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  1. Except all the examples of governments doing exactly that. From ration cards, to free schools, to the abolition of sedition laws. There are hundreds of examples of government's of all political persuasions giving up powers. Can we all stop saying "it's never happened in history" when it categorically and demonstratably has.
  2. Sorry to be late back to this, but an apple had gone through literally thousands of years of selective breeding by humans. Its natural ancestors look, and taste, nothing like it. It's man made. To be fair, locusts are a good example of a non domesticated animal that is natural, as long as you don't cook it, but if pour standard for man made being an issue is that we could be eating edible raw locusts then I'm not sure we are operating in the realms of reality anymore.
  3. "Ergo marriage is a positive thing for society and ought to be encouraged." If this proves anything at all, it simply proves that kids brought up in stable 2 patent households do better than those who live in other situations, as you stated. The reasons for this could be thousandfold, from the ability of the parents to compromise, therefore being more empathetic, to the financial advantages that come from having two incomes, to children from one parent families facing stigma, to kids with single parents being more likely to to have a blue painted room than a green one, and this effects educational outcomes. None of the reasons I have listed before are anymore based on fact than your assertion that marriage is the reason for better outcomes.
  4. Its not experimental and man made is a loaded phrase that includes every single food we eat.
  5. I never argued for that. Teemu said that it had never been mandatory to have a vaccine in the UK, I said that was incorrect. Then I was challenged on the details. Thats about it.
  6. And imprisoned of they couldn't afford it. Still mandatory, and far more draconian than you can't go to a football match without a jab. Not that I'm arguing for victorian justice, just that there is a clear precedent which was what I was originally talking about.
  7. True, but novel viruses have wiped out close to an entire population, we could ask the population of pre Colombian hisponiola if the measles and smallpox hadn't got them first. Preserving life is a fairly decent policy aim that perhaps trumps nightclubs and carrow road. I'm not sure 'death is good' is a strong position to take in this one.
  8. In the 1853 act, you were fined for failure to vaccinate your child.
  9. I was reacting to your argument that the fact that speeding had always been illegal since the invention of the car meant that this had a legitimacy that compulsory vaccination lacked. Incidentally the speeding law was also passed before the most significant extension of suffrage. The last point ignores those who can't be vaccinated or those who are but who do not develop a significant enough response.
  10. True, though it does prove that we don't have some ancient right to reject vaccination.
  11. That's not true, the smallpox vaccine was mandatory. Incidentally it was made mandatory 40 years before cars were invented.
  12. Im genuinely sorry for your mate, also sorry for all those who cannot get jabbed who cant do any of those things until enough people are vaccinated. If he has a medical reason he should be exempt but that's something that needs to be discussed with a GP.
  13. That's a terrible argument, unless you can define why vaccinations for football matches are worse that many of the other restrictions we have currently. Saying what's next based on a hypothetical situation of your own making just proves you can envisage worse, it has no bearing on the situation now or even any influence on the future. Why is this policy more concerning than say the smoking ban in pubs? Seatbelts in cars? Health and Safety regulations on who can serve food under what conditions? All of which sacrifice liberty for public safety. Unless you can explain that, I'm not going to feel particularly concerned that I have been brainwashed into giving up the future of my children and grandchildren.
  14. Thats rubbish, show is your papers is the law to drive, to get a job, to get housing, to get health care if there is a suspicion you can't use the NHS, even to enter nightclubs and pubs if you have a young face. We have always had companies enforce the law because otherwise they have been threatened with sanctions. Every pub you have ever been in has done that. Your ISP does that. In many ways this is less draconian than many other state measures, because we all have two optons.
  15. I think these walls and barriers are called laws usually and yes they do tend to have a role in society functioning.
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