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TeemuVanBasten

I'm not renewing my season ticket.

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May as well just put myself out of my misery and draw a line under this. 

For the first time since getting one 26 years ago I'm not renewing. 

I guess rather than expressing my outrage on here but clearly being so clearly out of tune with the majority, I should probably just do the decent thing and express it that way. 

Away membership mugging, taking furlough money but no player wage deferrals or executive pay cuts, announcing a signing during furlough. 

May sit right with a lot of you, clearly, but it doesn't sit right with me. 

For the first time ever I actually feel truly ashamed of the way the club has gone about things. It changes everything I thought I knew about this club, its manager and its playing squad.

I'm dejected, and don't worry.... I'll be gone for a long time, no doubt to the relief of quite a few of you (people who can bring themselves to rationalise and defend the indefensible, I'm glad I'm not you). 

Fair play to Bournemouth fans for applying pressure on their club, not going to happen at ours.

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As a supporter of 50 years who was one of the most generous contributors to the 2002 Share Offer I absolutely agree with your sentiment. 

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I’m not flying Virgin Atlantic and going to Disney world next year. Just thought I’d put that out there 🙄

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I'm just glad I heard this first hand and not after the inevitable storm on Twitter tomorrow morning 

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I would say you'll be missed....but the simple fact is nobody gives a toss about your attention seeking nor your high horse.

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My God, you lot really don't like to be challenged do you? I don't agree with a lot of what he has said but at least TvB has some principles he is prepared to stand up for - what do you lot have apart from blind faith?

Are we not allowed to even question what our club's executive team do anymore? Or our government? Or our police force? All of which have been completely useless in dealing with this crisis so far? We can't even test people or get the frontline staff adequately protected almost 3 months after the first case. We have a police force who don't know the law they are supposed to be enforcing. At a much more local and trivial level we have a Sporting Director who has made what everyone must surely agree is a very questionable decision, but we're not allowed to ask why in case we get accused of attention seeking or not being proper supporters?

This is up there with Ipswich not paying their debts for me - why are we not entitled to know why the decision has been taken?

 

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Posted (edited)

That’s a gross over-exaggeration.  

“You lot” don’t like to be challenged?  By making mass threads saying the same thing and calling people illiterate for not agreeing, then flouncing out and making this “announcement” that no one needs to know? Er, ok.

I love to be challenged, but it has to be via reason making me think about my opinion, not continuous bombardment of the same thing over and over.

The fact is, I see the furloughing as a purely business decision, protecting staff who could easily otherwise be shelved legitimately (if not morally); making use of a scheme put in place for that precise purpose makes perfect sense for a club in the position NCFC finds itself.  I’d be hugely disappointed but not overly surprised if we backed out of it, though.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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Each to their own; you do what you want to. I am however, not sure why you expect anyone to care enough to justify making this statement?

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

My God, you lot really don't like to be challenged do you? I don't agree with a lot of what he has said but at least TvB has some principles he is prepared to stand up for - what do you lot have apart from blind faith?

Are we not allowed to even question what our club's executive team do anymore? Or our government? Or our police force? All of which have been completely useless in dealing with this crisis so far? We can't even test people or get the frontline staff adequately protected almost 3 months after the first case. We have a police force who don't know the law they are supposed to be enforcing. At a much more local and trivial level we have a Sporting Director who has made what everyone must surely agree is a very questionable decision, but we're not allowed to ask why in case we get accused of attention seeking or not being proper supporters?

This is up there with Ipswich not paying their debts for me - why are we not entitled to know why the decision has been taken?

 

No one has said you can't question the decisions. In fact, most of TvBs threads are him spilling his views everywhere, telling everyone they're wrong and inviting conflict. It's a bit difficult to castigate one side of an argument for being stubborn & blinkered at the same time as praising the other for the steadfastness.

And as the two chaps above go on to say, we aren't actually arguing any of this at all- it's more that I have as much interest in what Paul Lambert has on his cornflakes as I do whether TvB is renewing next year. 

Edited by Mason 47
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TvB I am in total agreement with you and have already cancelled my season ticket already... one that I have for decades.

It is out of principle for the way that NCFC have handled the furlough system.

I can appreciate that some on here will call me a binner, but ironically many of them have never been to a match or have a season ticket. Strange how this is a little bit like Corbynism / Momentum ... that was also well received by the general public 🤔

Good on you!! 👍

Once this regime changes I may return but by then I may realise that spending Saturdays with new hobbies, friends, family and my children will be more fun. (If interested I am going to use this time to learn to sail with my children)

Good luck to you all, especially the echo chamber idiots!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, sgncfc said:

My God, you lot really don't like to be challenged do you? I don't agree with a lot of what he has said but at least TvB has some principles he is prepared to stand up for - what do you lot have apart from blind faith?

Are we not allowed to even question what our club's executive team do anymore? Or our government? Or our police force? All of which have been completely useless in dealing with this crisis so far? We can't even test people or get the frontline staff adequately protected almost 3 months after the first case. We have a police force who don't know the law they are supposed to be enforcing. At a much more local and trivial level we have a Sporting Director who has made what everyone must surely agree is a very questionable decision, but we're not allowed to ask why in case we get accused of attention seeking or not being proper supporters?

This is up there with Ipswich not paying their debts for me - why are we not entitled to know why the decision has been taken?

 

"My God, you lot really don't like to be challenged do you?"  - It's funny this is aimed at us instead of the guy jacking in his season ticket and leaving the forum because he couldn't accept not everyone agreed with his viewpoint.

I don't have a problem with TVB posting what he posts - I disagree with some of it and find the arguments he uses to back up his claims lacking somewhat more often than not but have seen a lot of his posts on here as similar to the 'devils advocate' role.

You're getting way ahead of yourself - TVB has declared he's no longer renewing his season ticket and won't be on the forum for a while - and people have responded telling him they really don't care - what responses did you expect from them exactly? it's an Internet forum. TVB has been one of the more aggressive posters on here the past few months and these are the expected results.

If you and others disagree with the furlough decision that's fine. I personally, when I consider our owners wealth and way they run this club, find it hard to see why we shouldn't be using this option. If you disagree that's fine. Who has told you you can't challenge the clubs decision? All I've seen is repetitive posts and the same answers to them. Is that your idea of your views not being allowed - getting the same responses to the same questions?

But before trying to tell us we have no principles sgncfc I do hope people like you are consistent whilst sat atop your moral high horse. I'd hate to think your wearing clothes made in a sweatshop, an iPhone (or one of many modern phones made in sweatshop style factories) and that you'll be steering clear of other, much larger companies than Norwich City who have also used the Furlough scheme.

Edited by Hillhead
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TVB, yb...you guys are entitled to your opinions and your personal actions, though i think its sad that you have been so drastic in that its Coronavirus, not NCFC, that brought about this complex and life or death situation...literal life and death as regards many thousands of  people and possible life or death as regards many football clubs...or at the very least...and this includes NCFC...a very difficult and financially short term situation brought about by a lockdown caused by the virus...and TVB...you have decried so much about this wonderful club that im surprised you did not walk away long ago.

We all have opinions and all make decisions..long ago...years and years..when Sky first came along and started pumping money into football..i made a concious decision never ever to buy any TV package from them..initially it was because i already paid  money for a TV licence so refused to give even more money to any TV company that wanted yet more money for the right to watch their output. To this day i have stuck by this on principle, but ive never found the need to write in any forum about it.

I will always be a fan of NCFC..they have benefited from Sky money yes...but always  done it  via promotion to the top flight on merit, and most times, cut their cloth when the money was not there. This furlough scheme is a very sensible scheme in a time of huge national and global disaster, with massive economic difficulties ahead,  to at least try and keep on staff for the future..its a no nonsense helping hand in a time of great crisis and if NCFC feel the need to take it up then i support them in doing so.

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The furloughing thing has been misunderstood by those that are vehemently against it and those that have an extreme position on it are just plain over reacting.  A rich club can afford to weather any financial storm but we are not rich. The business model (the most self financing club in the top league) is such that all the good work that has been done to get us where we are could be wiped out and return us to being a club in debt and basically living beyond its means, very quickly - a position that would see mass redundancies at the club and put the club in jeopardy again.  

Is that what people really want? As always some seem to think there is money washing around the club but in reality whatever money is there, be it 10 or 15 million or whatever will soon disappear on wages should next season become in jeopardy or if TV money is curtailed. Yes we could sell players, yeah, why not just sell off the assets and not replace them, so that we don't have the quality to compete at whatever level we are at, drop down the league and watch as the club has to make people redundant. 

So all in all, even if you think the club should not be doing this furloughing, surely you can see the other side to your extreme position? The scheme is legitimate and in our case being used for the right reasons. Spurs and other super rich clubs can weather a storm..... because they are rich. 

We are not - and there is a strong argument to say that we are using it correctly - as many other clubs will be who do not have super rich owners. As for away mugging, there is justification for criticism there, but that has been addressed. As for the new signing, that is something that there was probably an agreement in place way before now so again, another over reaction. 

We all understand how bad things are at the moment, but at some stage things will have to be dealt with in terms of getting football up and running again and many less rich clubs and businesses will be using the furlough scheme. I'm not happy about anyone needing to use a furlough scheme - but it has been put in place to protect jobs and that is what it will do.

Money in football is going to dry up fast with no football happening and no or less TV money but players wages will have to be paid. If next season looks like being delayed - and it does look like that will happen - they may agree to some kind of temporary cut in wages - but even with a 30% cut, clubs without big resources are going to struggle or go to the wall. Much better then that clubs like ours who have a genuine sustainable business model are protected then. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Good luck to you all, especially the echo chamber idiots!

Do you know what “echo chamber” means? TVB’s post moans about him/her not being part of the majority, about something that doesn’t sit right with him/her but does sit right with others,  calls other people’s opinion “indefensible” (as opposed to his/her opinion) and finishes by moaning because most NCFC fans won’t do what he/she wants.

So is it an “echo chamber” when there are these disagreements, or has TVB just posted a “sulk” exactly because it isn’t an echo chamber and not everyone agrees with him/her?

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Hillhead... Principles my friend principles. 
 

I don’t believe that anyone is jacking in their season ticket because of chaos like you being mean and horrible. I think it is to do with how the club is run and the decisions they make.

i can’t talk for others but you will be pleased that I do buy on principle and do avoid places that I really disagree with. If everyone did a little bit more of this, rather than just accepting, the world would be a lot better Hillhead. Go on give it a go, leave the other sheep behind. 

 

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It is just a shame that the only voice the fans have to challenge the club on anything is Ben Kensell's e-mail address.

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Echo chamber...

 

“an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
"people are living in partisan and ideological echo chambers"
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Posted (edited)

Completely agree with original posters comments. A person with values and principles and we should respect his decision. Forget these teenage keyboard warriors with pent up anger, why be so bitter about another persons actions? Does it impact or affect your life?

Lake District Canary can have his views which I don’t agree with. We are using the tax payers money to fund non playing staff when we are still paying people £30-40k a week which have not taken pay cuts. Absolute naviety to think we aren’t paying those kind of wages. It does not sit right and the charitable donations are just a tax dodge. 
 

We should never of furloughed our staff and we should reverse the decision. How can we do that and then announce a signing? Anyone who furloughs staff should not be allowed to spend any money until the tax payer has completely been reimbursed. It’s shameful and sickening of the silence from the club. 

Edited by CanaryLegend
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The alternative view is all those players are paying significant tax and then making donations with the money they have after that. If they halved their wages less tax would be paid and they may not be so keen on making donations. Swings and roundabouts perhaps.

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3 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Echo chamber...

 

“an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
"people are living in partisan and ideological echo chambers"

Right, so answer the question then.
 

Or are you saying the message board wouldn’t be an “echo chamber”if everyone just agreed with TVB, but it is an “echo chamber” if the majority don’t agree (note even TVB said the majority, not everyone)?

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Oh Aggy... you are a twit. Best return your echo chamber. 

 

Perhaps you you can get to an actual game one day. I think I heard you on Canary Call before with the other radio idiots.

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15 minutes ago, CanaryLegend said:

 

We should never of furloughed our staff and we should reverse the decision. How can we do that and then announce a signing? Anyone who furloughs staff should not be allowed to spend any money until the tax payer has completely been reimbursed. It’s shameful and sickening of the silence from the club. 

The signing was pre-announced - he signs in the summer...the timing was slightly clumsy but not really down to the club.

You do appear to be suggesting no company using the furlough scheme can trade until they repay somehow; that does rather defy logic and the reason the scheme was introduced.  It is only via trading and being successful that the money will be earned to ‘repay’ it.  Or is football/NCFC to be singled out for some strange reason?

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1 hour ago, Hillhead said:

and that you'll be steering clear of other, much larger companies than Norwich City who have also used the Furlough scheme.

I think this point needs to be challenged a bit- you can't really compare football clubs to most other companies with similar turnovers in this sort of situation due to the structure of wages.

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4 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

The club will be fair game for all the slating it gets when Newcastle do their reverse too.

Newcastle are currently celebrating being taken over by a Saudi Prince, they'll find the moral high ground a very slippery place...

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10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

May as well just put myself out of my misery and draw a line under this. 

For the first time since getting one 26 years ago I'm not renewing. 

I guess rather than expressing my outrage on here but clearly being so clearly out of tune with the majority, I should probably just do the decent thing and express it that way. 

Away membership mugging, taking furlough money but no player wage deferrals or executive pay cuts, announcing a signing during furlough. 

May sit right with a lot of you, clearly, but it doesn't sit right with me. 

For the first time ever I actually feel truly ashamed of the way the club has gone about things. It changes everything I thought I knew about this club, its manager and its playing squad.

I'm dejected, and don't worry.... I'll be gone for a long time, no doubt to the relief of quite a few of you (people who can bring themselves to rationalise and defend the indefensible, I'm glad I'm not you). 

Fair play to Bournemouth fans for applying pressure on their club, not going to happen at ours.

You won’t be missed, enjoy Portman Road

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Pointless virtue signalling. 

Exactly. Using our proud club as a vehicle to expressing anger with...who knows really what??? 

So, someone is not renewing a season ticket. How incredibly self-important to announce it publicly on a message board. 

 

Enjoy the game, my friend. Enjoy the spectacle. Enjoy being art of something real and something special. Whatever annoyances life has dealt you, leave them at home when you come to football.

Edited by Pugin

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