Wagner and Huddersfield

[Bradwell canary 109]

I seem to recall that in the year Huddersfield won promotion to the PL, they were the best team to visit Carrow Road that season.

Wagner was the manager, so then he was capable of producing a team that played enjoyable football to watch.

So what has changed in him to produce such dire entertainment here?

Is it, lack of decent players, or under orders, too cautious,  lack of confidence, goodness only knows.

But something in him has been lost since then, doubt his self belief will ever be restored while he remains here

[Ulfotto 640]

I can’t believe that after the last 2 and a half seasons people expect more from this squad. We are a mid table championship squad end of.

 

[Bigbrenn 61]

I think lesser managers or coach's get 'found out'.

The ability needed to lift them above the norm is to adapt for injuries, bad runs, poor players etc. Wagner, to me , is a one hit wonder.

The owners of the club might feel that with the right backing, he could come good again but football evolves and you adapt or die . 

[pete 320]

Just look at his recent record gets worse as long as it goes.  What was Webber thinking, wishful thinking that he could be a success.

[TheBaldOne66 693]

As Pete said you just have to look at his last two jobs. He seemed the right fit for Huddersfield just as Lambert was when he came here. 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

10 minutes ago, Bradwell canary said:

I seem to recall that in the year Huddersfield won promotion to the PL, they were the best team to visit Carrow Road that season.

They got promoted with a negative goal difference.

I'd be interested to know whether any other team has ever been promoted with a negative goal difference.

They also finished the regular season with 10 points in their last 10 games, and scored 1 goal in the 3 play off games (not counting penalty shoot outs).

I actually remember them as being one of the least inspiring promoted teams ever, and I presume all pressure being off for the following season went a long way towards helping them to stay up (Luton perhaps benefitting from that zero expectation this season).

 

[Peregrine Shorts 320]

he also had Aaron Mooy in midfield

[Robert N. LiM 4,427]

I still have it in my head that a decent CDM could unlock this team. Trouble is, I suspect a decent CDM doesn't really exist, that it's a mythical creature like a griffin or Peter Crouch.

[Robert N. LiM 4,427]

1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

I'd be interested to know whether any other team has ever been promoted with a negative goal difference.

NCFC finished 3rd in the inaugural Premier League with a negative goal difference, so it's definitely possible.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

3 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

As Pete said you just have to look at his last two jobs. He seemed the right fit for Huddersfield just as Lambert was when he came here. 

Yeah the parallels with Lambert are stark. Right club, right manager, right time but never to be recreated afterwards.

[Gordon Bennett 787]

3 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

I can’t believe that after the last 2 and a half seasons people expect more from this squad. We are a mid table championship squad end of.

Not for me. With a better coach this squad should be properly challenging for the top six

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

NCFC finished 3rd in the inaugural Premier League with a negative goal difference, so it's definitely possible.

Which still remains the highest finishing position in English football by a team with a minus goal difference and a record we are not likely to ever lose.

 

 

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

3 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

They got promoted with a negative goal difference.

I'd be interested to know whether any other team has ever been promoted with a negative goal difference.

They also finished the regular season with 10 points in their last 10 games, and scored 1 goal in the 3 play off games (not counting penalty shoot outs).

I actually remember them as being one of the least inspiring promoted teams ever, and I presume all pressure being off for the following season went a long way towards helping them to stay up (Luton perhaps benefitting from that zero expectation this season).

 

Dreadful run, along come Norwich….

[repman 635]

3 hours ago, Bradwell canary said:

I seem to recall that in the year Huddersfield won promotion to the PL, they were the best team to visit Carrow Road that season.

Wagner was the manager, so then he was capable of producing a team that played enjoyable football to watch.

So what has changed in him to produce such dire entertainment here?

Is it, lack of decent players, or under orders, too cautious,  lack of confidence, goodness only knows.

But something in him has been lost since then, doubt his self belief will ever be restored while he remains here

The two sides automatically promoted that year were managed by Rafa Benitez and Chris Hughton. 

Back then Huddersfield got by through pretty much pressing alone. They were the clear continuity from Klopp’s Dortmund team but you just have to look at what Klopp’s Liverpool teams to see that football has changed. They still press superbly but their true success began when they became an excellent in possession team too. 

Every side in the top 6 right now is good both on and off the ball, and only one is managed by someone who was a manager in 16/17 (Farke, who was still basically in youth football too). I don’t doubt Wagner has attempted to do these things but I think he’s simply out of step with the modern game. 

[TIL 1010 4,766]

4 minutes ago, repman said:

The two sides automatically promoted that year were managed by Rafa Benitez and Chris Hughton. 

 

I mentioned on another thread the other day that in the two play off semi final games v Sheff Wed Huddersfield managed one goal courtesy of an own goal and then failed to score in the final v Reading. 0-0, 1-1 and 0-0 with penalties getting them up.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

5 hours ago, Peregrine Shorts said:

he also had Aaron Mooy in midfield

When we appointed Wagner I had a look at Huddersfield's highlights from their promotion and survival seasons. Mooy was involved with nearly every goal in some way and I'm not exaggerating. If he didn't score it or play the final pass he either started the move or delivered the set piece. Without him they wouldn't have done anything.

They did look good when they came to CR but we were the perfect team to play for them with their wing focused high pressing style . We were a less than fully committed side suffering from a bad relegation hangover who were very vulnerable in the FB areas under Neil and they just out-worked us and tore us apart on the wings. They weren't like that every game that year and they usually played like the underdogs in games and won a lot of games by a single goal. 

Saying that though we've never much looked like Wagner's Huddersfield and I don't think Wagner has really tried to set us up that way either. 

Edited January 8 by Christoph Stiepermann

[repman 635]

4 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I mentioned on another thread the other day that in the two play off semi final games v Sheff Wed Huddersfield managed one goal courtesy of an own goal and then failed to score in the final v Reading. 0-0, 1-1 and 0-0 with penalties getting them up.

Yes it’s fair to point out that Huddersfield were hardly an electric team that year, they scored 3 goals in a game 4 times all season! We’ve done it 5 times this year while being a worse side.

The 3-0 defeat that night made them look more exciting mainly down to how dull we had become, a squad filled with players who had been successful with us before but weren’t going to be in the future. Of the starting XI that night only Tettey, Klose and McGovern would be part of our next promotion squad but even by the end of 18/19 both Tettey and Klose has been supplanted by others.

[Ulfotto 640]

Lots of comments saying Huddersfield rode their luck. Spoiler he did keep them up the following season. 

[Ulfotto 640]

9 minutes ago, repman said:

Yes it’s fair to point out that Huddersfield were hardly an electric team that year, they scored 3 goals in a game 4 times all season! We’ve done it 5 times this year while being a worse side.

The 3-0 defeat that night made them look more exciting mainly down to how dull we had become, a squad filled with players who had been successful with us before but weren’t going to be in the future. Of the starting XI that night only Tettey, Klose and McGovern would be part of our next promotion squad but even by the end of 18/19 both Tettey and Klose has been supplanted by others.

How dull we had become 3 days later we beat Reading 7-1 and we scored 85 goals that year the most in the championship. 

[repman 635]

35 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

How dull we had become 3 days later we beat Reading 7-1 and we scored 85 goals that year the most in the championship. 

We made 7 changes from the team that lost. Maybe dull was the wrong word but there's no doubt Huddersfield made us look like a team of the past.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

Ask Paul Lambert he will tell you the Answer 

He was the same with us everything he touched worked ,

Since then  the same as Wagner ,

Right time , Right Backroom Staff , Right Players ,

Webber was never the Same after Farke and Keiran scott left 

[S_81 816]

5 hours ago, Bradwell canary said:

I seem to recall that in the year Huddersfield won promotion to the PL, they were the best team to visit Carrow Road that season.

Wagner was the manager, so then he was capable of producing a team that played enjoyable football to watch.

So what has changed in him to produce such dire entertainment here?

Is it, lack of decent players, or under orders, too cautious,  lack of confidence, goodness only knows.

But something in him has been lost since then, doubt his self belief will ever be restored while he remains here

It was going wrong for him long before he came here. 

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

Didn't they get promoted scoring the least amount of goals ever? I just think he probably had a better defence with them.

[canarybubbles 1,924]

Although I think Wagner definitely needs to go, I doubt if he is as poor a manager as he has looked here. Basically for the second half of last season and half of this, he has had to chase an unlikely promotion via the play-offs rather than think long-term, in my opinion because Webber wanted to leave the club in a blaze of glory saying he had left us in the PL, rather than do his job properly and consider the long-term good of the club. For me, this is the only explanation for the hiring of so many geriatrics - Webber must have known that if it didn't work, we were going to be stuck with an ageing, demotivated squad which we couldn't shift and which would drag down the club for the mid-term future. In my opinion, he has recruited and planned for the benefit of his own career, not for NCFC, and the fact that we gave him a guard of honour makes me want to vomit.

In retrospect, as much as I dislike Smith and question Wagner's tactical awareness, I think the job of replacing Farke was a poisoned chalice.

[SteveN8458 64]

20 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

I can’t believe that after the last 2 and a half seasons people expect more from this squad. We are a mid table championship squad end of.

 

BUT, there is no reason why they cant try to play football, it's their job after all!!

[king canary 7,624]

17 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

Lots of comments saying Huddersfield rode their luck. Spoiler he did keep them up the following season. 

They clear did ride some luck though- they won 22 games by a single goal that season. 

[Capt. Pants 4,262]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

Although I think Wagner definitely needs to go, I doubt if he is as poor a manager as he has looked here. Basically for the second half of last season and half of this, he has had to chase an unlikely promotion via the play-offs rather than think long-term, in my opinion because Webber wanted to leave the club in a blaze of glory saying he had left us in the PL, rather than do his job properly and consider the long-term good of the club. For me, this is the only explanation for the hiring of so many geriatrics - Webber must have known that if it didn't work, we were going to be stuck with an ageing, demotivated squad which we couldn't shift and which would drag down the club for the mid-term future. In my opinion, he has recruited and planned for the benefit of his own career, not for NCFC, and the fact that we gave him a guard of honour makes me want to vomit.

In retrospect, as much as I dislike Smith and question Wagner's tactical awareness, I think the job of replacing Farke was a poisoned chalice.

Smith was hired to keep us in the EPL and if that didn't work he was best placed to get us back up. It didn't work, the football was terrible.

Wagner was hired to improve the football and consolidate a play-off position. We're only broadly competitive at the top end of the table, the football is terrible.

Yes, a poison chalice to follow Farke but crikey are we making a mess of it. Time for change. 

[Feedthewolf 4,861]

16 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Ask Paul Lambert he will tell you the Answer 

He was the same with us everything he touched worked ,

Since then  the same as Wagner ,

Right time , Right Backroom Staff , Right Players ,

Webber was never the Same after Farke and Keiran scott left 

I think a lot of people underestimate the impact Kieran Scott had on our successes under Webber and Farke.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think a lot of people underestimate the impact Kieran Scott had on our successes under Webber and Farke.

i think the 3 made a Fantastic team ,

as was proved but as soon as one Cog went the machine broke down 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,169]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

They clear did ride some luck though- they won 22 games by a single goal that season. 

Scoring more goals than the opposition is the object of the game. Bit weird to call that 'luck'.