

The other option would be to do what Brentford did and bring in a policy that fans who don't use their season tickets or list them for buy back for a certain number of games can't renew but I can't imagine that would be popular.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,077]

23 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Playing that way, usually yields positive results more often than not.

If we were in our current league position, but playing exciting free flowing football, I’m nigh on certain the fans in the main would be happier than they currently are. Sure, there would be dissatisfaction at the league position, but playing in a more positive manner naturally produces a more positive response. So no, IMO, not “total, total, tosh.” 

Like in October when we kept getting beat and everyone said we were way too open?

[Fen Canary 874]

25 minutes ago, hogesar said:

How wrong you are.

I hate hotdogs.

Like Delia though I am partial to a wine/port/sherry/tequila slammer! 

[Mr.Carrow 380]

15 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I agree with Hog, Branston et al

There has been an expectation in the past few years which carries with it zero patience. A lot of the players look scared to make mistakes, something I call Idah Syndrome, and I think a lot of that has to do with the volume of negative reinforcement.

It's a two-way street of course, things haven't been too smart on the pitch for a while and you cant have one without the other. But, given our rocking start, the support from the stands faded very quickly from Rotherham A onwards.

Personally I feel the club is in a much wider transitional state than most realise, and this is part of that. There is a great number of fans all over social media saying things like 'just cba to go anymore' and harsh as it may sound, that is necessary. The seats will vacate, the football will eventually turn around, the seats will fill again with the new cycle of fans with the enthusiasm of novelty. Such is life.

 

 

These people never actually follow up on their words though. Every average/poor season there's talk of a season ticket boycott/'nobody i know is renewing", yet every season they sell out easily. I genuinely think it would be positivefor the club if 5000 or so quit. Most of those tickets would be resold to people actually excited about going. 

[TheGunnShow 6,023]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

Unfortunately it feels like one of those unsolvable problems. Negative, pessimistic people don't change when it's pointed out to them, they double down and dig their heels in. And a lot of people don't want to go to games to be surrounded by people silently waiting for something to complain about. It's utterly depressing. 

The only thing that can change the cultural dynamic at CR is expansion.

Agree with the crux of that argument but I would say that when a very popular manager goes - and let it be said, Farke was a very popular manager amongst us, there's a halo effect going on where even relatively optimistic sorts tend to be unusually critical of what comes afterwards, and the effects of such can be pernicious and go throughout the club.

In short, I don't just think it would be your average malcontent who would be hit by particular negativity, I'd say those are the conditions where it's most likely to seep into those fans who were more optimistic but not completely donning the rose-tinted specs.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,077]

16 minutes ago, king canary said:

I somewhat agree with this- I think fans are moldable and winning trumps all. I'm sure Stoke fans pre Pulis wouldn't have said 'I'd bloody love a bunch of massive punts and Rory Delap long throws' but when someone does that successfully fans will love it for a period of time. To put it simply, winning football is good football.

I do think though that a more entertaining style can help decide how much rope a manager gets without results. Hughton was gone before we went down because he was both boring and not getting results. Alex Neil got nearly a whole season post relegation because while we were losing we were at least fun to watch. No manager can survive not getting results for any extended period but being both boring AND not getting results means your leash is very short.

Basically sums it up perfectly.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

3 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Like in October when we kept getting beat and everyone said we were way too open?

When did we play exciting football in October?

[Monty13 2,253]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Yeah but it's not just today. We played well against Huddersfield but Still booed playing it out from the back even though it created our chances.

It must be horrible playing in front of our home crowd,  the away team has a leg up already.

Ironically the snakepit were singing "Wagner your football is sh*t" louder than any other noise they'd made in the past 5 games and what followed a minute later was an excellent passing move finished by Sargent to precision. The two brain cells in that stand must have been in danger of meeting one another.

Maybe calling them divorcees wasn’t a smart move?

I think Buh is right to be honest, you can’t simultaneously hate the people that make the noise and then be surprised when they don’t.

It’s been a good few years since I bothered getting a seat in the lower Barclay, just realised it was not me to be honest. I’ll make noise when I get to games, clap and cheer but I’d rather watch the game intently than heckle the opposition.

However I’ve always appreciated the level of noise from those that do sit in those areas, they are an important part of the club. I’m not convinced they are appreciated enough.

You get the rough with the smooth. I don’t know what game you were watching Hoggy but it was pretty **** until that happened.

[The Real Buh 3,486]

14 minutes ago, daly said:

We really are the pits when it comes to organisation and getting things right

Hot Dog for hitting the Crossbar 

Big Deal who wants that crap anyway

Scoreboard full of adverts and when NCFC team announced no subs shown

Then the clock stops working 

Sound system in South stand inaudible

 

 

 

 

I swear to god the announcer said “Jeff Sargent” as well

[The Real Buh 3,486]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Maybe calling them divorcees wasn’t a smart move?

I think Buh is right to be honest, you can’t simultaneously hate the people that make the noise and then be surprised when they don’t.

It’s been a good few years since I bothered getting a seat in the lower Barclay, just realised it was not me to be honest. I’ll make noise when I get to games, clap and cheer but I’d rather watch the game intently than heckle the opposition.

However I’ve always appreciated the level of noise from those that do sit in those areas, they are an important part of the club. I’m not convinced they are appreciated enough.

You get the rough with the smooth. I don’t know what game you were watching Hoggy but it was pretty **** until that happened.

Expecting the plebs to make the noise for them? 

Enjoy your silence, 80%ers. It continues until things really change.

[Mr.Carrow 380]

1 hour ago, S_81 said:

Oh I can read. A horrible sense of entitlement was referred to. Hence my disagreement. 
As for Smith and Wagner - neither largely delivered much to cheer about. But the crowd are doing their best. But it’s draining watching such turgid dross. Or poor performances from players who are paid to play better. You seem to be overlooking these things, which is just odd. 

Southampton players are higher paid than ours, so by your logic it was a great result today, right?

[Grando 283]

1 hour ago, daly said:

Why would anyone continually turn up late for a game 

I’ve arrived late three times in around 39 years, so I’m not sure that’s ‘continually’. Though with how we’re currently playing I must admit I wasn’t too bothered about missing a few minutes.

[Midlands Yellow 4,101]

Come on 80 percenters, make some noise next home match. 

[S_81 886]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

Southampton players are higher paid than ours, so by your logic it was a great result today, right?

Yes it was a good result. I don’t see anyone disputing that. The performances, somewhat consistently, bar against Shef Wed and Hudds, however…..

[Mason 47 1,403]

37 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Absolute

Guff

imagine coping in this way

Thank you for the well reasoned and thoughtful argument

[nu_matik 167]

2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Pretty much true - it’s hard to say quite why it is, but there is definitely a sense of entitlement.  It isn’t just Wagner or Smith, it was there under Farke’s last games.  It still seems to be a post-covid hangover among the crowd, that we’ve been unable to shake off.

 

 

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

You're spot on. As I just said, as soon as we conceded the Snakepit started singing "Wagner your football is sh*t"

Either have the balls to do it before we concede, or keep quiet. Don't wait for a singular goal. And of course they sing it again and we score a well worked goal and they suddenly stop again.

They're so flip-flop based purely on result, as you say. I'd respect an actual prolonged anti Wagner campaign as at least the consistency would show some backbone to their calls. As it is they look far more stupid than Wagner himself.

Hard agree. Fans wanted us to fail from the off.

Fans in lower barclay near me effing and jeffing about Wagner when it was the players pissing about and playing poorly first 15 mins.

The snakepit spend most games when we play well taking the **** out of the Barclay anyway

Booed Idah when he came on.

It's 'flat' when we play better but aren't two goals up.

There's a massive massive sense of entitlement and makes being in the crowd a pretty negative experience to be honest. We've never been an Anfield a Villa Park or any other loud type of atmospheric ground.

Our Fans and crowd have been like this through Wagner, Smith and massive parts of Farkes reign. Lambert era aside we had the same issues with the Alex Neil and Hughton reign too. Our Fans can't wait to moan and only sing consistently when we're winning comfortably and at the top of the league.

I go and enjoy it because my mates are there, but I witness a serious case of angry negative men looking like entitled babies so much of the time.

If anything it's the River End though who make pretty much zero noise regardless, has anything ever been done to promote the idea of some positive noise down there?

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,155]

Most fans I speak to in person who have season tickets or go regularly don't really care about results or how we play. They just like the day out with their family or go out of habit because they always have done.

The age thing is a sensitive topic and I know plenty of people around my age or younger who go and sit in silence and whenever I have sat in stands outside the Barclay it's usually one of the old boys who try to get some chants going but all the boring miserable sods just ignore them or give them looks so fair play to them but they're the exception to the rule. I'm not criticizing older fans and I know first hand how embarrassing it is trying to make some noise but getting looks or being told to sit down and be quiet in the 3 other stands so I don't blame people for staying silent because most fans in those stands don't want to support their team, they just want to sit down, drink or eat whatever they bought in the concourse and watch the game in peace and quiet . We do have lots of fans who are either too old to be bothered to get up and make noise and who just want to sit down and watch the game and loads of families who turn up together for the day out but aren't that interested and who just sit there in silence eating snacks and playing on their phones. Our crowd is mostly made up of very old people and families taking their kids out and you aren't going to get a big atmosphere from that demographic as a general rule. 

The Barclay is different, you get a real mix of people in there who are really passionate about supporting their team and whether they're quiet or not depends on how the team is doing which is fair enough. But in all the other stands im always surrounded by very old people or families who give me dirty looks when I try to get a chant going like I'm disturbing their peace and quiet or upsetting their small children by making noise so I gave up a while ago trying to loudly cheer on the team in those areas. Like I said before you occasionally get one old boy trying to get a song going as well but people just mutter under their breaths about wanting him to be quiet or wanting them to sit down so they can watch the game in peace.

I don't know what the solution is. Maybe offering cheaper tickets? Outside of Norwich and some of the posher villages, Norfolk is a very impoverished county with some of the most deprived areas in the country which puts a lot of fans off going.  Also  people from Norfolk tend to be very reserved and quiet. But even though the team is struggling right now the atmosphere in the stands is a big problem and something has to be done to improve the atmosphere. 

Edited January 1 by Christoph Stiepermann

[king canary 7,680]

3 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Most fans I speak to in person who have season tickets or go regularly don't really care about results or how we play. They just like the day out with their family or go out of habit because they always have done.

The age thing is a sensitive topic and I know plenty of people around my age or younger who go and sit in silence and whenever I have sat in stands outside the Barclay it's usually one of the old boys who try to get some chants going but all the boring miserable sods just ignore them or give them looks so fair play to them but they're the exception to the rule. I'm not criticizing older fans and I know first hand how embarrassing it is trying to make some noise but getting looks or being told to sit down and be quiet in the 3 other stands so I don't blame people for staying silent because most fans in those stands don't want to support their team, they just want to sit down, drink or eat whatever they bought in the concourse and watch the game in peace and quiet . We do have lots of fans who are either too old to be bothered to get up and make noise and who just want to sit down and watch the game and loads of families who turn up together for the day out but aren't that interested and who just sit there in silence eating snacks and playing on their phones. Our crowd is mostly made up of very old people and families taking their kids out and you aren't going to get a big atmosphere from that demographic as a general rule. 

The Barclay is different, you get a real mix of people in there who are really passionate about supporting their team and whether they're quiet or not depends on how the team is doing which is fair enough. But in all the other stands im always surrounded by very old people or families who give me dirty looks when I try to get a chant going like I'm disturbing their peace and quiet or upsetting their small children by making noise so I gave up a while ago trying to loudly cheer on the team in those areas. Like I said before you occasionally get one old boy trying to get a song going as well but people just mutter under their breaths about wanting him to be quiet or wanting them to sit down so they can watch the game in peace.

I don't know what the solution is. Maybe offering cheaper tickets because outside of Norwich and some of the posher villages Norfolk is a very impoverished county with some of the most deprived areas in the country and as a general rule people from Norfolk tend to be very reserved but despite the teams struggles the atmosphere in the stands is a big problem and something has to be done to improve the atmosphere. 

I'll never forget the bloke in Jarrold who told me off for shouting because he had his bloody radio on and he couldn't hear 5live through his earphone when I was loud. Just baffling behaviour at a football match.

[Mason 47 1,403]

19 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Most fans I speak to in person who have season tickets or go regularly don't really care about results or how we play. They just like the day out with their family or go out of habit because they always have done.

The age thing is a sensitive topic and I know plenty of people around my age or younger who go and sit in silence and whenever I have sat in stands outside the Barclay it's usually one of the old boys who try to get some chants going but all the boring miserable sods just ignore them or give them looks so fair play to them but they're the exception to the rule. I'm not criticizing older fans and I know first hand how embarrassing it is trying to make some noise but getting looks or being told to sit down and be quiet in the 3 other stands so I don't blame people for staying silent because most fans in those stands don't want to support their team, they just want to sit down, drink or eat whatever they bought in the concourse and watch the game in peace and quiet . We do have lots of fans who are either too old to be bothered to get up and make noise and who just want to sit down and watch the game and loads of families who turn up together for the day out but aren't that interested and who just sit there in silence eating snacks and playing on their phones. Our crowd is mostly made up of very old people and families taking their kids out and you aren't going to get a big atmosphere from that demographic as a general rule. 

The Barclay is different, you get a real mix of people in there who are really passionate about supporting their team and whether they're quiet or not depends on how the team is doing which is fair enough. But in all the other stands im always surrounded by very old people or families who give me dirty looks when I try to get a chant going like I'm disturbing their peace and quiet or upsetting their small children by making noise so I gave up a while ago trying to loudly cheer on the team in those areas. Like I said before you occasionally get one old boy trying to get a song going as well but people just mutter under their breaths about wanting him to be quiet or wanting them to sit down so they can watch the game in peace.

I don't know what the solution is. Maybe offering cheaper tickets? Outside of Norwich and some of the posher villages, Norfolk is a very impoverished county with some of the most deprived areas in the country which puts a lot of fans off going.  Also  people from Norfolk tend to be very reserved and quiet. But even though the team is struggling right now the atmosphere in the stands is a big problem and something has to be done to improve the atmosphere. 

I have heard that safe standing is coming to multiple areas of the ground. So perhaps this is the play ?

[Sufyellow 223]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

The atmosphere is terrible even if we play well. There's a horrible sense of entitlement that's only really came into play the last couple years presumably because of our recent history has had us generally dominating the championship. 

It's not entitlement,  it's there is no plan and no vision,  why would the fans care when at this moment there's no future in it. I keep saying it , the club need to tell us the plan to buy into. I don't think we have one unfortunately.

[hogesar 9,760]

Just now, Sufyellow said:

It's not entitlement,  it's there is no plan and no vision,  why would the fans care when at this moment there's no future in it. I keep saying it , the club need to tell us the plan to buy into. I don't think we have one unfortunately.

Why were our fans louder when we had 18 loan players getting relegated under Roeder then? We didn't need to be told about some big future plan.

Just go support the team who despite everything are at the very least working hard. 

[Big Vince 323]

3 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

We were second favourites to win the title last season and joint 5th this season. The crap atmosphere is down to mediocre performances and poor campaigns including another embarrassing one in the PL. 

The acceptance of the inability to compete at the highest level of English football is the spectre that hangs over the club. Everyone now knows that Championship and no further is as good as it gets for the club. 

The gulf between Norwich City and 17th in the EPL is now so enormous as to be unbridgeable. This is now an accepted fact. Yet only 4 years ago Norwich won this league with Villa in the play-offs. Since then, their fortunes have gone in opposite directions with Villa now potentially even winning the EPL. Despite this compelling evidence to the contrary, Delia still maintains that money coming into a club is a bad thing, as per her recent comments in that interview. The woman is a fool and the club and fans have to suffer because of it.

[Sufyellow 223]

3 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

The 20% aren’t willing to dance and chant for the 80% anymore.

I totally agree with that , her comments virtually killed anything the fans had left. It's a shame she can't get her 80% to sing one song a game. 

[hogesar 9,760]

Why are these people coming to games then?

You hate the ownership but won't make any noise about it.

You hate the manager but won't make any noise about it.

Yet you come to watch the team but won't make any noise to support them? Surely if you're not going to do the first two, even if it only makes a 1% difference, surely getting behind the side who are at least working hard makes sense? 

Or else why bother?

I really hope these online threats of people not renewing are true, it could be the best thing to happen to our fanbase.

Although, judging by the amount who said they weren't going to go today, and the stadium full around me, I have my doubts.

[Sufyellow 223]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

You're spot on. As I just said, as soon as we conceded the Snakepit started singing "Wagner your football is sh*t"

Either have the balls to do it before we concede, or keep quiet. Don't wait for a singular goal. And of course they sing it again and we score a well worked goal and they suddenly stop again.

They're so flip-flop based purely on result, as you say. I'd respect an actual prolonged anti Wagner campaign as at least the consistency would show some backbone to their calls. As it is they look far more stupid than Wagner himself.

I would like to see Knapper come out and either stand by his manager and say the club will try and get a couple of players into help. Which means he stays and we judge Knapper and his signings. Or we sack the manager and start all over again and learn nothing about Knapper.  We won't get a good manager mid-season.As I said we also need to know the plan going forward. As a really vocal fan , the future I see is we and stuck with Webbers rubbish signings , we will be selling Rowe and Sara before next season and the squad will get worse , I expect lots think the same , so why would they be passionate and excited over ten minute spells ?