The real problem

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

We don’t have a budget for premiership wages. The end. Solve that and we could make a better fist of it. This failure is not on Farke who has proved a shrewd manager on a level playing field. It is on the board and their self funding model and the recruitment of youth this window with an eye to future sales rather than what we actually needed to be competitive- proven grit and strength 

[1902 1,167]

2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

We don’t have a budget for premiership wages. The end. Solve that and we could make a better fist of it. This failure is not on Farke who has proved a shrewd manager on a level playing field. It is on the board and their self funding model and the recruitment of youth this window with an eye to future sales rather than what we actually needed to be competitive- proven grit and strength 

You have said this on 48 threads already. It's a valid opinion, but it's a little dull to read the same moan repeated over and over.

Edited September 22, 2021 by 1902

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

Fair enough but I am frustrated- it’s also very dull having to keep seeing the poor/embarrassing un competitive football served up whenever we are promoted 

[Uncle Fred 526]

It is repeated but nothing is ever done about it 

[Petriix 3,219]

You're right. They should have just spent £100m of money they don't have to pay £80k per week to 5 players on 5 year contracts. I can't possibly see how that could go wrong.

[ricardo 8,034]

3 minutes ago, Petriix said:

You're right. They should have just spent £100m of money they don't have to pay £80k per week to 5 players on 5 year contracts. I can't possibly see how that could go wrong.

Perhaps we should all write begging letters.

[Uncle Fred 526]

A stinking rich Chinese owner would solve the problem, it’s not rocket science 

[The Raptor 1,573]

A stinking rich owner solves nothing. Is financial fair play not still a thing?

In the last 35 years or so I've been following football only a handfull have been successful long term. Chelsea, man city and perhaps Leicester. That's it. So many others have ended in failure. What good has it done Derby? Wigan? Bolton? Sunderland? Blackburn. A couple won stuff yeah but then disappeared back into the void. Liverpool spent over a billion on players let alone wages to have the same number of premier League titles as Leicester and Blackburn. 

The finances of the league are a joke. It's pretty much a cartel. Clubs are expected to spend big to overpay average players. Some who prove time and time again they can't cut it in the premier League but move from promote club to promoted club.  And if they don't the media turn against them as it doesn't keep the myth of the premier League alive. The same with the 'managerial merry go round', deadline day hype etc

We have the 5th smallest stadium in the league. Yes we fill it but with a high percentage of season ticket holders I'd say our gate receipts are lower than 5th. Commercial income too. Geographically we're at a disadvantage. We're pretty much doomed.

 

 

[Google Bot 3,934]

12 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It is on the board and their self funding model and the recruitment of youth this window with an eye to future sales rather than what we actually needed to be competitive- proven grit and strength 

It's how a club should be run.  (IMO) You should be raging at the state of football to the FA and Premier League than a club doing it the correct way.  We'd be finished as a club if we overspent.  Can't even get VAR decisions, so would never count on someone to come rescue us if the board broke away from a self funded model and went for broke.

[vos 176]

I believe the problem is that Farke's strength is bringing on academy players and Webber's ability to find European players at reasonable prices. This system works very well in the Championship but does not produce the quality needed in the Premiership. It is a fact that at the highest level football is now dominated by young very fit,  black powerful athletic players. Rather interestingly we do not possess any of these. Before anyone tells me that's not racist but a simple fact of life. I am sure nobody wants a dodgy overseas owner and we will have to continue to be a yoyo Club. So it looks like another painful season but should be enjoyable when we return to the Championship. OTBC

[Tumbleweed 106]

But good lineups, tactics, formations, marking, pressing, commitment, positional nous, passing and substitutions are all free. We seem to have issues with all of that lot. Maybe if we fixed the free basic stuff we would have a better chance.......

[Well b back 3,605]

You are like the delta variant, whereas the majority of threads are started by yourself after we hadn’t heard from you last season. You have taken over from Cambridge who can no longer compete.

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

There were tried and tested premiership players available in the summer for no fee which we could of gotten. Andros Townsend I’m sure if we paid him 40k a week that’s 2mil a year we could of saved from needing to spend 9-11 on Rashica or Tzolis. No matter how good they maybe in the future. Plenty of people were hating on him on here before when we were linked but he looks far and away better for Everton than anything we have. Demarai Grey who they also signed they only spent 1.5million on which makes our outlay on wingers look silly. 
 

Josh King, Gary Cahill also two names proven at this level we should of been trying to attract. With the lack of need of a transfer fee we could pay them more for sure 

[Google Bot 3,934]

2 minutes ago, vos said:

It is a fact that at the highest level football is now dominated by young very fit,  black powerful athletic players. Rather interestingly we do not possess any of these.

'Dominated'??  

Or, Do you mean specifically teams that are around us?  i.e. when you see players like Sarr at Watford who's supremely athletic. 

Don't know if it's determined by skin colour really, but if that's an example then yes he's a really good player that I'd love here for sure! 👍

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

30 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

'Dominated'??  

Or, Do you mean specifically teams that are around us?  i.e. when you see players like Sarr at Watford who's supremely athletic. 

Don't know if it's determined by skin colour really, but if that's an example then yes he's a really good player that I'd love here for sure! 👍

I think the only thing this proves is that the FA Premier League is institutionally racist.........................................................

(note: not being serious).

[robert choice 24]

Unfortunately 'self funding' and 'Premier League' will never belong in the same sentence.

 

Apart from this one.

[Badger 2,745]

15 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

A stinking rich Chinese owner would solve the problem, it’s not rocket science 

Like Reading, for example?

Thought to be worth £700 million but can't even get promoted from the Championship, let alone sustain a place in the premier league.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/21/reading-in-line-for-points-deduction-over-breach-of-efl-financial-rules

[Uncle Fred 526]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Like Reading, for example?

Thought to be worth £700 million but can't even get promoted from the Championship, let alone sustain a place in the premier league.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/21/reading-in-line-for-points-deduction-over-breach-of-efl-financial-rules

£700 million isn’t stinking rich I am talking many multiple billions 

[Badger 2,745]

30 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

£700 million isn’t stinking rich I am talking many multiple billions 

Like the Barnsley owner?

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,261]

15 hours ago, vos said:

I believe the problem is that Farke's strength is bringing on academy players and Webber's ability to find European players at reasonable prices. This system works very well in the Championship but does not produce the quality needed in the Premiership. It is a fact that at the highest level football is now dominated by young very fit,  black powerful athletic players. Rather interestingly we do not possess any of these. Before anyone tells me that's not racist but a simple fact of life. I am sure nobody wants a dodgy overseas owner and we will have to continue to be a yoyo Club. So it looks like another painful season but should be enjoyable when we return to the Championship. OTBC

I don't think it has anything to do with the race of the players though and I wouldn't say the league is dominated by any particular ethnicity but it is dominated by fast powerful players, Burnley for example don't have many in that description but they're a very physical, athletic team and you can be sure they'll be too physical for us. The problem is we seem to ignore physicality and athleticism when we sign players so we end up with a team that's too slow, too small and too weak and can easily be defeated by two dimensional simplistic tactics like high crosses and running at us at pace on the counter. That's what's so frustrating, it's that the goals we concede look so simple and it's like the opposition hasn't even got to work hard to break us down. Then when we try to play though teams we just get out paced and crowded out and it makes us look a really poor passing side. 

 

You look at the other CB's in this league, they're all giants, all of ours are 6ft to 6ft 2 with the exception of Zimmermann and our full backs are really small as well. It's no wonder we concede the types of goals we do. There has got to be a change of approach after this season.

 

 

[Commonsense 802]

16 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

A stinking rich Chinese owner would solve the problem, it’s not rocket science 

At least until they get bored, realise they’ve broken rules, get fed up with a whinging fan base on here or generally just feel like fcuking off. You’d sell your granny to a pimp for 50p

[Uncle Fred 526]

9 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

At least until they get bored, realise they’ve broken rules, get fed up with a whinging fan base on here or generally just feel like fcuking off. You’d sell your granny to a pimp for 50p

It is the less risk strategy compared to owners with out a pot to p1SS in 

[yellowrider120 917]

42 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I don't think it has anything to do with the race of the players though and I wouldn't say the league is dominated by any particular ethnicity but it is dominated by fast powerful players, Burnley for example don't have many in that description but they're a very physical, athletic team and you can be sure they'll be too physical for us. The problem is we seem to ignore physicality and athleticism when we sign players so we end up with a team that's too slow, too small and too weak and can easily be defeated by two dimensional simplistic tactics like high crosses and running at us at pace on the counter. That's what's so frustrating, it's that the goals we concede look so simple and it's like the opposition hasn't even got to work hard to break us down. Then when we try to play though teams we just get out paced and crowded out and it makes us look a really poor passing side. 

 

You look at the other CB's in this league, they're all giants, all of ours are 6ft to 6ft 2 with the exception of Zimmermann and our full backs are really small as well. It's no wonder we concede the types of goals we do. There has got to be a change of approach after this season.

 

 

Totally agree. This was the main reason we got relegated before yet (incredibly) the lesson has NOT been learned despite us being told on many occasions that it had been! Nothing to do with needing 'billionaire' owners but everything to do with the correct recruitment and the manager's obsession with possession stats.   

[duke63 739]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

£700 million isn’t stinking rich I am talking many multiple billions 

I think you might find the Chinese Government have stopped allowing that sort of money laundering.

[Norfolk Mustard 106]

£700m *isn't* stinking rich? Wow, some people are hard to please! If any of us were to win £111m on this friday's Euromillions there's little point in sending any of it NCFC's way then?

[OTBC06 55]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

£700 million isn’t stinking rich I am talking many multiple billions 

Bloody hell, I wish I wasn't that stinking rich!!

[Big Vince 423]

On 22/09/2021 at 08:51, Dean Coneys boots said:

We don’t have a budget for premiership wages. The end. Solve that and we could make a better fist of it. This failure is not on Farke who has proved a shrewd manager on a level playing field. It is on the board and their self funding model and the recruitment of youth this window with an eye to future sales rather than what we actually needed to be competitive- proven grit and strength 

Bowkett and McNasty made a better fist of the self-funding model by going for more experienced players like Snodgrass, Pilkington, Johnson, Howson, Tettey and of course Grant Holt. It was at least a platform for a three year stay in the EPL. Under Webber, the focus has shifted to recruiting younger players and putting money into the academy. It is all about the future and not the here and now. Will we ever address the here and now under Webber, or will it always be about the future? Are we just a business model and a feeder club and nothing much else? The limpest of limp exits from the cup on Tuesday shows that we have no ambition beyond top six in the Championship. At least under Chase and Stringer there was real desire to do something in league and cup.

[hogesar 10,766]

2 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Bowkett and McNasty made a better fist of the self-funding model by going for more experienced players like Snodgrass, Pilkington, Johnson, Howson, Tettey and of course Grant Holt. It was at least a platform for a three year stay in the EPL. Under Webber, the focus has shifted to recruiting younger players and putting money into the academy. It is all about the future and not the here and now. Will we ever address the here and now under Webber, or will it always be about the future? Are we just a business model and a feeder club and nothing much else? The limpest of limp exits from the cup on Tuesday shows that we have no ambition beyond top six in the Championship. At least under Chase and Stringer there was real desire to do something in league and cup.

Remind me how much Premier League experience these players had before joining us?

[Big Vince 423]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Remind me how much Premier League experience these players had before joining us?

They had experience. I purposely didn't say EPL experience. The transfer policy at the time was to pick the best low hanging fruit from the lower leagues - as Bowkett described it. That was the next best thing if Delia wasn't going to stump up for EPL wages. I am saying that Bowkett and McNasty worked within the constraints in a different way compared to Webber and Farke.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,261]

That Lambert team would do just as poorly as this team if not worse. The quality of this league is now much higher, there's no one in this league including us who were as poor as Wigan, Bolton, Sunderland, Blackburn, Wolves etc were in that season  and the strategy we took in terms of transfers that summer can't work anymore. There aren't players of the quality of Bennett and Pilkington in L1 anymore, certainly not for 1-3m anyway and you're looking at 10-15m+ for good Championship players now. Steve Morrison would probably cost about 10m in today's market so the 2011 era is pretty irrelevant to our current situation because it's an approach we couldn't have repeated