The elephant in the room remains how bad our defence looks

[Jim Smith 2,325]

Don’t get me wrong, great run of results and some good displays but am I the only one who is alarmed at how awful we still look defensively at times.

Plymouth could have had three or four today despite having very little territory or possession .

Not one of our defenders can actually mark properly or track runners.

I guess the next two games will be the acid test but can we really sustain a promotion/playoff push with such poor defensive discipline? 

[Canary Jedi 579]

Agree. Thanks to Gunn and poor finishing from Plymouth we won the game.

[Midlands Yellow 4,016]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Don’t get me wrong, great run of results and some good displays but am I the only one who is alarmed at how awful we still look defensively at times.

Plymouth could have had three or four today despite having very little territory or possession .

Not one of our defenders can actually mark properly or track runners.

I guess the next two games will be the acid test but can we really sustain a promotion/playoff push with such poor defensive discipline? 

We can, Carrow Road is a fortress right now. Just be half decent in the remaining away matches and top 6 is guaranteed. 

[Corbs1 90]

It’s no Elephant, it’s openly out there, the defence has done well, but could do with some extra consolidation 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,435]

Well and the 65% possession , 23 shots 550 passes and 13 corners we got hammered by them.
 

Phew. Got away with one today lads. 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

6 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Well and the 65% possession , 23 shots 550 passes and 13 corners we got hammered by them.
 

Phew. Got away with one today lads. 

The point is that despite dominating we still give teams like that good chances. 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

The point is that despite dominating we still give teams like that good chances. 

Surely we are never going to get through a game without the other side creating some chances.  The point is that they had many fewer than us.  If it was merely the case of one side or other just dominating the entire 90+ minutes, I’m not sure we’d bother going. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,827]

The defence did look a lot more sloppy today than it has recently, I agree. I wouldn't be too alarmed though and hopefully it was just a blip, because it has improved quite a bit since the autumn. 

Even though Sorensen has done OK since his introduction, I'd feel more comfortable with Duffy in there ahead of him over the next two games. It would sacrifice quality on the ball, but we're likely to be tested more defensively by higher quality teams so probably need the defensive security and leadership that Duffy would provide.

[Conrad 171]

7 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Don’t get me wrong, great run of results and some good displays but am I the only one who is alarmed at how awful we still look defensively at times.

Plymouth could have had three or four today despite having very little territory or possession .

Not one of our defenders can actually mark properly or track runners.

I guess the next two games will be the acid test but can we really sustain a promotion/playoff push with such poor defensive discipline? 

I guess that it has a lot to do with the defensive systems we play. It was the same under Farke so I would like to say that it is a German thing. Unfortunately it isn't, as Smith and Lambert proved (although Lambert may have had a German influence).

[Conrad 171]

7 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Well and the 65% possession , 23 shots 550 passes and 13 corners we got hammered by them.
 

Phew. Got away with one today lads. 

Being critical, 23 shots resulted in 2 on target in the 1st half and 1 in the 2nd. A lot of the 'shots' could be considered speculative at best.

As I said, that's being critical. The alternative view is that you cannot win a raffle without buying a ticket.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

It’s been our Achilles heel for some time. It’s not just style or tactics because it’s been the constant under a succession of managers. One for a serious overhaul in the summer - especially if we go up…gulp 

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

I realise that he's more than a decent utility man at this level, but I do not consider central defence is Sorensen's best position. He's just not commanding enough and along with Gibson who is the same, it makes the defence shaky, especially with high balls into the area.

I assume Duffy will be back for Leicester and him alongside Gibson will have to do, especially with doubts over Hanley's fitness.

We have a stable of young centre-halves getting good reviews from their loans who soon might be up to it.

Yesterday's duo will be overrun in the PL, should we get there, so apart from big signings which we do not have the cash to indulge in, one of these youth might be ready to step-up. A big ask, but as with Omo it could be the making of them.

If we remain in the Chumps I believe we will have no choice as it might be considered that, due to financial restrictions, both Gibson and Sorensen may not have their contracts renewed. Especially the former.

Edited March 30 by BroadstairsR

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

Sorensen is not a centre back and we looked better when he wasn’t out out of position there and losing most of the headers

Edited March 30 by Dr Greenthumb

[Ulfotto 640]

Sorensen is a good player but I’m not sure he is nasty enough to be a championship centre half.

[Fen Canary 851]

There’s only 7 teams who have conceded more goals than us this season (although maybe somebody with more time than me can see how much if that was on our bad run, and how that compares to our form since the Blackburn game). I think I agree though it’s definitely an area that needs strengthening over the summer, whether that’s through signings, tactics or a combination of the two. If and when we do go up again, we’ll stand more chance of staying up if we do so with a solid defensive unit 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

I think Gibson is as bad as Sorensen to be honest. He’s good at passing the ball out but he consistently gets dragged towards the ball when crosses come in. Quite what he was doing for the chance they had late on in the game I don’t know. Just ran away from their player leaving him completely free and an easy through ball.

it’s telling that Kenny remains by far our most convincing CB this season. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

It's definitely an issue, but I'm not sure how worried to be just on the basis of yesterday. It was one of those games against a lower-half team who came to sit deep and break quickly - and that did seem to be their strength. Especially since we went one down early on, we were always likely to be pushing numbers forward and thus vulnerable on the counter.

You'd imagine that against Leicester we'd be less expansive. I thought we were very well organised in the away game at Leeds, for instance, though of course we didn't create a huge amount that night. As others have said, you'd hope we'd have Duffy back, at least for a proportion of the game. I do feel you need one physically imposing CB at this level and with Hanley not up to speed he's clearly the best we have in that department.

One other thing to add is that we have tightened up in terms of the structure. Having Barnes and Sargent back obviously helps, but the key players in this regard are the inverted wingers, two from Sainz, Sara and Fassnacht, all who naturally come in off their wings and thus are much more effective defensively when we lose the ball.

So in summary, it's definitely not our strength, we're much better going forward than we are defensively, but I'd say there's no need to panic.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,756]

Questions remain about Batth. Sunderland players loved him, proven solid defender, winner of player of the season for them..

 

And we would rather start Sorenson and then bring on an unfit Duffy rather than start him. Whatever did he say to Wagner behind the scenes? What drama are we missing out on?

Edited March 30 by cambridgeshire canary

[Fen Canary 851]

5 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

It's definitely an issue, but I'm not sure how worried to be just on the basis of yesterday. It was one of those games against a lower-half team who came to sit deep and break quickly - and that did seem to be their strength. Especially since we went one down early on, we were always likely to be pushing numbers forward and thus vulnerable on the counter.

You'd imagine that against Leicester we'd be less expansive. I thought we were very well organised in the away game at Leeds, for instance, though of course we didn't create a huge amount that night. As others have said, you'd hope we'd have Duffy back, at least for a proportion of the game. I do feel you need one physically imposing CB at this level and with Hanley not up to speed he's clearly the best we have in that department.

One other thing to add is that we have tightened up in terms of the structure. Having Barnes and Sargent back obviously helps, but the key players in this regard are the inverted wingers, two from Sainz, Sara and Fassnacht, all who naturally come in off their wings and thus are much more effective defensively when we lose the ball.

So in summary, it's definitely not our strength, we're much better going forward than we are defensively, but I'd say there's no need to panic.

I don’t think we’ve had a solid back 4 since the Lambert/Hughton era. For a decade now and even through numerous promotion seasons I’ve always been terrified every time the opposition cross the halfway line with the ball 

[TheGunnShow 5,966]

Thought Lungi was better than Gibson, but the real thing is that both full-backs push up very high, and neither Gibson nor Lungi are particularly quick. Need Duffy back against Ipswich though, as Kieffer Moore is a whole different animal up top. The real problem was McCallum's slow tracking back, which then made things harder for Gibson as left centre-half than they needed to be.

EDIT: Bit of respect should go to Plymouth though, they've got one of the league's top scorers in their ranks and were a well-drilled counter-attacking outfit, and they've scored quite a lot of goals for a team in the bottom half.

Edited March 30 by TheGunnShow

[stratton canary 134]

Need Duffy back to make Moore against the binners! 

[Mike 2]

I would have Sorensen at left back and Duffy back in the centre. Thought Kenny was MOTM against Plymouth

Edited March 30 by Mike

[mannings bandy legs 391]

The lack of communication between the back four is terrible. Nobody seems able to organise and unless Gibson has 20 secs on the ball to decide what to do with it,he panics and looks like a rabbit in headlights.

Our left hand side is wide open to pace as McCallum is'nt the quickest and then relies on Gibson to bail him out.Its a worrie with the games coming up.

[Samwam27 531]

Now Duffy is back im suprised we're persevering with Sorenson.

Surely we want Duffy back for the run in as he was playing well before his injury

[yellowrider120 767]

11 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Don’t get me wrong, great run of results and some good displays but am I the only one who is alarmed at how awful we still look defensively at times.

Plymouth could have had three or four today despite having very little territory or possession .

Not one of our defenders can actually mark properly or track runners.

I guess the next two games will be the acid test but can we really sustain a promotion/playoff push with such poor defensive discipline? 

Correct. Not only yesterday. Watch the recent Stoke highlights where Gibson was totally rinsed (twice) by opposition attackers. It was frightening to watch. Any half decent team would have capitalised. If we do get top six we could get seriously damaged in the play offs by our  lumbering defence.

[hogesar 9,709]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I think Gibson is as bad as Sorensen to be honest. He’s good at passing the ball out but he consistently gets dragged towards the ball when crosses come in. Quite what he was doing for the chance they had late on in the game I don’t know. Just ran away from their player leaving him completely free and an easy through ball.

it’s telling that Kenny remains by far our most convincing CB this season. 

Gibson has been our best central defender. 

As for the game, realistically Plymouth were never going to score 3 or 4, they had an XG marginally above 1.

Ultimately Sorensen isn't a CB, demonstrated by, and disproving your point above, Gibson winning a higher % of both aerial and ground duels, interceptions, tackles...

[Sufyellow 222]

We are totally sacrificing defence for attack, at the moment it is working. The next 2 games are crucial,  will it work , I would try it still because I don't think anyone is great in this league. I hate all the people piling on McCallum,  he has obviously been told to play high attacking football,  he stretches the pitch to give others space, he can't then run back at full pelt to cover a counter attack,  that's down to the midfield and remaining defenders. Unfortunately if we did go up this tactic would get destroyed every week in the prem. 

[repman 635]

We're not good at defending but we've already seen what happens when we make that the focus instead of simply going out there and trying to win the game, it was how we played from October through to the new year. It was nearing on relegation form. There were mitigating circumstances, namely injuries, but the outcome was so much worse than it needed to be. 

When you go through our team the strengths are clearly going forward. We've got one of the best strikers in the league, a midfielder who scores + assists like no other and a quality winger (with another one coming back from injury hopefully). Add in Nunez and McLean as the anchors who help facilitate that and you'd put them on par with any team in the league, only Leeds are clearly better in my view. In Gunn we also have one of the best keepers in the league, generally you'd rather your keeper not have to make any saves, but we're best off running the risk and trusting him to do his job.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Hanley, Duffy and Gibson.

Keep one move the other two on. 

 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

6 hours ago, hogesar said:

Gibson has been our best central defender. 

As for the game, realistically Plymouth were never going to score 3 or 4, they had an XG marginally above 1.

Ultimately Sorensen isn't a CB, demonstrated by, and disproving your point above, Gibson winning a higher % of both aerial and ground duels, interceptions, tackles...

That is not saying much because defensively Gibson is hopeless.