Wagner has gone nuclear

[mastoola 202]

23 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Or alternatively he knows those in charge have his back, Right into next season 

will it always be next season?

[Google Bot 3,848]

I just don't get the hate he gets, just heard the interview on BBC sounds and so glad he's said something as it was really bizarre reaction as clear that a change so close to second half starting was related to player fitness.

He's spot on in what he says, he's earnt trust.  I just don't know what the **** goes on in supporters heads, without context Watford fans must've been wondering what the hell was going on considering we were 2-1 up.

It wasn't a few fans either, felt like a strong majority to me.  I just hope he brings the wins in now, or I can see this being the results that the haters wanted now he's bitten back.  

What a sad state of affairs, truly.  He and the players are only trying to his best for this club, he came into a cauldron following Smith and got everyone back on side.... I really just don't get it, he could win 5 and people would moan about the 6th being a defeat.

[HertsCanary93 223]

Something tells me a manager who is 5th in the form table and has just broken into the play-offs going into the final 3rd of the season isn't a dead man walking.

Edited February 13 by HertsCanary93

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,210]

First of all I did not boo.

Second, I did not chant "You don't know what you are doing"

Thirdly, I and others around me could see Sarge and Onel were struggling (Onel hurt himself after tangling with Lewis).

Personally I did not get why SVD was not a straight swap with Sarge.

Wagner is an idiot for leaping on the Delia minority train and having a go at supporters.

The fissure between the club and the fans is a Webber legacy..................

[Nik Vawn 342]

19 minutes ago, S_81 said:

As I said, it’s not helpful for the player(s) coming on. But I think the negative impact on the team is overplayed. Deliberately so by Wagner to detract from the criticism he should be owning. He should be saying he’s the boss, it’s his right, and he’ll be held accountable to it. Not hide behind nonsense about not supporting the team. It’s the same cheap rubbish Delia was spouting at the AGM. 
 

He is accountable….  They won 4-2

[S_81 1,051]

5 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Is that the issue then? You’re jealous of what they earn? If it isn’t that then it’s how it comes across. 

none of them are at fault for that by the way, we have a group of players who are fully with the manager by the looks of it as well. 
 

I would really stop digging if I was you 

I didn’t boo. I wouldn’t boo in that situation. But I’m clear who the boos are aimed at. And I think the impact on the team is overplayed. Deliberately by those in charge  

[Mason 47 1,855]

1 minute ago, Conrad said:

Ashton also suggested that Wagner is now on a slippery slope with regards to the fans. Don't criticise the fans. 

In fairness, Wagner knows he will not be here forever. I don't blame him in the slightest for having a go back, even if I don't agree with some of his decisions, his current points return is difficult to argue with.

I did wonder what the end-game of this disgruntled group of fans was going to be. When Webber was successfully hounded out, it seems now all we needed was to get rid of Wagner to fix the club. And after Wagner, all we need is to get rid of Delia. Then you just have to get rid of that Ben Gibson and the club will be saved. Then what? How long until the bedsheets come for Knapper?  Attanasio even?

[Conrad 223]

30 minutes ago, Nik Vawn said:

The players!

But do they? 

[Sufyellow 250]

35 minutes ago, Nik Vawn said:

Except he’s right!

No, he was wrong,  it was alot more than a small group. You don't tell them to stay away either,  tonight it looked like a couple thousand paying customers had already decided to stay away.  

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

1 minute ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

First of all I did not boo.

Second, I did not chant "You don't know what you are doing"

Thirdly, I and others around me could see Sarge and Onel were struggling (Onel hurt himself after tangling with Lewis).

Personally I did not get why SVD was not a straight swap with Sarge.

Wagner is an idiot for leaping on the Delia minority train and having a go at supporters.

The fissure between the club and the fans is a Webber legacy..................

Then you're clearly not one of the people he's talking about and don't want to be one of the people he's talking about. So why are you taking against him in favour of the people he was talking about?

[East Rider 585]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There's no 'should' . He has every right to say what he wants. Those people angry that he's said it are most likely the ones who have been the problem the last two seasons.

He certainly does have every right to say what he wants, but should he have said it? I'm not so sure. It may have been better just to point out to the boo boys that they are not aways right, as in this case. Feel he has just made a bad situation a whole lot worse

[Nik Vawn 342]

1 minute ago, Conrad said:

But do they? 

You and I have seen teams where the players don’t play for the manager, that’s not happening here, we are on a good run

[Rupethebear 29]

Wagner be careful what you wish for, if we all stayed at home half the STs would be unsold.

The booing was done by a large number of fans, even in The Jarrod, and was in relation to who came on not who went off.

 

[S_81 1,051]

5 minutes ago, Nik Vawn said:

He is accountable….  They won 4-2

Exactly - so say ‘it’s clear I know what I’m doing. We won. We are 6th. If my decisions don’t work then it’s on me’. Leave it at that. 

[Nik Vawn 342]

3 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

No, he was wrong,  it was alot more than a small group. You don't tell them to stay away either,  tonight it looked like a couple thousand paying customers had already decided to stay away.  

Yep I did, in Tenerife as it happens but glad to say Canary TV works a treat out here. Did the heavy rain in Norfolk affect the attendance I wonder? 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,211]

34 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Wagner knows he's not turning around fan opinion so he's just saying what he thinks. He knows he's not going to be Knapper's man so he's not even trying to build bridges.

This will get thrown straight back in his face the moment we're behind in a game. You know, causing a snowballing bad atmosphere in the ground.

 

How can anybody who starts booing and getting on the manager's/players backs the moment we go behind even remotely be considered to be a supporter?

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,808]

8 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

First of all I did not boo.

Second, I did not chant "You don't know what you are doing"

Thirdly, I and others around me could see Sarge and Onel were struggling (Onel hurt himself after tangling with Lewis).

Personally I did not get why SVD was not a straight swap with Sarge.

Wagner is an idiot for leaping on the Delia minority train and having a go at supporters.

The fissure between the club and the fans is a Webber legacy..................

All of this seconded

[Sufyellow 250]

35 minutes ago, Darth Vadis said:

The booing was pathetic & cringe-worthy. I think Wagner was spot on with what he said - probably the first time I've agreed with something he's done all season! 

So you want another 5000 to stay away ? Yes have a go back , that's fine , but you don't tell fans to stay away. There was probably 23 thousand there tonight. So let's go back to 18 or 19 thousand?

[S_81 1,051]

Just now, Sufyellow said:

So you want another 5000 to stay away ? Yes have a go back , that's fine , but you don't tell fans to stay away. There was probably 23 thousand there tonight. So let's go back to 18 or 19 thousand?

I agree. He didn’t need to go that far. It was a stupid thing to say. But Delia will no doubt love him for it 

[S_81 1,051]

2 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

How can anybody who starts booing and getting on the manager's/players backs the moment we go behind even remotely be considered to be a supporter?

Because (and I say this as someone who didn’t boo) the booing was of his decisions - very similar to which cost us two points just on Saturday. It wasn’t booing the team. 

[Conrad 223]

4 minutes ago, Nik Vawn said:

Yep I did, in Tenerife as it happens but glad to say Canary TV works a treat out here. Did the heavy rain in Norfolk affect the attendance I wonder? 

Heavy rain? Just a normal day. 😂☔

[Google Bot 3,848]

3 minutes ago, Rupethebear said:

The booing was done by a large number of fans, even in The Jarrod, and was in relation to who came on not who went off.

So if it was Barnes going off there would've been the same number boos?  That's BS mate.

It was fear through what happened at the QPR match and people afraid of throwing the match away.  But this should show people that they need to have more faith in these decisions, particularly the timing of it is clearly a change based around player wellbeing, it wasn't some kind of tactical change.

Plus anyone claiming it was defensive needs to consider how much better we looked after the subs where we had 4 players pushing in offensive areas, and Sara looked much livelier moving forwards up the pitch.  And Fasi scored the goal that took us into 6th place on GD.

[chicken 3,045]

40 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

It's all about trust. He didn't have mine before the game, he earnt zero during the game, he hasn't recovered any after the game.

Who trusts Wagner?

 

This trust thing, like respect, is false. It's a false argument. Not only that, but in this situation, it can sound very entitled.

Trust/respect isn't just earned. When you first meet someone, if you are a decent human being you don't give them zero trust/respect.

Yes, you don't give them 100% but you certainly don't give them zero.

Unfortunately that is exactly what some fans do. Wagner started out being 'the easy option', in other words with zero.

The demand was more attacking football than Smith, he largely delivered. It was clear our squad of mainly youngsters needed experience. We added that. But it had to be on a budget.

The chap has been on an absolute hiding to nothing from some folks and never given the respect of a clean slate.

Now we're in the play-offs and the players are clearly playing for him?

I'm not sure suggesting he needs to earn your trust or respect is putting across the message you should be wanting to put across.

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

Whether you're supporting the team or undermining it, tonight just shows how unpopular he is.

I mean how do you actually move forward with him here?

If you like it then great, but personally I find it pretty disappointing.

Season ticket rnls out tomorrow for those who actually support the club.

 

[Monty13 2,710]

51 minutes ago, rock bus said:

Don’t see why not, he’s entitled to say what he thinks if they feel it’s ok to boo.

he’s right it doesn’t help the players or the team.

I think fair play to him for sticking up for himself and his players 

All of this is true, it’s also true it’s not going to help in any way. Imagine it’s quite cathartic though, fair play.

[Branston Pickle 4,116]

6 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

How can anybody who starts booing and getting on the manager's/players backs the moment we go behind even remotely be considered to be a supporter?

Absolutely.  I’ve said this regularly  - it is oh so easy to clap and cheer when things are going well, but surely it is when things aren’t going so well that the team needs the support more, not less.

The idea that “supporters” will wait for us to lose to give it the big un back at him is quite probably true, but also utterly counter productive.  

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

Season ticket rnls out tomorrow for those who actually support the club.

Haha, that aspect of it hadn't struck me. Interesting marketing ploy for the coach to tell people not to bother turning up the day before ST renewals...

[chicken 3,045]

8 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Because (and I say this as someone who didn’t boo) the booing was of his decisions - very similar to which cost us two points just on Saturday. It wasn’t booing the team. 

It is though, by default.

If you boo the choice of who is coming on, then that player is going to know their own crowd is hostile to them being on the pitch, that they feel there are better players to be bringing on, that they can't change the game and win it.

You are never just booing the decision. You are booing the player coming on too. The decision is the choice of player and why. The boos are because people think they know better.

 

Edited February 13 by chicken

[Thirsty Lizard 3,211]

4 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Because (and I say this as someone who didn’t boo) the booing was of his decisions - very similar to which cost us two points just on Saturday. It wasn’t booing the team. 

Your reply is totally irrelevant to the point I was making - read the part of KieranShikari's post that I highlighted and what I said about it. If Kieran is really saying that people will start turning on the team every time we go behind in a game then I don't see how such people can call themselves supporters. This is a different (although related) debate to the one about booing the substitutions tonight.

[shefcanary 2,901]

We are reaching a decisive schism now.

Rightly lots of supporters on here and in the ground are proud of the club, where it has come from and thus are accepting that sometimes things do not always go as you expect.

People also on here have rightly noted that there are a number of fans who have been supporting Norwich now only since 2010. For some that isn't that long (I've been supporting myself since 1969), but for those fans it applies to, it will seem a pretty long time. And it has largely been a period when we've spent as much time in the EPL as the EFL. And it is a time when they have come to expect a minimum standard of football to watch. And they have not seen it now for a relatively long part of that 14 year period. This has left them, having known and experienced what it can be like, very frustrated.

You can say they are being entitled about it, but that is THEIR expectation. And unfortunately everyone at the club has to acknowledge that. You cannot undo that feeling by pointing out to them what it was like back in the 60's and 70's. They won't understand that, nor want to experience it. 

But, there is a large part of the supporter base whose expectations are raised. They want EPL, they want Norwich to hold their own, they cannot see why it should any other way. 

Entitlement you say. But not in their eyes. It is what they have known and what they expect. 

Currently they do not trust the manager to meet their expectation. They will take any opportunity to let him know this. If he wants to berate them for doing so, it solves nothing.

In their eyes it is as if it were Liverpool trying to get back to the EPL from the EFL. They have no concept of little old Norwich any more. We are the biggest club in the East of England and should be dining at the top table with the likes of the dastardly big 6/7. 

Now where does the future of the club lie? With those supporters who shrug their shoulders and say it has ever been thus. Or this demanding new set of supporters who are desperate for consistently better performances, so desperate they even boo the manager over his decisions when we're winning.

Most on here won't like it, but our new incoming owner won't side with the "shoulder shruggers". He will side with those demanding the consistently better performances. 

I didn't boo today, but I was certainly unhappy with a very inconsistent performance from the team, which I lay at the feet of the manager. And no doubt the man from Milwaukee will do too. I have a feeling that Wagner will have to find a way to produce better 90 minute performances after today's farrago before the season is out, or else he will be gone.