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TeemuVanBasten

I'm not renewing my season ticket.

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

I think this point needs to be challenged a bit- you can't really compare football clubs to most other companies with similar turnovers in this sort of situation due to the structure of wages.

I'm a bit confused here, I specifically said "much larger" and I'm also not stating that these companies shouldn't use it. So I'd like to know why you feel we shouldn't.

Football is rather unique in that we knew about the vast increase we would be getting this season and just how drastically that would fall again should the worst happen next season. I feel we've been extremely conservative with our spend this season but even despite that it's not hard to see when you look at the balance sheet from last season we were never going to be flush with cash going forward. I have no idea of the current financial situation but I find it hard to criticise the clubs decision when it's pretty clear that with just how extreme the loss of money could be that we can go from being a club that was well set up for the future regardless of relegation to one that might be struggling because it doesn't have a rich owner to prop it out. 

I strongly think furloughing is the correct decision and justified - I'd be sorry to see staff out of jobs even a year or two down the line because the club didn't make use of the scheme available to it in response to a global pandemic. When Webber was asked about what promotion would mean for Norwich (back in 2017 I think) he said it would likely set us up for 20-30 year) I took that to mean it would allow for clearing of debts and structuring of the club to make it self sustainable - I know many on this forum don't want Delia here - but it is still his job to keep Norwich in as strong a position as possible.

I feel my views have been consistent and I even remember you KC getting a bit tetchy with me when you were arguing that we should have made an extra £10 or so million available for player spending in the summer. I feel the club has been run in a resonsible manner and whilst it wouldn't be first in the queue of the furlough scheme, its got as much as right to it as any other of these major companies in my opinion.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, sgncfc said:

My God, you lot really don't like to be challenged do you? I don't agree with a lot of what he has said but at least TvB has some principles he is prepared to stand up for - what do you lot have apart from blind faith?

Not the case, I have very principled views on lots of things and I'm happy to see those challenged.

I don't think the club have handled this perfectly. Sinani is a total misnomer because this was pretty much tied up in January. The announcement is poor timing but we won't be paying him until next season so it's a total red herring to say that we've signed him whilst furloughing staff.... he also presumably will be on relatively low wages for a playing member of staff coming from the Luxembourg league.

On the furloughing issue itself, I don't know enough about the club finances but would rather see them furlough than p45 the non-playing staff. 

The main point is not TvB's viewpoint or perspective being different, I don't care about that.... which is sort of the point. If that's what he wants to do, then fine, no objections, but I'm not sure what he was expecting to get out of making this post.... the entire purpose of it is just attention seeking, holier than thou, toys out the pram ****.

Edited by kick it off
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3 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Not the case, I have very principled views on lots of things and I'm happy to see those challenged.

I don't think the club have handled this perfectly. Sinani is a total misnomer because this was pretty much tied up in January. The announcement is poor timing but we won't be paying him until next season so it's a total red herring to say that we've signed him whilst furloughing staff.... he also presumably will be on relatively low wages for a playing member of staff coming from the Luxembourg league.

On the furloughing issue itself, I don't know enough about the club finances but would rather see them furlough than p45 the non-playing staff. 

The main point is not TvB's viewpoint or perspective being different, I don't care about that.... which is sort of the point. If that's what he wants to do, then fine, no objections, but I'm not sure what he was expecting to get out of making this post.... the entire purpose of it is just attention seeking, holier than thou, toys out the pram ****.

This......

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Might be worth people seeing how the situation plays out over the next few months before nailing their colours to the mast. 

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I must admit, while I think the OP may regret his decision, I agree with much of his sentiment.

Can we admit that the club is looking slightly remote in its stance on furloughing? Furloughing while the club's big earners continue to be paid.

Only us and Newcastle left out of 20 EPL clubs and that does not include some clubs in lower divisions who may not be doing it but do not have our guaranteed TV money income.

And the very disingenuous love of the NHS when they couldn't give a stuff about it when resources were cut in real terms and staff received little if no pay rises over a long period of time. Please don't be so hypocritical.

To be fair, I am a bit sick of this love in at the moment. It is just jumping on the bandwagon by many. Bleddy celebrities tweeting how wonderful people are while at the same time instructing their accountants to find ways to save them from paying tax that would boost the NHS.

You have to mean it. Not just when it suits.

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2 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It really isnt 'up there with Ipswich not paying their debts'....and to say that is pathetic frankly

...as is the attempt to compare us with Bournemouth, who are funded from abroad and have operated with incredible generous backing for years. We are unique. Celebrate it!

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10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

For the first time since getting one 26 years ago I'm not renewing. 

Sorry to have to point this out TVB, but the first renewal date was 18th February, the second was 21st March. Seems to me that

1. You weren't going to renew anyway or

2. You didn't know the renewal date because you are not actually a season ticket holder like you proclaim to be!

 

I suppose that we will now have to put up with you making nonsense claims about this in an attempt to justify what you have said, but I's advise against it as you normally just dig yourself in deeper and deeper.

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Just now, Badger said:

Sorry to have to point this out TVB, but the first renewal date was 18th February, the second was 21st March. Seems to me that

1. You weren't going to renew anyway or

2. You didn't know the renewal date because you are not actually a season ticket holder like you proclaim to be!

 

I suppose that we will now have to put up with you making nonsense claims about this in an attempt to justify what you have said, but I's advise against it as you normally just dig yourself in deeper and deeper.

Well spotted Badger😂

 

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I for one am shocked and saddened that divisive ****poster TVB is giving up his season ticket. I will spend the day mulling over how the club can get past this new hurdle. 

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16 minutes ago, Herman said:

I for one am shocked and saddened that divisive ****poster TVB is giving up his season ticket. I will spend the day mulling over how the club can get past this new hurdle. 

I think we just had a momentary 502 error. Probably in sympathy with TVB😁

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52 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Might be worth people seeing how the situation plays out over the next few months before nailing their colours to the mast. 

Could also have been a good strategy for the club- maybe wait and see a bit rather than jumping onto furloughing at the first opportunity.

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Badger... you maybe interested to know that if you contact the club directly they will cancel your season ticket if you highlight that you are disgusted with them taking the furlough scheme.

i am also led to believe that the directors are looking at this. If people contact them directly and put pressure on them then I believe that we will reverse this decision. We have enough money to cover this but we are following advise of the accountant... a bit like Gary Barlow did when he shifted money into overseas tax havens. Legally allowed but morally questionable...

So dear clever ****, it seems you are not clever just a ....

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1 hour ago, FenwayFrank said:

The alternative view is all those players are paying significant tax and then making donations with the money they have after that. If they halved their wages less tax would be paid and they may not be so keen on making donations. Swings and roundabouts perhaps.

The tax payed by City players is peanuts. Reducing their salery isn't exactly going to break the country. 

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9 minutes ago, king canary said:

Could also have been a good strategy for the club- maybe wait and see a bit rather than jumping onto furloughing at the first opportunity.

...the Furlough offer is only on offer from the government for an initial 3 months...of which we're nearly the first month into.

Who knows whether it will be reviewed or extended beyond that?

...if we were going to do it...why would we wait?

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15 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Badger... you maybe interested to know that if you contact the club directly they will cancel your season ticket if you highlight that you are disgusted with them taking the furlough scheme.

He didn't cancel though did he - he said he wasn't renewing! 

Kind of suggests that he wasn't going to renew doesn't it or didn't know the renewal date because he wasn't a season ticket holder anyway. You are free to believe him if you choose, of course, but most people aren't that credulous - he never does anything but criticise the club and the owners. 

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18 minutes ago, City fan said:

The tax payed by City players is peanuts. Reducing their salery isn't exactly going to break the country. 

It is far more than the cost of NCFC taking up the govt's furlough scheme though! 😁

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, king canary said:

Could also have been a good strategy for the club- maybe wait and see a bit rather than jumping onto furloughing at the first opportunity.

if it turns out Norwich haven't lost out at all, let's say some scenario where the premierleague gets extended by 3 months and the PL decide to give out an extra 3 months of what the tv money would be worth (coming out of the PLs savings) I would honestly hope that Norwich do the right thing and hand the money back.

If that (highly unlikely) situation doesn't come to pass I do think Norwich have done the right thing. You can't wait and see, you won't be able to rewind the clock and furlough.

Edited by Hillhead
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2 hours ago, yellow_belly said:

Hillhead... Principles my friend principles. 
 

I don’t believe that anyone is jacking in their season ticket because of chaos like you being mean and horrible. I think it is to do with how the club is run and the decisions they make.

i can’t talk for others but you will be pleased that I do buy on principle and do avoid places that I really disagree with. If everyone did a little bit more of this, rather than just accepting, the world would be a lot better Hillhead. Go on give it a go, leave the other sheep behind. 

 

Have to say that I'm completely baffled by your and TvB's objections to the club's use of the furlough scheme, since they are using it in exactly the way that the government intended and have also topped the remaining 20% of staff wages themselves which many other businesses using the scheme are not.

However if this offends some principle you hold dear then you have done the right thing but I really wonder whether you are actually going to apply it to other areas because that is really going to cut a swathe through the places you can shop for the foreseeable future.

But I'm with you in terms of buying on principle which is why, for example, I've never bought anything from Amazon for reasons which are well-known and IMO good ones but I'm still struggling to understand what principle you feel NCFC have violated.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Hillhead said:

 

If that (highly unlikely) situation doesn't come to pass I do think Norwich have done the right think. You can't wait and see, you won't be able to rewind the clock and furlough.

Exactly this, we aren't in a time for 'wait and see', this is a time for decision makers and that just makes some people uncomfortable.

With our unique club situation, it would be irresponsible not to take necessary steps to make the money go as far as possible, as promptly as we can. It would be no moral consolation in 6 months time if we've had to let 90% of club employees go and are embroiled in legal battles for unpaid player contracts 

Edited by Mason 47
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6 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

 

With our unique club situation, it would be irresponsible not to take necessary steps to make the money go as far as possible, as promptly as we can. It would be no moral consolation in 6 months time if we've had to let 90% of club employees go and are embroiled in legal battles for unpaid player contracts 

This ^^^^^^^

👍

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1 hour ago, Pugin said:

...as is the attempt to compare us with Bournemouth, who are funded from abroad and have operated with incredible generous backing for years. We are unique. Celebrate it!

Celebrate a "self funded" model asking for tax payers money to pay for it's non playing staff whilst continuing to pay thousands a week for playing staff that are not playing? It is wrong, the majority of the British public think it is wrong and it's embarrassing and not good for the club that only Mike Ashley and us are doing it! We are unique in not having sufficient cash flow to keep a premiership club going for a few months, I will give you that

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12 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

May as well just put myself out of my misery and draw a line under this. 

For the first time since getting one 26 years ago I'm not renewing. 

I guess rather than expressing my outrage on here but clearly being so clearly out of tune with the majority, I should probably just do the decent thing and express it that way. 

Away membership mugging, taking furlough money but no player wage deferrals or executive pay cuts, announcing a signing during furlough. 

May sit right with a lot of you, clearly, but it doesn't sit right with me. 

For the first time ever I actually feel truly ashamed of the way the club has gone about things. It changes everything I thought I knew about this club, its manager and its playing squad.

I'm dejected, and don't worry.... I'll be gone for a long time, no doubt to the relief of quite a few of you (people who can bring themselves to rationalise and defend the indefensible, I'm glad I'm not you). 

Fair play to Bournemouth fans for applying pressure on their club, not going to happen at ours.

That's a pity you feel that that and it's not good a City fan feels this strongly.. ignore the frankly childish Portman Road quotes hey matter not a not... 

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6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

This ^^^^^^^

👍

With @ricardo on this one, as well. Nothing wrong with the club like any other business taking advantage of this legal scheme for the clubs best interests. Foolish not do.

Just virtue signaling on behalf of those criticising clubs taking this money, from those with a particularly ideology or using it as another stick to beat the club. Morality doesn't come into it.

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1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It really isnt 'up there with Ipswich not paying their debts'....and to say that is pathetic frankly

Well it is for me. I am allowed to think differently. I don't think you're "pathetic" for holding a contrary view to mine - please explain why you think I am being "pathetic" or don't you have the vocabulary?

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1 minute ago, sgncfc said:

Well it is for me. I am allowed to think differently. I don't think you're "pathetic" for holding a contrary view to mine - please explain why you think I am being "pathetic" or don't you have the vocabulary?

...who exactly are we in debt to?

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Doesn’t seem to be getting mentioned but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that Sheffield United are using the scheme also

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4 minutes ago, JF said:

Doesn’t seem to be getting mentioned but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that Sheffield United are using the scheme also

They are paying staff furloughed 100% their wage and not using the government scheme. 

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1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

 

...the Furlough offer is only on offer from the government for an initial 3 months...of which we're nearly the first month into.

Who knows whether it will be reviewed or extended beyond that?

...if we were going to do it...why would we wait?

The offer is 3 months backdated to 1st March. Applications for the scheme are being accepted from April 20th. Today is the 15th. The cash will take at least 3 weeks to be approved. We didn't have to make the decision yet, so why have we? That's the only question I have posed and the silence from the club is deafening. In this specific instance, the executive has made a huge decision which is impacting on the reputation of the club as a whole and they need to either explain why the decision has been made or reverse it.

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