Webber

[littleyellowbirdie 2,588]

We were invincible a couple of games back after four goals scored two games in a row.

We've had a fundamental issue that we just haven't had the money to get the players need for Premier League survival. Webber has set us on the path to sort that.

So this season doesn't really matter if we don't get promoted. Next season will be the proof of the pudding. Chill the f**k out.

[sgncfc 1,253]

However much we have spent, It's peanuts compared to what we needed to. Bournemouth have just spent £50m in the January window, yet the chances are they are coming down. Even Southampton have spent £30m, and they have no chance of staying up. Don't even get started on Forest. West Ham have a squad valued at well over £400m. 

The players you can buy for £10m are not going to keep you in the EPL, and now it looks like they're not going to get you out of the Champs either. Burnley are a special case, where the stars have aligned, much like they did for us two years ago. But they aren't pretty. Sheff Utd started their process in the middle of last season and have gelled into an effective team. But they aren't pretty.

What we have is a squad which should be competing for the top 6 according to results. But everyone wants sweet football as well, because that's what we had. No other team in this league plays that way. No one. Every team is functional and efficient.

No other team in the Champs has hugely creative players or pacey, exciting players. They don't fit the modern way. It's all about workrate, stats, Xg etc. Management and coaching makes the difference at this level - getting a team ethic, momentum, support etc. We don't have that anymore. I think the "supporters" are indeed partly to blame. I guarantee that if we make a mistake on Tuesday which leads to a Hull goal, the crowd will boo and start to turn. That isn't support.

Why would Attanasio put his money into a club with supporters who are unlikely to appreciate him?

[Branston 56]

4 minutes ago, ridgeman said:

The point is that Gibsons first  season was in the Championship, Burnley signed him from Middlesboro and found out he is not Premiership class we signed him from Burnley and after his first season found out the same.

Take away Skipp and Emi . Everybody suffered . Gibbo was premiership class with Middlesboro and as a result was part of the England World Cup qualifiers squad . 

We should have broken the bank to keep Emi and Skipp . Everything went to hell after that .

[NFN FC 1,123]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

We were invincible a couple of games back after four goals scored two games in a row.

We've had a fundamental issue that we just haven't had the money to get the players need for Premier League survival. Webber has set us on the path to sort that.

So this season doesn't really matter if we don't get promoted. Next season will be the proof of the pudding. Chill the f**k out.

I don't think a team can be judged 'invincible' after just two wins in a row. 

Fu¢k the Premier league. 

I agree with the last point of "chill the f**k out". There's always so much pant wetting after a defeat. We were playing against a well organised team , away and we lost by a goal that should've been saved. I don't understand why so many people have this idea that we are expected to spank every team we play. 

[The Bunny 314]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

We were invincible a couple of games back after four goals scored two games in a row.

We've had a fundamental issue that we just haven't had the money to get the players need for Premier League survival. Webber has set us on the path to sort that.

So this season doesn't really matter if we don't get promoted. Next season will be the proof of the pudding. Chill the f**k out.

Back when we got relegated there were a lot of people assuming we'd walk the championship again and go straight back up. I pointed out at the time to anyone who would listen that we didn't have the squad to do that any more. The drop in quality is plain for anyone to see. 

I don't know why anyone would assume we're going to go up next season, given the direction of travel. The only technically capable player on the pitch is leaving in the summer and we're not going to replace him with anything like the same level of quality. Adam Idah just signed a 5 year contract. The writing is on the wall...

Unless there is a root and branch clearout, not only of the dross in the playing squad but the people responsible for signing them, we're destined for championship mediocrity at best for the next few years, and maybe worse. 

[ridgeman 135]

Webber has had his time here, for all those applauding his improvements to the training ground and Soccerbot there is no improvement in the quality of football on the pitch in fact quite the reverse. His method of buying to resell would be OK if we bought to strenghten the  team (along the lines of Lambert who bought players to fill positions) but at the moment that team looks so disjointed, midfield is non creative, there is no width for attacking, the defence is all over the place, Aarons for all his attacking seems unable to cross a ball into the box.

There are teams in this league who have far less money than us but the players give so much more.

[nutty nigel 7,599]

So Dean Smith wasn't the problem after all...

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,588]

2 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Back when we got relegated there were a lot of people assuming we'd walk the championship again and go straight back up. I pointed out at the time to anyone who would listen that we didn't have the squad to do that any more. The drop in quality is plain for anyone to see. 

I don't know why anyone would assume we're going to go up next season, given the direction of travel. The only technically capable player on the pitch is leaving in the summer and we're not going to replace him with anything like the same level of quality. Adam Idah just signed a 5 year contract. The writing is on the wall...

Unless there is a root and branch clearout, not only of the dross in the playing squad but the people responsible for signing them, we're destined for championship mediocrity at best for the next few years, and maybe worse. 

It's 100% a money game now. We have a guy who's up to front the money.

And to be honest, look at the Premier League. It's it really that exciting?

Stop thinking like accountants.

[The Bunny 314]

2 minutes ago, Branston said:

Take away Skipp and Emi . Everybody suffered . Gibbo was premiership class with Middlesboro and as a result was part of the England World Cup qualifiers squad . 

We should have broken the bank to keep Emi and Skipp . Everything went to hell after that .

That's what happens when you have a sporting director who doesn't realize the value of his own players. I think he made statements to the press at the time that anyone was replaceable. Turns out that wasn't the case. We still haven't replaced those players with anything like the same quality, but we've spent the Emi money multiple times over since then. 

To the people thinking this is all about our tin pot owners not investing, I think you're wide of the mark. We have spent money, but, unfortunately, the recruitment team "pissed it up the wall" on players who haven't improved the squad at all. 

[Channon’s Windmill 330]

13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So Dean Smith wasn't the problem after all...

 

No he wasn’t THE problem, he was just one of a number of problems, we are still left with so many that are all mentioned at various points throughout this thread.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 409]

1 hour ago, Kingston Yellow said:

You’re making our point for us. Moron. Conflict of interests. They’re both failing but no one to hold them to account.0

Do you always debate like a child? 

[Hucks6 169]

Perhaps with a bit of luck when the Americans get hold of city they will sack him because Delia hasn’t got the B—-s to do it

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

1 minute ago, Hucks6 said:

Perhaps with a bit of luck when the Americans get hold of city they will sack him because Delia hasn’t got the B—-s to do it

Not straight away he won't but he won't sit back and watch his investment go down the toilet either.

The timing is pretty good actually - keep everyone on their toes and get rid of all the slackers and underperformers.

 

[Branston Pickle 3,681]

39 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So Dean Smith wasn't the problem after all...

 

There’s a shock…..

[mannings bandy legs 394]

45 minutes ago, Branston said:

Take away Skipp and Emi . Everybody suffered . Gibbo was premiership class with Middlesboro and as a result was part of the England World Cup qualifiers squad . 

We should have broken the bank to keep Emi and Skipp . Everything went to hell after that .

....and we're not coming back!!!!@

[nutty nigel 7,599]

24 minutes ago, Channon’s Windmill said:

No he wasn’t THE problem, he was just one of a number of problems, we are still left with so many that are all mentioned at various points throughout this thread.

Just about every player, the execs, the owners, the potential new owners and Wagner?

[Monty13 2,247]

42 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

However much we have spent, It's peanuts compared to what we needed to. Bournemouth have just spent £50m in the January window, yet the chances are they are coming down. Even Southampton have spent £30m, and they have no chance of staying up. Don't even get started on Forest. West Ham have a squad valued at well over £400m. 

The players you can buy for £10m are not going to keep you in the EPL, and now it looks like they're not going to get you out of the Champs either. Burnley are a special case, where the stars have aligned, much like they did for us two years ago. But they aren't pretty. Sheff Utd started their process in the middle of last season and have gelled into an effective team. But they aren't pretty.

What we have is a squad which should be competing for the top 6 according to results. But everyone wants sweet football as well, because that's what we had. No other team in this league plays that way. No one. Every team is functional and efficient.

No other team in the Champs has hugely creative players or pacey, exciting players. They don't fit the modern way. It's all about workrate, stats, Xg etc. Management and coaching makes the difference at this level - getting a team ethic, momentum, support etc. We don't have that anymore. I think the "supporters" are indeed partly to blame. I guarantee that if we make a mistake on Tuesday which leads to a Hull goal, the crowd will boo and start to turn. That isn't support.

Why would Attanasio put his money into a club with supporters who are unlikely to appreciate him?

Huge amount of unfortunate truth in what you’ve said. The money is a reality that can’t be ignored anymore and why it’s good to see the Attanasio takeover edging closer. I think Michael and Delia have been great stewards, but the last few years have proved we will always struggle to realistically compete without a benefactor and that doesn’t look like ever changing. Football in this country is too far gone for a true financial fair play system to ever be implemented.

I’d say you’re also right we should still have enough to be competing in the top 6 this season though, the club have said top 2 which is part of the problem in terms of supporter’s expectation.

We were spoiled under Farke, and there’s definitely a hangover of that still in the Carrow Road crowd IMO. You’re right most successful teams are way more pragmatic than they are attractive.

The other issue with finances though is when your finances are extremely limited how you spend them comes under increased scrutiny. I can’t believe anyone thinks we have spent the spoils of the last few years wisely when it comes to the playing squad. Other clubs finances and spending aren’t really relevant to that point.

[Mengo 825]

2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

The man is bullet proof unfortunately.

Unfortunately  it's  worse than that 😕. I would say he is 💣 bomb proof.

[hogesar 9,730]

If we are honest, Webber started his time with us having probably the best transfer record this club has ever seen. That first promotion with the money we spent (having sold so many previously 'important' players in the lead up) is probably still slightly underestimated by our fanbase, but it was miraculous on football terms.

So part of the problem is its impossible to live up to that consistently at any level..

Then at Prem level throw in the fact that at a financial level we are at a disadvantage to at least 17 of the 20 clubs.

Now we are seeing a transfer record pretty similar to most other clubs. Some good, some bad. Sara and Nunez look good options to me but they've not adapted quick enough to be top players at this level yet.

Conversely I really watch someone like Tzolis and have absolutely no idea what our scouting department have watched. He doesn't have anything resembling attributes required for English football. The RvW of the Webber era.

[Chelm Canary 404]

Can we assume we won't be seeing much more of Tzolis or is he injured?

 

[nutty nigel 7,599]

We won't decide Webber's future. The way things are looking the decision will be made on another continent. Then if he's bomb proof that will be where the blame will have to lie.

I think he's safe for now. And he should be if Wagner's the future.

[Newtopia 519]

Deano was a problem, he did not seem to have a plan, today was worrying, as we had loads of the ball and did very little with it.  I am sure that was not the intended plan.  We seemed to be too slow and too ponderous when we attacked, genuinely we would have looked more like scoring if we played brexit football with Idah or Sargent up front. 
A least we have a big gap before our next game to work on the patterns of play.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Newtopia

[Unthink road 132]

Webber has done a great job. But everyone has their day. For me, thank you Stuart. New ideas needed. Today amongst the crowd Webber should go. Delia  in question. 

[Chelm Canary 404]

9 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

A least we have a big gap before our next game to work on the patterns of

3 days isn't that big of a gap. It's pretty tight. 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If we are honest, Webber started his time with us having probably the best transfer record this club has ever seen. That first promotion with the money we spent (having sold so many previously 'important' players in the lead up) is probably still slightly underestimated by our fanbase, but it was miraculous on football terms.

So part of the problem is its impossible to live up to that consistently at any level..

Then at Prem level throw in the fact that at a financial level we are at a disadvantage to at least 17 of the 20 clubs.

Now we are seeing a transfer record pretty similar to most other clubs. Some good, some bad. Sara and Nunez look good options to me but they've not adapted quick enough to be top players at this level yet.

Conversely I really watch someone like Tzolis and have absolutely no idea what our scouting department have watched. He doesn't have anything resembling attributes required for English football. The RvW of the Webber era.

I Agree with your point 

he was so good at the start 

yet so bad in recent seasons 

My view is a vital cog has gone some scout or recruitment person who had the magic touch or contacts has left ,

something has happened someone who finds Emi ,Krul ,Pukki the Germans ( Farke ?) 

is not the same person who has been blowing all this money on Tzolis , Rashica 

it is not about the Money it is the Recruitment 

it has been proved by Webber himself you can pick up good players cheap or free 

i think that is Webber excels at Lower price players the higher priced players are no better than the cheap ones 

[Channon’s Windmill 330]

53 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Just about every player, the execs, the owners, the potential new owners and Wagner?

No for me Wagner and the potential new owners  have a totally clean slate, the first three damn right, pretty much taken us as far as they can, all are regressive, big brush needed for a clean sweep.

[Newtopia 519]

10 minutes ago, Chelm Canary said:

3 days isn't that big of a gap. It's pretty tight. 

I was being sarcastic - the other option was to flap my arms in the air and shout we are all doomed.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

2 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

I Agree with your point 

he was so good at the start 

yet so bad in recent seasons 

My view is a vital cog has gone some scout or recruitment person who had the magic touch or contacts has left ,

something has happened someone who finds Emi ,Krul ,Pukki the Germans ( Farke ?) 

is not the same person who has been blowing all this money on Tzolis , Rashica 

it is not about the Money it is the Recruitment 

it has been proved by Webber himself you can pick up good players cheap or free 

i think that is Webber excels at Lower price players the higher priced players are no better than the cheap ones 

I'm not sure that Attanasio knows any better because his knowledge of 'soccer' has been fed to him by Webber. But if I were him and likely to be investing millions/tens of millions into the playing side, I'd be a bit nervous handing that over to Webber tbh. I realise the scouting/recruitment team are also to blame but at this point in time I'm really struggling to be positive about any of our current acquisitions.

[WD40 720]

2 hours ago, All the Germans said:

Emi Buendia - signed 8th June 2018, that's less than 5 years ago. You may want to re-consider your time frame or come back in the Summer. 

There you go then, coming on 5 years. It was that window the last time anyone decent was signed permanently. 

[Kingston Yellow 222]

1 hour ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

Do you always debate like a child? 

The irony