A fish rots from the head

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

[essex canary 496]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

Off-pitch executives that set the vision and strategy for the Club that continuously results in the recruitment of easily injured players and penny pinches from fans into the bargain. Your solution is?

[Indy 3,300]

23 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

Funny you should say this as we have an average squad, we have a good starting 11 when all is fit and we have a very old backbone to this team who cannot be expected to play so many games in a row! So I agree, is there something wrong with our scouting and spending, have we gambled on experienced players at this level as we don’t have the cash to buy the better lower league players or was it by choice? Is our fitness and coaching really any worse than other teams and we only have two strikers one of whom has played the previous three games where we have lost two injured from our starting squad this season.

It’s interesting, for me Barnes, Duffy we’re good signings, Stacey solid enough, Batth & Whang no idea why but only because we needed to cover Sargent injury and selling our best defender in my opinion. Somewhat panic players needed at the last minute! Foreshaw, who knows but just adds more experience!

We got off to the start we really needed and the performance levels have been dropping off, yesterday was highlighted how you can’t ask 30+ players to play 2 games a week at high tempo and you can’t loan in a 32 year old striker who’s never played in England and expect him to be able to play at this level!

I’m with you Wagner is not to blame, as managers go he’s one of the better ones we’ve had recently, but I feel this summer has been a summer of opportunity missed, the takeover appears to be a mess which some fans aren’t happy about, Webber resigned yet still overseeing the football side of the club! Including recruitment and now we have the fans slowly questioning the football! 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Indy

[Duncan Edwards 2,237]

8 minutes ago, Indy said:

Funny you should say this as we have an average squad, we have a good starting 11 when all is fit and we have a very old backbone to this team who cannot be expected to play so many games in a row! So I agree, is there something wrong with our scouting and spending, have we gambled on experienced players at this level as we don’t have the cash to buy the better lower league players or was it by choice? Is our fitness and coaching really any worse than other teams and we only have two strikers one of whom has played the previous three games where we have lost two injured from our starting squad this season.

It’s interesting, for me Barnes, Duffy we’re good signings, Stacey solid enough, Batth & Whang no idea why but only because we needed to cover Sargent injury and selling our best defender in my opinion. Somewhat panic players needed at the last minute! Foreshaw, who knows but just adds more experience!

We got off to the start we really needed and the performance levels have been dropping off, yesterday was highlighted how you can’t ask 30+ players to play 2 games a week at high tempo and you can’t loan in a 32 year old striker who’s never played in England and expect him to be able to play at this level!

I’m with you Wagner is not to blame, as managers go he’s one of the better ones we’ve had recently, but I feel this summer has been a summer of opportunity missed, the takeover appears to be a mess which some fans aren’t happy about, Webber resigned yet still overseeing the football side of the club! Including recruitment and now we have the fans slowly questioning the football! 

Not sure this is particularly fair, Indy. We currently have a ridiculous amount of front-line injuries, Hanley, Sargent, Barnes, Nunez, Sainz etc and while that doesn’t excuse what happened yesterday or the drop off in form, it’s a big factor. I’m also a bit surprised at your ageism!!! How many of our under-30’s have played with the consistency or covered the ground that Kenny has this season?

Hwang? Here I’m with you, I’ve seen nothing from him that makes me think he’s just a bit off the pace but that’s the hope because if he’s here to cover Sargent’s injury we need a lot, lot more from him.

Horrible result yesterday and there’s a long few weeks ahead. Might be a time for Wagner to be more flexible as opposed to stuff like shoehorning Gibbs in to an advanced role a La Leicester. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

42 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Off-pitch executives that set the vision and strategy for the Club that continuously results in the recruitment of easily injured players and penny pinches from fans into the bargain. Your solution is?

Barnes doesn't have a record of injury elsewhere. Sargent hasn't been especially fragile.

Edited September 24, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Indy 3,300]

4 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Not sure this is particularly fair, Indy. We currently have a ridiculous amount of front-line injuries, Hanley, Sargent, Barnes, Nunez, Sainz etc and while that doesn’t excuse what happened yesterday or the drop off in form, it’s a big factor. I’m also a bit surprised at your ageism!!! How many of our under-30’s have played with the consistency or covered the ground that Kenny has this season?

Hwang? Here I’m with you, I’ve seen nothing from him that makes me think he’s just a bit off the pace but that’s the hope because if he’s here to cover Sargent’s injury we need a lot, lot more from him.

Horrible result yesterday and there’s a long few weeks ahead. Might be a time for Wagner to be more flexible as opposed to stuff like shoehorning Gibbs in to an advanced role a La Leicester. 

As do agree about injury list from the summer but Nunez, Hanley & Saint haven’t been part of this squad, so not really part of the argument of injuries hitting us! But I do agree we have five players who would be squad players….

I am certainly not defending the younger player either, Idah has to step it up, Rowe has really not been in the game in the last two and I’ve said Barnes and McLean have been important and best players for the start of the season but I also said early on older players can’t recover or keep up the level of playing needed to play two games a week, not a gist but fact!

I am critical of our recruitment this summer I did say time will tell, we’re still too 6 but looking really shaky at the moment.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

7 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

But you don’t know it will be more of the same do you, nobody does! 
 

Sometimes it’s better, sometimes it’s worse, but unless you buy a ticket you won’t win the raffle will you?

Anyway, isn’t MA now deemed to be a fan? So it won’t be the end of it if that’s the case.

No I don't know, that's why I said I guess.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Nah, @Dean Coneys boots assured me MA doesn't want to invest any money into the club so if you think he has, you're sadly mistaken 🙃

It is a pretty accurate rule of thumb that I am always wrong, especially on matters of fact, and that DCB is always right, with that one misjudgment over a summer transfer window the exception that absolutely proves this rule...😍

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

59 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is a pretty accurate rule of thumb that I am always wrong, especially on matters of fact, and that DCB is always right, with that one misjudgment over a summer transfer window the exception that absolutely proves this rule...😍

So the current owners invest zilch now but are great owners, the potential new owner isn't investing but is a bad choice...OK.

I'd have him now just for better governance, structure and new ideas.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

Or is it that the slightest knock and the players are told they are unavailable. I am not suggesting cortesone injections like the old days but do wonder if too much ismade of a knock that may just be painful.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

18 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So the current owners invest zilch now but are great owners, the potential new owner isn't investing but is a bad choice...OK.

I'd have him now just for better governance, structure and new ideas.

Not what I have said. Actually nowhere near anything I have said.

[Robert N. LiM 4,363]

4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

Think the key question is whether Wagner can come up with an effective plan B. Plan A looked great when Barnes and Sargent were fit. But the results since Sargent's injury (I haven't seen any of those games except about 20 mins of the Rotherham game) suggest that he hasn't found a way to get us playing since we lost them. It's a coaching challenge and it will be interesting (possibly in the Chinese sense...) to see whether DW can rise to it. Worrying signs so far.

[hogesar 9,676]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So the current owners invest zilch now but are great owners, the potential new owner isn't investing but is a bad choice...OK.

I'd have him now just for better governance, structure and new ideas.

It was @Dean Coneys boots who claimed the potential new owner wasn't investing. And he was wrong. Purple never said basically anything you've just claimed.

[The Real Buh 3,432]

I said and maintain that Webber being allowed to just hang around after he’s announced he’s going Is toxic.

He has no business being here, his presence damages the club from within.

Edited September 24, 2023 by The Real Buh

[sgncfc 1,228]

It's fairly well evidenced that success in the Championship is not something that is down to the amount of money invested in the squad. I'm sorry if that doesn't sit right with some on here, but with the exception of the Wolves side promoted a few years ago almost none of the promoted sides of the last 10 years have spent big money. We did it twice ourselves without spending much. On the two or three occasions over the last 20 years when we've had the most expensive squad in the division we've been useless.

The best current example of the hugely wealthy owners, no success result is Stoke City. Their owner is worth over £8bn. They spent a fortune in the summer. They're 20th.

Success in the EFL depends on finding the right person or team of coaches/managers whatever you wish to call them. Ipswich have shown that. We showed it. Burnley. Luton. Fulham. The man/woman at the top has to fit.

When Webber/Farke came in, it took over a season but something clicked. We made a huge, massive error in sacking Farke without also sacking Webber. If one went, they should both have gone.

For me, with Webber on the way, his replacement needs to get rid of Wagner and bring in his own man/woman (and I'd be delighted with Emma Hayes as our manager, but we couldn't afford her). 

 

 

 

[City Stand Ultra 41]

4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

This isn't misfortune.  We signed 3 players (Barnes, Duffy and Stacey) of whom none played anywhere near half a season of first team football so  it is laughable to expect old men Barnes and Duffy to play 50 games in a championship/cup season given their age and lack of games last season 

It is no surprise to me that Barnes is now injured and it is heavily odds on that Duffy will join him in the not too distant future 

Stacey might be able to make it into the New Year but I'll be surprised if he goes unscathed too across the season.  
 

Our recruitment strategy of buying ageing bit part premier players was never going to work across a long hard championship season and now the chickens are coming home to roost 

So yes I do blame our executives for implementing a strategy that was never going to work (remember Haydn, Matt Jarvis et al - do we never learn)

Even more galling when you see Hugil knocking them in for Rotherham and generally being a one man wrecking ball up front.  Is he good enough for the premier league - no.  Would he have made a great back up for Barnes - yes 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

13 hours ago, City Stand Ultra said:

This isn't misfortune.  We signed 3 players (Barnes, Duffy and Stacey) of whom none played anywhere near half a season of first team football so  it is laughable to expect old men Barnes and Duffy to play 50 games in a championship/cup season given their age and lack of games last season 

It is no surprise to me that Barnes is now injured and it is heavily odds on that Duffy will join him in the not too distant future 

Stacey might be able to make it into the New Year but I'll be surprised if he goes unscathed too across the season.  
 

Our recruitment strategy of buying ageing bit part premier players was never going to work across a long hard championship season and now the chickens are coming home to roost 

So yes I do blame our executives for implementing a strategy that was never going to work (remember Haydn, Matt Jarvis et al - do we never learn)

Even more galling when you see Hugil knocking them in for Rotherham and generally being a one man wrecking ball up front.  Is he good enough for the premier league - no.  Would he have made a great back up for Barnes - yes 

Prior to this season, our squad was too young and inexperienced. Complementing that with older heads was clearly necessary as demonstrated by how we keep coming unstuck relying only on younger players.

Never going to work is far too strong. This injury situation was never a given. As always, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

13 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Think the key question is whether Wagner can come up with an effective plan B. Plan A looked great when Barnes and Sargent were fit. But the results since Sargent's injury (I haven't seen any of those games except about 20 mins of the Rotherham game) suggest that he hasn't found a way to get us playing since we lost them. It's a coaching challenge and it will be interesting (possibly in the Chinese sense...) to see whether DW can rise to it. Worrying signs so far.

What if there simply isn't a way with the players available? It's the players on the pitch, not the manager.

Edited September 25, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[TheBaldOne66 687]

27 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What if there simply isn't a way with the players available? It's the players on the pitch, not the manager.

Then you have to ask why the Sporting Director allowed those players to be signed

[Davidlingfield 63]

52 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Then you have to ask why the Sporting Director allowed those players to be signed

Because he doesn’t care as he is leaving anyway, but happy to collect another six months of exorbitant salary whilst working his notice??

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Then you have to ask why the Sporting Director allowed those players to be signed

Presumably because they're good footballers, as we saw before their unfortunate injuries. The problem is we don't have the depth of squad. We clearly bought in experience to pass on experience from older heads to younger heads to better equip the younger heads down the line to hopefully do better, but obviously that requires more time than we've had before so many important players have become injured.

Sometimes things just happen. Really don't understand this perennial need to find someone to have a hissy fit at when the wheels come off when it's not really anybody's fault.

Edited September 25, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[A Load of Squit 5,169]

1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Then you have to ask why the Sporting Director allowed those players to be signed

Stupid.

[A Load of Squit 5,169]

26 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Presumably because they're good footballers, as we saw before their unfortunate injuries. The problem is we don't have the depth of squad. We clearly bought in experience to pass on experience from older heads to younger heads to better equip the younger heads down the line to hopefully do better, but obviously that requires more time than we've had before so many important players have become injured.

Sometimes things just happen. Really don't understand this perennial need to find someone to have a hissy fit at when the wheels come off when it's not really anybody's fault.

Not stupid.

[essex canary 496]

34 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Not stupid.

We can all drive our cars down the road for the wheels to come off and it will never be anybody's fault. Probably a good maxim for why our schools and hospitals are crumbling and waters polluted etc.

[Capt. Pants 4,236]

We've now lost 3 out of 4 including Rotherham and Plymouth so it is somebody's fault. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,363]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What if there simply isn't a way with the players available? It's the players on the pitch, not the manager.

There might not be a way to beat Leicester with our two best strikers out (though Barnes played an hour or so of that game).

But there ought to be a way to not lose 2-6 to Plymouth. 

[baldy09 156]

On 23/09/2023 at 17:15, HazzaJet said:

We were doing fine until Sargent got injured. It seems like his injury had an impact on the rest of the squad’s mentality

Losing just one /or two player should not have such a impact- it  absolutely has so you stated,  it means that there maybe problems elsewhere. coaching maybe lack of signings maybe .lack of cohesion , there so many reasons has to why. or simply is it the Coach/manager himself not getting the team selection right or plan B

[S_81 798]

21 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

A good squad is certainly questionable. A competitive starting 11 when all fit. But a good squad this is not 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Sometimes things just happen. Really don't understand this perennial need to find someone to have a hissy fit at when the wheels come off when it's not really anybody's fault.

Nobody's fault? Blimey, why did Hitler take his own life? Of course its somebody's fault. What is important is identifying the fault and rectifying it.

[Captain Holt 522]

22 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the toxic crusaders get going when things go awry.

The problem's very clear: A good squad that got off to a great start has picked up an absurd number of injuries to key players ridiculously quickly. This is part of a pattern that spreads over many seasons and many managers. Why does this happen and what needs to change? Are the fitness levels demanded too high? Is there something profoundly wrong with the approach of our fitness and conditioning teams?

These are all much more interesting questions than yet more tedious ranting calling on sacking off-pitch executives.

I do think questions need to be asked of our fitness teams - whether it’s familiarity bias or whatever, but it seems we get far more injuries to crucial players than most other sides?