McLean

[S27 13]

Really disappointed with his performance yesterday. Very careless booking in the 1st minute. After that was timid in his tackling enabling Southampton to shoot at goal without any tackles from his position, afraid of receiving another caution. Would have substituted him earlier in the game with Nunez. Having said that both penalty decisions were extremely harsh. Not sure where the offside came from for Barnes goal. Norwich on the receiving end of poor decisions.

[BroadstairsR 2,216]

Jack of all trades, master of none.

I like him, but I'd like better.

[Well b back 3,284]

8 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Jack of all trades, master of none.

I like him, but I'd like better.

Yet without him we fell apart last season.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I didn't  think he played well first half but did better in the 2nd.

As for the booking, I think most pros seem to think they will get away with the first one especially so early in the game.

[S27 13]

Same rules for the 1st or 90th minute (or 100th this year!)

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

Sadly he's manouvered himself into position of central defdnsive midfielder...and now captain, so will always get a place....and that creates a problem

As was witnessed yesterday and will continue to be witnessed against the better sides in this league, in playing this 442 formation ,  we would need someone far better at shielding the back 4 than McLean.

Incredibly , the club appear to have very little appetite or interest in addressing this area.

As is being witnessed, clubs are now paying £100m + for DMs such is their importance to any team...and yet we think we're above needing one at all

[Mason 47 1,403]

For all this clamour to get a defensive midfielder there seems to be a continuing misunderstanding of how we play now. Tettey was fantastic at what he did, for example, but would be utterly disastrous if you put him in the role McLean currently inhabits.

Personally, I thought he had a good game considering he played 95+ minutes on a yellow. More disappointing for me were Hernandez and Gibson. The former consistently lost possession poorly leading to a lot of Southampton pressure, and the latter unfortunately looks like he's half a second behind where he should be.

[Robert N. LiM 4,570]

14 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

As is being witnessed, clubs are now paying £100m + for DMs such is their importance to any team...and yet we think we're above needing one at all

Or to put it another way, the fact that clubs are paying £100M for DMs shows how difficult that position is to fill and how much at a premium those players are. I completely agree we're crying out for a player of that kind, but I've rarely if ever seen anyone on this board suggest a plausible name of who that player might be. I imagine a sex-change for Keira Walsh would cost less than £100M, but there would obviously be issues of consent. And she's probably happy at [checks notes] Barcelona anyway.

[Robert N. LiM 4,570]

4 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

For all this clamour to get a defensive midfielder there seems to be a continuing misunderstanding of how we play now.

Indeed - but I wonder if we've arrived at that system because of how difficult we've found it to sign a decent DM...

[Ian 1,136]

4 points out of 6, one of which was an away game against probably the best team in the league and which we were basically cheated out of.

Not sure I would be criticising any individual player too much. Always room for improvement, but the results and performances so far make it difficult for me to be "very disappointed" with any individual.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

5 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

For all this clamour to get a defensive midfielder there seems to be a continuing misunderstanding of how we play now. Tettey was fantastic at what he did, for example, but would be utterly disastrous if you put him in the role McLean currently inhabits.

Personally, I thought he had a good game considering he played 95+ minutes on a yellow. More disappointing for me were Hernandez and Gibson. The former consistently lost possession poorly leading to a lot of Southampton pressure, and the latter unfortunately looks like he's half a second behind where he should be.

No misunderstanding from me when we've just conceded 4 goals.

In a 433 with an extra body, we have that extra bit of cover. In what is essentially a 442 that we're now playing , the need for such a player to screen and win the ball i.e Skipp or Tettey becomes even more crucial.

As for a name, how about a loan move for O'Brien at Forest who doesnt seem near their first team?

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,042]

1 hour ago, S27 said:

Same rules for the 1st or 90th minute (or 100th this year!)

Same rules yes, how they are applied no, unless it is something serious or the clampdown on time wasting then referees tend to let the first minor indiscretion go, otherwise they set a benchmark that means yellow cards are handed out like confetti or worse they end up being inconsistent in their disciplining of players. I do not know what Kenny was actually booked for, if it was time wasting fair enough, if it was a minor indiscretion then he was unlucky to get booked so early in the game..............

Edited August 13, 2023 by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB

[norfolkngood 1,092]

17 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

No misunderstanding from me when we've just conceded 4 goals.

In a 433 with an extra body, we have that extra bit of cover. In what is essentially a 442 that we're now playing , the need for such a player to screen and win the ball i.e Skipp or Tettey becomes even more crucial.

As for a name, how about a loan move for O'Brien at Forest who doesnt seem near their first team?

Tough one that , i would love a CDM but would that take some of our attacking play away ? 

i  think 2 in CM is a bit light but we have done well so far ,

letting in 5 goals in 2 games is a concern ,scoring 6 in 2 games is great 

we just have to find that balance . how i have no idea but a CDM to shut the game down at the end might of got us 3 pts ? 

[king canary 7,681]

Even if we're not in need of a classic holding midfielder, we still should be looking to improve on McLean. He's 31 and having to play in a somewhat unnatural role. He's not the best we can do.

[chicken 2,656]

18 hours ago, king canary said:

Even if we're not in need of a classic holding midfielder, we still should be looking to improve on McLean. He's 31 and having to play in a somewhat unnatural role. He's not the best we can do.

Important to note a holding midfielder and defensive midfielder are different.

Think Fox Vs Tettey.

[hogesar 9,776]

Mclean is a very good all-round midfielder at this level and would walk into most sides.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,080]

He's average at best at this level and we should be looking to upgrade him. If we ever got promoted again I would sincerely hope we don't think he's viable in the Premier League ever again. 

[Wibble 109]

27 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Mclean is a very good all-round midfielder at this level and would walk into most sides.

 

12 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He's average at best at this level and we should be looking to upgrade him.

Glad thats been cleared up

[dylanisabaddog 5,026]

19 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

For all this clamour to get a defensive midfielder there seems to be a continuing misunderstanding of how we play now. Tettey was fantastic at what he did, for example, but would be utterly disastrous if you put him in the role McLean currently inhabits.

Personally, I thought he had a good game considering he played 95+ minutes on a yellow. More disappointing for me were Hernandez and Gibson. The former consistently lost possession poorly leading to a lot of Southampton pressure, and the latter unfortunately looks like he's half a second behind where he should be.

Onel has now had 2 poor games. Once Sainz and the Swiss guy are fully up to speed I doubt we'll see much of him

[Nuff Said 5,183]

19 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Tough one that , i would love a CDM but would that take some of our attacking play away ? 

i  think 2 in CM is a bit light but we have done well so far ,

letting in 5 goals in 2 games is a concern ,scoring 6 in 2 games is great 

we just have to find that balance . how i have no idea but a CDM to shut the game down at the end might of got us 3 pts ? 

Surely this is the point? If we played a CDM, we would either need a team of 12 or we would lose someone elsewhere. So while potentially conceding fewer goals, we’d also be scoring less. Can’t have it both ways.

[Feedthewolf 4,897]

16 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He's average at best at this level and we should be looking to upgrade him. If we ever got promoted again I would sincerely hope we don't think he's viable in the Premier League ever again. 

Kenny McLean is 'average at best' at Championship level? Is that seriously what you're saying?

I'd agree that we should be looking to upgrade him if we were to get promoted, but all available evidence from various managers indicates that he is an outstanding player at this level. He's played on the right of an attacking midfield three, in the 10 position, as a holding midfielder, he's even put in a great shift at left-back for a while... and that's just the gaps he's filled rather than playing in his preferred position as an 8.

Glad he's our captain, glad he's on the teamsheet every week. Sadly some supporters made their minds up about him years ago and nothing he can do will change their minds. We'll miss Kenny when he's gone.

[Capt. Pants 4,298]

There's a limit to how many players you can throw forward in an attack. We actually scored 4 on Saturday despite Kenny sitting fairly deep all game, so I'm not sure that's a reason for not playing one.

The slightly more concerning thing is that Gibbs isn't getting much of a look in, perhaps he's failing to impress much in training so far?

We need another centre mid whether that be an all rounder or specific Skipp like player.

On merit it's Kenny's shirt though.

[Nuff Said 5,183]

28 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Kenny McLean is 'average at best' at Championship level? Is that seriously what you're saying?

I'd agree that we should be looking to upgrade him if we were to get promoted, but all available evidence from various managers indicates that he is an outstanding player at this level. He's played on the right of an attacking midfield three, in the 10 position, as a holding midfielder, he's even put in a great shift at left-back for a while... and that's just the gaps he's filled rather than playing in his preferred position as an 8.

Glad he's our captain, glad he's on the teamsheet every week. Sadly some supporters made their minds up about him years ago and nothing he can do will change their minds. We'll miss Kenny when he's gone.

Yeah, but… pointing… or something… boo!

[hogesar 9,776]

29 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Kenny McLean is 'average at best' at Championship level? Is that seriously what you're saying?

I'd agree that we should be looking to upgrade him if we were to get promoted, but all available evidence from various managers indicates that he is an outstanding player at this level. He's played on the right of an attacking midfield three, in the 10 position, as a holding midfielder, he's even put in a great shift at left-back for a while... and that's just the gaps he's filled rather than playing in his preferred position as an 8.

Glad he's our captain, glad he's on the teamsheet every week. Sadly some supporters made their minds up about him years ago and nothing he can do will change their minds. We'll miss Kenny when he's gone.

Fans saw how absolutely diabolical we were as a team without Mclean and Hanley yet those same posters keep crying for us to immediately replace them.

I get it for the prem, but at this level we aren't getting much better.

[jonnyace1 27]

McLean is better in an advanced role. The team needs a proper DM- this will help the defence and I am convinced will stop the mass concession of goals. In this system you either sacrifice a winger or it’s a straight choice between McLean and Sara. I wonder which of those gets in?. McLean is versatile but does not provide goals , assists, penalties or free kicks. He also does not give the defensive cover required. There is a place for him but I don’t think it should be first XI. I would have been keen to try Sorensen at DM for an extended.run to see what happens but his abysmal injury record means the club must buy someone with the Aarons money. Get the right player and Norwich will be in the promotion mix this season.

[BigFish 1,988]

Sadly Kenny has always been a bit of a target amongst a certain section of the fans. No real reasoning with them though. Even though he has been a regular under three managers and our form fell off a cliff last season when he was out. The same goes with the CDM need, which has become received wisdom amongst a similar group and is an example of the stupidity of crowds. The excellent tactical analysis we see in the PinkUn and on Twitter shows that although the base formation is 442, we seldom play that way and quickly transition to different formation. The full backs are now more attacking players and we concentrate on wide positions. Worked excellently on Saturday and will probably for the rest of the season. There is simply no place for a shielding CDM in this structure without, as was suggested above tongue in cheek above, playing 12 players. So instead, after a really good start to the season, we get posters suggesting we through away pre-season, rip it up and try something else. I am convinced if we had played a CDM on Saturday we would have lost. It is almost as if they want Smith back.

[Jim Smith 2,349]

I think Kenny has generally done quite well in the deeper role and he’s definitely capable of playing it in most games at the level. But I do still feel the lack of a genuine defensive midfielder for certain games will cost us, especially if Wagner is not going to be flexible and play the extra midfielder in those games.

Kenny has always been a bit too easy to byepass when teams have aggressive runners from midfield. I don’t know why, he just does not quite have the instinct to shield the defence that a true CDM has. This remains a blind spot in most Webber assembled squads. The only time we’ve successfully covered the position was Skipp who got us out of jail numerous times that season with recovery or last ditch tackles.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Jim Smith

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Sadly Kenny has always been a bit of a target amongst a certain section of the fans. No real reasoning with them though. Even though he has been a regular under three managers and our form fell off a cliff last season when he was out. The same goes with the CDM need, which has become received wisdom amongst a similar group and is an example of the stupidity of crowds. The excellent tactical analysis we see in the PinkUn and on Twitter shows that although the base formation is 442, we seldom play that way and quickly transition to different formation. The full backs are now more attacking players and we concentrate on wide positions. Worked excellently on Saturday and will probably for the rest of the season. There is simply no place for a shielding CDM in this structure without, as was suggested above tongue in cheek above, playing 12 players. So instead, after a really good start to the season, we get posters suggesting we through away pre-season, rip it up and try something else. I am convinced if we had played a CDM on Saturday we would have lost. It is almost as if they want Smith back.

Well there is a place

..somebody who plays where McLean is but is better at defending

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

I think Kenny's doing as good a job there as he can, which is the problem. We need someone better there, not necessarily a hardcore Tettey-like CDM but another central midfielder who's defensively minded, can intercept the ball and play comfortably and safely through the lines.

[The Bristol Nest 518]

2 games in with points on the board and the scapegoating begins. Kenny is one of our best players. Get over it.