breaking - binners sold

[Crabbycanary3 994]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

The sensible method would be to try and follow a Brentford or (dare I say it) Norwich type model.

Focus on youth development and clever scouting, meaning even if you don't go up you can make profits from play sales. However if that was easy everyone would be doing it.

I'd actually be concerned for you if they went 'all in so to speak as if it doesn't work quickly they could just cut their losses and run.

^^^^This^^^^^

There is a time limit with this sort of investment. It is not a plaything. They need to make money, and soon. The clock is ticking already, and 1p5wich are waayyyy behind the start line. They need to start somewhere and my own Binner friend said this is as low as it gets, so it's only onward and upward from here! (Fingers tightly crossed behind his back)

 

I am afraid that Chris has been suckered in somewhat to the romantic global adulation and appreciation of his Club. It has been gradually seeping away for a few decades, and as much as some of us know who Bobby Robson was (RIP Sir), and especially his achievements with 1p5wich, there is a huge swathe of modern (aged 30 and under) football fans who do not know of him, and with each season they are not in the Prem (or even top end of the Championship) they are seen as irrelevant as the teams around them. Teams like Nottm Forest/Sunderland/Portsmouth/Derby/Blackburn/Preston/Sheff Wed and Huddersfield (who are all above 1p5wich in the pyramid atm) have more illustrious history than our neighbours, but how many of them get recognition these days? This takeover is today's headlines but if a sustained period of achievement and building is not achieved (and this will take time that the Company may not wait for) , then anyone who wants to reflect on their history, will be limited to a very small period of the footballing spectrum, and this will always be considered a one off or a (slightly unfair) flash in the pan, but that is the reality of it, to the rest of us (not just Norwich fans)

[TIL 1010 4,746]

1 hour ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Gutted, I'm clearly not on the block list 😂

Your time will come as i think the second one blocked is either me or wcorkcanary. I had a sleepless night over it.

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 527]

Here's the thing though: like some Tech firms ITFC currently has a negative value - the new owners have bought the debt of a business which currently loses £ millions a year and has very few assets. They have paid for a perceived "goodwill". If they wanted to buy a "slumbering giant" I don't think ITFC was the best choice.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

However if that was easy everyone would be doing it.

The model is highly effective and likely to be successful in the long run - but this does not mean that it is easy nor that everybody will do it. The problem is that most owners, like fans, want results quickly: established championship clubs are not excited by a strategy that could see promotion in 5 or 10 years time. Similarly, owners (the investor type) don't generally invest in football clubs in the hope that they will begin to see returns in a decade (although there are exceptions.)

It's a bit like gaining qualifications to increase your income. There is a clear correlation between the two, but it takes a long time and is very hard work, without even the absolute certainty of success. Losing weight is, perhaps, a better example: most people know what they have to do, but speaking personally, its very hard to put into place! 😃

[Hairy Canary 704]

The first thing they need to address is the regular year on year loss making. Presumably the idea is to invest some short term cash in order to get the club to the championship (Premiership is just a pipe dream at this stage) and then sell to recoup that outlay. The last thing they need is for the money they do have to be used instead to simply balance the books.

So how is that regular loss making going to be stopped? There are a lot of player contracts coming to an end very soon so there is a change to get rid of dead wood and high earners and bring in fresh faces and hungry young players. Also there is mutterings about skills and experience in increasing revenue - I'm sure the Burnley takeover people mentioned being able to do the same. As has been said before, it this was so easy to do then everyone would be at it. Never the less L1 is a pond full of small fish so competition is not high.

It's clearly a strategy that involves a lot of change, new manager, young players and better PR and marketing, to see if that generates enough imputus to get out of L1. If that doesn't happen, in say two more years, then surely it will require reverting to a cloth cutting exercise where the club has to become self funding with L1 income.

Going to be interesting and risky but gives them more to hold on to than Evans slow painful death.   

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

I think the idea Ipswich have any great global reputation these days makes me chuckle a bit to be honest.

For anyone aged 35 or under, Ipswich are not that different to Preston or Bristol City- a championship mainstay who haven't threatened the top flight in years.

While hardly Phileas Fogg, I spent a number of years living abroad and not once did I hear any mention of Ipswich from any football fans. The idea that they have any kind of international reputation is absolutely hilarious.

[vos 155]

13 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I guess they invest some if the money in high risk areas VOS.

But what are the odds of the binners becoming profitable anytime soon?

Must be like backing the outsider in the Grand National.

Nutty. I will stick to investing a fiver in your Supporters Club raffle. Much bigger chance of making a profit.

[Greavsy 2,415]

2 hours ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Wow, that's a record, you've been here 5 mins and already worked Bill out.

Don't take it personally, every forum has one and he's ours.

We all love him really 😉

Speak for yourself, in the final sentence RTtB. ☺ 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

3 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Your time will come as i think the second one blocked is either me or wcorkcanary. I had a sleepless night over it.

Tossing  all night then Tillo? You know you've hit Bilious where it hurts if he blocks you,  cos if he thinks there's a scintilla of a chance he can browbeat someone  (after all he's  always right dontcha know)..... there's no way he'd block them. 

He really didn't like his modus operandi  being outed.  Not one bit. Poor lonely Bilious. 👍😇😉

[TIL 1010 4,746]

3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Tossing  all night then Tillo? You know you've hit Bilious where it hurts if he blocks you,  cos if he thinks there's a scintilla of a chance he can browbeat someone  (after all he's  always right dontcha know)..... there's no way he'd block them. 

He really didn't like his modus operandi  being outed.  Not one bit. Poor lonely Bilious. 👍😇😉

Well if he blocks all those he has accused of being a liar and having multiple accounts he is going to be very lonely on here indeed.

I will miss him calling me out as Plod and Peppa Pig. 😂

Edited April 8, 2021 by TIL 1010

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Well if he blocks all those he has accused of being a liar and having multiple accounts he is going to be very lonely on here indeed.

Except for his own multiple accounts of course. They can keep him company. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

3 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Well if he blocks all those he has accused of being a liar and having multiple accounts he is going to be very lonely on here indeed.

Tbf that may only be 3people... each with several accounts of course.

[hogesar 9,673]

9 hours ago, chrismakin said:

Town fan here, I come in peace.

 

Just to help with some 'thoughts'

The Arizona Pension 'pot' comes in at around  £440 Billion, (Or similar, it varies in different reports)   this obviously won't the the figure available,  but what ever the investment -  it's a small part of the pension funds.  I think apart from Prem being the overall target, it will be academy -  potentially cat 1 and rumours of moving it closer to London,   Then the opportunity to purchase land around Portman Road, Cardinal Park etc as Brett Johnson has a lot of experience in building sports complexes.   It'll be a long term plan  but for the fans, it will just be nice to see -  hopefully a more structured club and not 1 man trying to be everything and maybe some point again we can have a Derby game, regardless of  result. 

Regarding out debt,  all but £400,000 has effectively been written off. 

Yeah, no way are you getting a Category 1 Academy. From everything that's been leaked regarding your takeover it's more likely the academy closes completely. 

The obvious problem you have is these owners have zero attachment to the club so all it takes is one bad season and they'll try and flog it off to the next bidder irrespective of their credentials.

You were guaranteed failure under Evans, at least with these guys you might become a low mid-table championship team again.

As for your 'global name' - no-one under 35 really knows what an Ipswich is.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

9 hours ago, chrismakin said:

 I think apart from Prem being the overall target, it will be academy -  potentially cat 1 and rumours of moving it closer to London,  

Colchester maybe ? 😂

[Greavsy 2,415]

1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Tossing  all night then Tillo? You know you've hit Bilious where it hurts if he blocks you,  cos if he thinks there's a scintilla of a chance he can browbeat someone  (after all he's  always right dontcha know)..... there's no way he'd block them. 

He really didn't like his modus operandi  being outed.  Not one bit. Poor lonely Bilious. 👍😇😉

Im quite happy to be in the BBB (Blocked By Bill) club - and agree with you Corkio, I must have hit him where it hurts. 

As ive said previously ive never blocked anyone on here, and all are entitled to their opinion and have a right to post, as do others to contest that view. Its how a forum works surely. 

 

[BigFish 1,987]

22 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah, no way are you getting a Category 1 Academy. From everything that's been leaked regarding your takeover it's more likely the academy closes completely.

Not having academy is a perfectly valid approach, seems to work for Brentford

[cambridgeshire canary 6,718]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

Colchester maybe ? 😂

Just wait until Ipswich pull an MK Don's and become 'Luton Horses FC'

[Surfer 1,547]

Outside of fleecing the taxpayers by tapping Brexit "redevelopment funds" (Ipswich was one of those areas recently announced) just where is better marketing going to improve their revenue stream? They are located on the coast with Premier League teams to the South and soon to the North of them, nobody to the East (obviously) and a rural catchment area of Suffolk and Essex. They have no recognized brand. The logo sucks, and the shirts are plain blue. So that immediately puts them behind Everton and Chelsea with no angle to sell shirts into retail outlets on the basis of either being different (West Ham, Palace, Newcastle, Wolves, Norwich) or famous (Man City, Man Utd, 'Pool) They also have no reputation for attractive football, or star players, or historical stadium, or celebrity manager, or even a winning record. That's a lot of obstacles for any marketing team to overcome. The game plan will have to be - cut the wages, pretend next years squad full of trainees and free transfers are stars of the future, and get the locals back into the stadium a.s.a.p to sell them overpriced beer and pies. 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Surfer

[chicken 2,624]

8 hours ago, chrismakin said:

Town fan here, I come in peace.

 

Just to help with some 'thoughts'

The Arizona Pension 'pot' comes in at around  £440 Billion, (Or similar, it varies in different reports)   this obviously won't the the figure available,  but what ever the investment -  it's a small part of the pension funds.  I think apart from Prem being the overall target, it will be academy -  potentially cat 1 and rumours of moving it closer to London,   Then the opportunity to purchase land around Portman Road, Cardinal Park etc as Brett Johnson has a lot of experience in building sports complexes.   It'll be a long term plan  but for the fans, it will just be nice to see -  hopefully a more structured club and not 1 man trying to be everything and maybe some point again we can have a Derby game, regardless of  result. 

Regarding out debt,  all but £400,000 has effectively been written off. 

That doesn't really address any of the issues I raise.

What you are suggesting is fine. And the the amount written off is clearly what is/was owed to Evans. I suspect that there may well be finer detail in that part of the deal than is known at the moment such as a percentage of the profit should any sale of the club happen. Not to mention his involvement with the new company.

As for moving it closer to London... I'm not sure how much you are allowed to move an academy site. But even so, that is a lot of investment. Add to that the statement made to the media yesterday that a club in the premier league can be sold for hundreds of millions of pounds... and it is worrying. That's just not the case unless it is one of the top sides that has a global presence in the merch side of things. Burnley was not bought for even £50million for example.

Then the costs of Cat 1. If from scratch, land purchase, then construction, then all of the hoops to jump through. Pushing the academy we have to that status cost us millions even with the land and some infrastructure in place. Not only that, but it's not the same as it used to be. You need to player trade with younger age groups too. Lewis and Aarons for us, were signed from Luton for example.

You are talking about years before that starts to pay dividends.

It all sounds great, but my main question was do they really see ITFC as a legitimate prime investment or do they see it as a risk that they can at the very least, use to sign off more taxes on? Only time will tell, but at the very least, the Gamechanger20 group looks a bit dodgy. Why did they need a newly set up company to enact this?

And I always question the use of "effectively". "Effectively written off" - makes me wonder why they aren't written off full stop. As in, they are or they're not. Which leads me to believe that they haven't been, but as earlier eluded to, have been agreed as part of the deal. They just won't appear as debts on the balance sheet anymore as debts.
 

[First Wazzock 902]

On 07/04/2021 at 11:26, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

 

 

Is there any other club largely owned by a Pension Fund? Not sure whether it's a good idea or not, given the requirement to make a return on investment. How many clubs in the top three tiers make a profit which is then taken out of the club by the owners?

I certainly wouldn't want my pension providers investing in a tin pot football club.

Surely they must be looking to make money on their investment, but are they prepared to put the necessary funding in place to try to turn over a profit. It's potentially shades of when big Mick was there, the money from all sales disappearing into the owners trousers...

It's going to need some serious investment, Buendia is probably worth more than the value of their entire squad, 

Edited April 8, 2021 by First Wazzock

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

22 minutes ago, First Wazzock said:

It's going to need some serious investment, Buendia is probably worth more than the value of their entire squad, 

Mark Fotheringham is worth more than their entire squad ! 

[hogesar 9,673]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Not having academy is a perfectly valid approach, seems to work for Brentford

Well, I wouldn't say not having an academy is what's working for Brentford. I'd say having the scouting and recruitment setup they have is what's working for them. There's every argument to suggest that an academy might have produced the extra one or two players for them to have actually made the push into the Premier League in the last few years. There's another argument to say funding the academy might not have allowed them to purchase Toney. I don't know the financials well enough.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

12 hours ago, chrismakin said:

Town fan here, I come in peace.

 

Just to help with some 'thoughts'

The Arizona Pension 'pot' comes in at around  £440 Billion, (Or similar, it varies in different reports)   this obviously won't the the figure available,  but what ever the investment -  it's a small part of the pension funds.  I think apart from Prem being the overall target, it will be academy -  potentially cat 1 and rumours of moving it closer to London,   Then the opportunity to purchase land around Portman Road, Cardinal Park etc as Brett Johnson has a lot of experience in building sports complexes.   It'll be a long term plan  but for the fans, it will just be nice to see -  hopefully a more structured club and not 1 man trying to be everything and maybe some point again we can have a Derby game, regardless of  result. 

Regarding out debt,  all but £400,000 has effectively been written off. 

No. Its current market value is $41.8bn.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Im quite happy to be in the BBB (Blocked By Bill) club - and agree with you Corkio, I must have hit him where it hurts. 

As ive said previously ive never blocked anyone on here, and all are entitled to their opinion and have a right to post, as do others to contest that view. Its how a forum works surely. 

 

I've never blocked anyone either,  there'd be a couple that I ignore, and a couple that I like to pull their legs, but the 'always right fella' is truly mental.....so convinced I was Winko that that he accused me of calling him a thief,  an alcoholic and bizarrest of all......living In France!@???? I pointed out he was mistaken....silly me  , as he doesn't make mistakes,  just  doubles down on his accusations.  So there you have it, most , if not all posters  are generally reasonable, but that fella is Unreasonable.....literally. 

My Mum would say " let him pickle in his own juice".

[vos 155]

Lets hope they do not follow the Chelsea model. Abramovich bought the Club for 140 million, but they now owe him 700 million. Since his ownership they have paid out 110 million in compensation to former Managers. On this evidence not sure the Premiership is the promised land for pension monies !!!!

[kirku 1,332]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

 Burnley was not bought for even £50million for example.

I agree with most of your points but I believe Burnley's recent investment put their value around £250m?

[shefcanary 2,408]

5 hours ago, BigFish said:

Not having academy is a perfectly valid approach, seems to work for Brentford

Hmm, where are they this season, about to miss out again via play offs?  And why?  Lack of squad depth; where are their Mumba's / Omobamidele's / Idah's / Martin's / Barden's etc.  

[nutty nigel 7,535]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Hmm, where are they this season, about to miss out again via play offs?  And why?  Lack of squad depth; where are their Mumba's / Omobamidele's / Idah's / Martin's / Barden's etc.  

But they already won it in February so that's ok...

😂

Good point though Sheff. Especially in a season where bigger squads would be needed.

[BigFish 1,987]

10 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Hmm, where are they this season, about to miss out again via play offs?  And why?  Lack of squad depth; where are their Mumba's / Omobamidele's / Idah's / Martin's / Barden's etc.  

Are you questioning the amount of talent they have discovered and sold on as well as the profit?

In doing so you raise interesting questions about our academy. None of the the players you list actually came through the NCFC academy, they weren't here before they were 16. They were at Sunderland, in Ireland or at Arsenal. Of the crown jewels from last season only Cantwell was academy developed. Godfrey, Lewis and Aarons were poached, for want of a better word, from other club's systems. Good scouting by us, excellent development and opportunity giving but there is a grey area between this and a Cat 1 academy developing players from the age of 8.

Brentford got tired of being poached from, and are following the poacher model. Fair play to them, it is working. Should the binners get a cat 1 academy it would be a good pond for a nearby, more established EPL club to fish for their better players in.

Edited April 9, 2021 by BigFish

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

22 hours ago, kirku said:

While hardly Phileas Fogg, I spent a number of years living abroad and not once did I hear any mention of Ipswich from any football fans. The idea that they have any kind of international reputation is absolutely hilarious.

About a month ago one of the questions on Pointless (BBC quiz show) was to name a football team that has played in the Premier League. The point of the game is to give a correct answer that none of 100 people in the audience named beforehand. Ipswich was a pointless answer. Not one of 100 people asked the question knew that Ipswich had been in the Premier League.

Most people under 40 in the UK don't even know they once won something. My cousin's children from Huddersfield aged 11 and 13 didn't even know where Ipswich was when I talked to them on Wednesday and they certainly didn't know Ipswich had a football team.

They are Huddersfield season ticket holders and called me to ask me to persuade their mother to move back to Norwich 😊