First definitive ground expansion confirmation?

[Fen Canary 871]

19 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

As usual you've made some good points but I think the club's intention was to make a couple of big sales and hope to stay in the Premier League for at least one year in order to fund expansion. In hindsight that was fanciful and the money spent on players leading up to both Premier League seasons was wasted. That's poor judgement as regards players rather than a financial issue. We almost certainly overspent on wages but presumably that was in an attempt to keep and attract players. And frankly, would you want to be Sheffield United or Burnley? I wouldn't pay to watch that. 

But the fact remains that we lost a huge amount of money to Covid. Most clubs in the Premier League have a sugar daddy. We don't and we probably suffered most as a result. 

We did miss an opportunity to borrow cheap but I really don't think we should criticise the board for that. Very few people saw what was coming in terms of interest rates or Covid but if you want someone to blame for the current interest rates look no further than the Government and Truss in particular. 

Even at historically low rates we would have struggled to persuade any financial institution to lend us all the money. We would have needed to sell 90% of the additional seats for 20 years to pay off a loan for the full amount which I would guess will now be well in excess of £60m. At current rates it would be crazy to even think about it. You only need look 40 miles south to see that. 

I often read comments about Brentford and Brighton and how clever they've been. They have obviously bought players much better than us but they have also been beneficiaries of £100m stadiums paid for by their very rich owners. 

I’m sure I read on a BBC write up at the end of the season that Brightons owner has put in close to half a billion between buying the club, building the stadium and funding their rise up the league.

[Michael Starr 521]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m sure I read on a BBC write up at the end of the season that Brightons owner has put in close to half a billion between buying the club, building the stadium and funding their rise up the league.

But how much have they recouped in that time on player sales profit and Premier League money? Pretty sure it's more.

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

On 26/06/2023 at 21:34, Canary Wundaboy said:

Stop making excuses and just get it done!

Oh do **** off. This isn't building a garden shed we're talking about. This is a massive building project, probably as big as any this city will see.

"Stop making excuses" honestly what a nonsense.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Terminally Yellow

[First Wazzock 904]

[The Raptor 1,239]

15 minutes ago, First Wazzock said:

I see they've upgraded Portman road in time for it's championship return. 

[NewNestCarrow 203]

54 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

But how much have they recouped in that time on player sales profit and Premier League money? Pretty sure it's more.

 

Being in the PL does not automatically mean profits.

In five seasons in the top flight BHA have racked up £270m of LOSSES while making a single season's profit of £24m.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

3 hours ago, NewNestCarrow said:

 

Being in the PL does not automatically mean profits.

In five seasons in the top flight BHA have racked up £270m of LOSSES while making a single season's profit of £24m.

 

They also made substantial losses in the Championship trying to get to the Premier League.

[Capt. Pants 4,284]

17 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I don’t know whether it would be a problem for us, but there is much more clear open space at the back of that Liverpool stand than there is with the City Stand.

Exactly what I was thinking. The upper tier would need to come up and out but leaving a service road underneath just so fans can actually get into the place as well as the players, emergency services etc etc. Probably do-able but how on earth they manage construction during a season I really don't know. 

[yellowrider120 791]

29 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Exactly what I was thinking. The upper tier would need to come up and out but leaving a service road underneath just so fans can actually get into the place as well as the players, emergency services etc etc. Probably do-able but how on earth they manage construction during a season I really don't know. 

Exactly why we should at least be considering an alternative venue! The Club seem hell bent on their mindset that Norwich fans would NEVER accept a stadium move from FCR without drawing up feasibility alternatives and involving supporters in such work.  

[The Raptor 1,239]

Moving was looked into in the McNally years. I was deemed not viable. I'm not really sure of the details I just remember a question about it being asked at the AGM. 

Now walking past the old Colman's and May gurney sites. One of them would be big enough surely. And more importantly (for me) within walking distance of the city. Who cares about impractical/expensive they are!

[RobJames 892]

On 26/06/2023 at 21:34, Canary Wundaboy said:

Stop making excuses and just get it done!

What an absurd comment. Where are you going to put the 4000 ST holders from that stand - allow them to sit beside the pitch ?

 The recognition is that after a few months in the Championship we were not selling out. The idea this will be funded by a one off payment is just as nonsensical. It will be on a loan.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

They also made substantial losses in the Championship trying to get to the Premier League.

And they sell all their best players

[Midlands Yellow 4,085]

26 minutes ago, RobJames said:

What an absurd comment. Where are you going to put the 4000 ST holders from that stand - allow them to sit beside the pitch ?

 The recognition is that after a few months in the Championship we were not selling out. The idea this will be funded by a one off payment is just as nonsensical. It will be on a loan.

 

14 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

And they sell all their best players

And they’re playing European football next season. Nice club Brighton and similar size to us. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,864]

2 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

Exactly why we should at least be considering an alternative venue! The Club seem hell bent on their mindset that Norwich fans would NEVER accept a stadium move from FCR without drawing up feasibility alternatives and involving supporters in such work.  

Are there any feasible alternatives? The Broadland Business Park keeps being mentioned but it's too far out of the way for most people's liking, and is there anywhere realistically big enough closer to the city centre?

 

2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Exactly what I was thinking. The upper tier would need to come up and out but leaving a service road underneath just so fans can actually get into the place as well as the players, emergency services etc etc. Probably do-able but how on earth they manage construction during a season I really don't know. 

You could probably use the South Stand for emergency services access and even move the dressing rooms, media areas etc. there if need to be to make better use of space because there's a lot more of it. That would give more breathing space for the City Stand, and fans could quite conceivably enter from the sides.

[Making Plans 940]

20 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

And they sell all their best players

But they are having fun, if you can remember what that is

[Making Plans 940]

I was in Lille 3 weeks ago at the Stade Pierre Mauroy Stadium (aka Decathlon Arena) for a concert.

Built in 2012, it is the home of Lille OSC and what a magificent set up it is.

50,000 spectators, closing roof, all parking underground, shops, 6 hotels, 30+ resturants and great transport links.

 

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,864]

5 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

I was in Lille 3 weeks ago at the Stade Pierre Mauroy Stadium (aka Decathlon Arena) for a concert.

Built in 2012, it is the home of Lille OSC and what a magificent set up it is.

50,000 spectators, closing roof, all parking underground, shops, 6 hotels, 30+ resturants and great transport links.

Sounds great on paper, until you remember that they had to build it in France.

[essex canary 507]

Not sure Brighton is a fair comparison as their owner has put in millions and millions. But then we have Brentford who have built a new stadium and have been modest with wage spend and Luton looking to do the same. We have spent £300 million more on Wages in the last 10 years than Middlesbrough for the benefit of 3 relegated PL seasons compared to their 1. We must have had and potentially still have opportunities to sort it out.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,864]

10 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Not sure Brighton is a fair comparison as their owner has put in millions and millions. But then we have Brentford who have built a new stadium and have been modest with wage spend and Luton looking to do the same. We have spent £300 million more on Wages in the last 10 years than Middlesbrough for the benefit of 3 promotions compared to their 1. We must have had and potentially still have opportunities to sort it out.

Fixed.

[percy varco 201]

Build behind the City stand above Carrow Road to leave access underneath when compleated. Then join to existing City Stand during off season. 
 

[Well b back 3,281]

On 26/06/2023 at 21:57, daly said:

More chance of seeing us in the Champions League and ground expansion 

If we have a similar to last season then 18000 crowds will be norm

I hear that most seasons and the reality is those that do not renew are replaced by people on the waiting list, those that leave the waiting list are replaced by more people than the original number.

[Yobocop 1,105]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

Not sure Brighton is a fair comparison as their owner has put in millions and millions. But then we have Brentford who have built a new stadium and have been modest with wage spend and Luton looking to do the same. We have spent £300 million more on Wages in the last 10 years than Middlesbrough for the benefit of 3 relegated PL seasons compared to their 1. We must have had and potentially still have opportunities to sort it out.

Hang on a cotton picking second

have you really just used that comparison?

Thing is you have to get there to be relegated and Boro only got their once and I bet comparatively we didn’t spend much more, given we had 2 more premier league wage seasons than they did. 

probably the most ridiculous comparison I’ve ever seen on here. 

[Yobocop 1,105]

1 hour ago, percy varco said:

Build behind the City stand above Carrow Road to leave access underneath when compleated. Then join to existing City Stand during off season. 
 

I hope they take the roof off for a season 😂

[Nuff Said 5,178]

8 hours ago, percy varco said:

Build behind the City stand above Carrow Road to leave access underneath when compleated. Then join to existing City Stand during off season. 
 

I can only imagine Zoe will be straight on to the architects and engineers this morning: “What are we paying you ********s hundreds of thousands of pounds for?!? Some guy on the PinkUn has solved the problem for us.”

 

(Feel free to tell me you’re actually an experienced structural engineer 😳)

[Davidlingfield 63]

14 hours ago, The Raptor said:

Moving was looked into in the McNally years. I was deemed not viable. I'm not really sure of the details I just remember a question about it being asked at the AGM. 

Now walking past the old Colman's and May gurney sites. One of them would be big enough surely. And more importantly (for me) within walking distance of the city. Who cares about impractical/expensive they are!

A substantial piece of work was done in 2016 looking at two options:

1. Expanding Carrow Road to a capacity of 35,000.

2. Moving site completely.

No. 2 was discounted pretty quickly for a number of reasons - available site, planning etc but no. 1 had quite a bit of work done on it but the financial return just didn’t work, despite an assumption of a fair chunk of hospitality income.

i can’t think with current interest rates and building costs that the situation has improved, so I would be sceptical about it happening, and if it did, I would be worried about financial impact.

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

11 minutes ago, Davidlingfield said:

A substantial piece of work was done in 2016 looking at two options:

1. Expanding Carrow Road to a capacity of 35,000.

2. Moving site completely.

No. 2 was discounted pretty quickly for a number of reasons - available site, planning etc but no. 1 had quite a bit of work done on it but the financial return just didn’t work, despite an assumption of a fair chunk of hospitality income.

i can’t think with current interest rates and building costs that the situation has improved, so I would be sceptical about it happening, and if it did, I would be worried about financial impact.

Thanks. I think in the past, for example when Bowkett and McNally were talking about this, the costings were always based on the entire amount being funded by outside borrowing. That may not now be the assumption.

[Soldier on 168]

17 minutes ago, Davidlingfield said:

A substantial piece of work was done in 2016 looking at two options:

1. Expanding Carrow Road to a capacity of 35,000.

2. Moving site completely.

No. 2 was discounted pretty quickly for a number of reasons - available site, planning etc but no. 1 had quite a bit of work done on it but the financial return just didn’t work, despite an assumption of a fair chunk of hospitality income.

i can’t think with current interest rates and building costs that the situation has improved, so I would be sceptical about it happening, and if it did, I would be worried about financial impact.

Isn’t this precisely the type of area Attanassio could help by offering low interest borrowing ?

[Midlands Yellow 4,085]

5 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Isn’t this precisely the type of area Attanassio could help by offering low interest borrowing ?

Agreed, this project will get up and running with firm plans once Attanassio becomes the majority shareholder.

 

[Davidlingfield 63]

12 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Isn’t this precisely the type of area Attanassio could help by offering low interest borrowing ?

Hopefully, but not quite sure why he would offer low interest borrowing when he needs a return too?

[Darth Vadis 158]

12 minutes ago, Davidlingfield said:

Hopefully, but not quite sure why he would offer low interest borrowing when he needs a return too?

Could you argue part of his return would be being owner/part-owner of a club with increased value because of stadium development?