Sara, is his talent being wasted?

[Bradwell canary 109]

Seems to me playing him so deep is not using his outstanding talent to his full potential.

Managers decisions  these days completely baffles me, he must have a death wish.

Leaving Sara there, leaving our leading scorer on the bench, then tries to qualify that in the newspaper today  with words that are beyond belief.

Putting Gibson in, who should never be even in the match day squad. 
That carthourse Barnes rather than Idah, shows favouritism at its worst.

This season is already done and dusted. I can only conclude the new sporting director has  a massive problem clearing up after his predecessor mess over the pass couple of seasons. Just hope he has the bottle to make his presence felt during the transfer window.

 

 

 

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

Yes , there is a 12-15 goal a season midfielder there if he was allowed to play further forward and not be asked to be ball winning on the edge of his own box or dropping deep to pick the ball up from the back 4

[cambridgeshire canary 6,748]

Been saying it ever since he got shafted to playing further back. He should be our Stiepermann

[Kingston Yellow 220]

53 minutes ago, Bradwell canary said:

Seems to me playing him so deep is not using his outstanding talent to his full potential.

Managers decisions  these days completely baffles me, he must have a death wish.

Leaving Sara there, leaving our leading scorer on the bench, then tries to qualify that in the newspaper today  with words that are beyond belief.

Putting Gibson in, who should never be even in the match day squad. 
That carthourse Barnes rather than Idah, shows favouritism at its worst.

This season is already done and dusted. I can only conclude the new sporting director has  a massive problem clearing up after his predecessor mess over the pass couple of seasons. Just hope he has the bottle to make his presence felt during the transfer window.

 

 

 

 

Agree with everything you say, but whatever Knapper does / doesn’t do is within the context of the ridiculous situation he finds himself in; where his predecessor is married to a senior executive at the club and where the majority shareholder recently assured Wagner that his job was safe and used the AGM to sob over the departure of his predecessor.  

It’s a disgrace and a complete joke. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Kingston Yellow

[Capt. Pants 4,255]

Smith never really knew where to play him either. Do we have a midfielder who is neither one thing or another? I mean he's not particularly quick across the ground, quite weak in the tackle for a chunky lad, not athletic enough to be box to box. His passing range is pretty good but to get the best from that he's better a bit deeper or a free role? Do we need  another Stierpermann when we don't have a Pukki?

[Conrad 170]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Smith never really knew where to play him either. Do we have a midfielder who is neither one thing or another? I mean he's not particularly quick across the ground, quite weak in the tackle for a chunky lad, not athletic enough to be box to box. His passing range is pretty good but to get the best from that he's better a bit deeper or a free role? Do we need  another Stierpermann when we don't have a Pukki?

This is a concern that I also have. Do we have a player in Sara that will never fit well into a system of play, whatever that system may be? 

[Midlands Yellow 4,009]

He’s no Kenny but is worth £10/20m more. If only he could tackle!!! 

[Capt. Pants 4,255]

7 minutes ago, Conrad said:

This is a concern that I also have. Do we have a player in Sara that will never fit well into a system of play, whatever that system may be? 

I really don't know. Maybe someone on here with a bit of tactical nous can explain in what system he would thrive as I'm not sure playing him further forward where arguably he has less space would bring out the best of him either. We've got Nunez as well who doesn't seem to fit very well either but that's another thread!

[BroadstairsR 2,183]

Just include the waste of this talent along with all the other wastage that has plagued this club in recent seasons:

Waste of several opportunities to become a Premier League club for at least more than one season at a time.

Waste of all that PL television money and more recently parachute money.

Waste of one of the highest wages bills in the current Championship yet languishing 13th. place.

Waste of the wonderful training facility that at Colney, now the wonderfully named Lotus Training Centre and even, dare I say it, the expensive Bot advertised as :

"Another key improvement in the installation of a brand new SoccerBot360 system, which has now been in place for the past 2 seasons. Norwich City are the first club in the UK to have this system, which uses a 360-degree projector screen and computer programmes to test players on a variety of cognitive, scanning, and passing skills in a controlled environment."

but which has seemingly had little impact.

Waste of opportunities for ground expansion and improvement upon the embarrassing and deteriorating Main Stand., and with it the probable wastage of no small amount of future support as youngsters are never able to acquire the Carrow Road Saturday habit and turn to other ways to spend this time.

Waste of the wonderful fixed support that it will always have, but which does however seem on the decline if not totally disillusioned at this moment in time.

Need I go on?

Edited December 30, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Indy 3,307]

Trouble might be he’s thinking the same and may want to force a transfer to a better suited club & style!

[The Real Buh 3,445]

Massively wasted, like playing Wes Hoolahan at Center back, but you aren’t allowed to say that he’s being wasted because Wagner is a lovely man and Delia likes to tickle his little beard, it’s all a big old situation.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

3 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Massively wasted, like playing Wes Hoolahan at Center back, but you aren’t allowed to say that he’s being wasted because Wagner is a lovely man and Delia likes to tickle his little beard, it’s all a big old situation.

He should be at very least eclipsing Gustavo Hamer at Coventry last season , who got 9 goals and 6 assists, which was enough to earn him a premier league move

That is of course he wants to stay in England, Spain or Italy maybe his next preferred destination

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

Yes 

[Midlands Yellow 4,009]

It’s so obvious, play him in goal. 

[Unthink road 132]

Down to the player himself to prove he is quality. British football is very different to South America. Has so much potential, but some of his play this season feels lacking. His passing is hit and miss. Question his midfield duties. For me I'm surprised he's so well thought of. Hope he shows, what I think his talent is capable of. 

[astro 362]

I think he’s been much better with Nunez beside him. He does make some very intelligent runs when further forward, but due to our negative passing mindset, his run is more than often wasted. 

[repman 635]

Pretty much every attacking player is being wasted at the minute, we're lucky that Sara and Rowe in particular have produced the moments of quality that they have when they're feeding off scraps week in week out.

[hurricane 21]

I think him and Nunez are both better further up and can unlock defences to create chances. Wasted hanging around the center of defence or on the halfway line with all that side to side passing. 

[Petriix 2,847]

Yes, it's absolutely clear to me that the talent we do have is being sacrificed on the altar of 'athleticism'; A paradigm where Hernandez is picked for his pace and hard work when he lacks the skill to perform at this level.

I find it hard to comprehend how long we've persevered with two strikers while giving up so much control in midfield while every successful team focuses on winning that central battle while getting their 'weapons' into scoring positions. Sara is a dangerous player and should be operating as a 10 who drops deep rather than an 8 who gets forwards. 

It's similar with Rowe being asked to run himself into the ground every game, up and down the pitch in both attack and defence. If he was playing in a narrower role with a number 10 then the workload would be massively reduced, leaving him enough energy to make more telling contributions at the crucial moments.

While I think we're generally lacking a bit of skill in the squad, imagine how our first choice players would do in Farke's 4-2-3-1 with Rowe, Sara and Sainz behind Sargent; Nunez paired with a new CDM and McLean along side Hanley in defence; Idah as super-sub... That would be a decent team.

 

[hogesar 9,704]

11 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Yes, it's absolutely clear to me that the talent we do have is being sacrificed on the altar of 'athleticism'; A paradigm where Hernandez is picked for his pace and hard work when he lacks the skill to perform at this level.

I find it hard to comprehend how long we've persevered with two strikers while giving up so much control in midfield while every successful team focuses on winning that central battle while getting their 'weapons' into scoring positions. Sara is a dangerous player and should be operating as a 10 who drops deep rather than an 8 who gets forwards. 

It's similar with Rowe being asked to run himself into the ground every game, up and down the pitch in both attack and defence. If he was playing in a narrower role with a number 10 then the workload would be massively reduced, leaving him enough energy to make more telling contributions at the crucial moments.

While I think we're generally lacking a bit of skill in the squad, imagine how our first choice players would do in Farke's 4-2-3-1 with Rowe, Sara and Sainz behind Sargent; Nunez paired with a new CDM and McLean along side Hanley in defence; Idah as super-sub... That would be a decent team.

 

Hard to disagree with much of this, Petriix. 

I do think Sara plays in more attacking positions than people think. He doesn't end up being a DLP, and often ends up in good positions but I thought he was lazy with his passing and took the safe option far too often. The manager has to take some responsibility because it's his job to get the player performing.

 

This is vs Millwall. It's a bit deeper than you'd like but a 20% adjustment and suddenly it's about as attacking as you'd like him to be. I don't think Barnes offers enough to consistently play that weird fake 10 role that ends up being a second striker. 

After we spent the last prem season trying to build a team to play it and Farke obviously not rating it I really do think this team suits a 4-3-3 yet we never play it.

I think if you had a midfield of Nunez, Sara, Gibbs / Mclean you've got more midfield options more passing options and still giving license to Rowe and Sainz without quite so much work tracking back as the midfields can cover fullback areas more effectively.

[repman 635]

Just now, hogesar said:

Hard to disagree with much of this, Petriix. 

I do think Sara plays in more attacking positions than people think. He doesn't end up being a DLP, and often ends up in good positions but I thought he was lazy with his passing and took the safe option far too often. The manager has to take some responsibility because it's his job to get the player performing.

 

This is vs Millwall. It's a bit deeper than you'd like but a 20% adjustment and suddenly it's about as attacking as you'd like him to be. I don't think Barnes offers enough to consistently play that weird fake 10 role that ends up being a second striker. 

After we spent the last prem season trying to build a team to play it and Farke obviously not rating it I really do think this team suits a 4-3-3 yet we never play it.

I think if you had a midfield of Nunez, Sara, Gibbs / Mclean you've got more midfield options more passing options and still giving license to Rowe and Sainz without quite so much work tracking back as the midfields can cover fullback areas more effectively.

The problem is that Sara rarely gets the ball high up the pitch against anything but a settled defence. He's having lots of the ball higher up the pitch but when there's 10 opposition players in front of him you're asking him to pick the lock. 

Barnes' goal vs Sheff Wed where Sara played the ball through to Sainz is perhaps an example of what he could do if given the chance of playing higher up, he plays a ball in behind he rarely gets the opportunity to do because there isn't the space in behind for him to exploit. 

I think it's a wider issue too that we aren't good at build up in the first place, Sara/Nunez/McLean are almost certainly the best options at this role and if they can't do it then I don't think anyone else in the squad could. That comes back to a coaching issue, we used the 2 false nines to great success but once teams started pushing an extra defender into midfield we found it much harder to play through.  

 

[Canary Jedi 579]

The question applies to most of our players sadly. 

[canarybubbles 1,924]

13 hours ago, Conrad said:

This is a concern that I also have. Do we have a player in Sara that will never fit well into a system of play, whatever that system may be? 

Well, to make a judgement call on that, we'd first have to see him in a system of play.

[ron obvious 1,513]

How about a rotating midfield of Gibbs/Sara/Nunez, Kenny at CB (I think the Kenny/ Nunez thing works really well), Rowe & Sainz wide attackers with one of Sarge/Hwang/Idah up front? I think Gibbs has the energy & all round game to fit in with such a flexible system - they'd need to be well coached into covering each other though.

Edited December 31, 2023 by ron obvious

[sgncfc 1,233]

Personally I'd try to copy Brighton's system. They have made Dunk an England CB by playing (largely) a 5-2-2-1 but they interchange so much it moves into 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 when needed. But you have to have a player or two can track and tackle - I don't know if that is a CDM, but it's a role for a player we don't have. Gibbs is probably the closest but Wagner thinks he's a striker. Mclean is the next best but without him at CB we lack any kind of ability to move the ball.

We have to find a way to get our best players in the team - that doesn't include Hernandez, Fassnacht, Gibson, Giannoulis or Idah in my opinion. They may have great stats, but their contributions in reality are simply woeful.

 

[Harry53 209]

This thread is expanding to other players positions,  so I was thinking how good Kenny would be a a winger. Fast, skilful,  and always probing for an opening to shoot. If we changed the midfield and he is left without a position,  wouldn't it be worth a try?

[Harry53 209]

2 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Personally I'd try to copy Brighton's system. They have made Dunk an England CB by playing (largely) a 5-2-2-1 but they interchange so much it moves into 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 when needed. But you have to have a player or two can track and tackle - I don't know if that is a CDM, but it's a role for a player we don't have. Gibbs is probably the closest but Wagner thinks he's a striker. Mclean is the next best but without him at CB we lack any kind of ability to move the ball.

We have to find a way to get our best players in the team - that doesn't include Hernandez, Fassnacht, Gibson, Giannoulis or Idah in my opinion. They may have great stats, but their contributions in reality are simply woeful.

 

As far as I can see when the opposition have the ball we just mark space and let them do whatever they want. Tackling,  closing down,  doesn't seem to be what Wagner wants. 

It's quite pathetic to watch and so annoying

[Nuff Said 5,146]

20 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Personally I'd try to copy Brighton's system. They have made Dunk an England CB by playing (largely) a 5-2-2-1 but they interchange so much it moves into 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 when needed. But you have to have a player or two can track and tackle - I don't know if that is a CDM, but it's a role for a player we don't have. Gibbs is probably the closest but Wagner thinks he's a striker. Mclean is the next best but without him at CB we lack any kind of ability to move the ball.

We have to find a way to get our best players in the team - that doesn't include Hernandez, Fassnacht, Gibson, Giannoulis or Idah in my opinion. They may have great stats, but their contributions in reality are simply woeful.

 

You had me until you said Giannoullis and in particular Idah are “simply woeful”. There’s even a reasonable case to be made for Gibson, he’s definitely not as bad as people have decided he is.

Idah has six goals in twelve starts this season, is still only 22 and getting better and better.

[Nuff Said 5,146]

20 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

This thread is expanding to other players positions,  so I was thinking how good Kenny would be a a winger. Fast, skilful,  and always probing for an opening to shoot. If we changed the midfield and he is left without a position,  wouldn't it be worth a try?

I’ve said it before, if we had a cloning machine, we could play 11 McLeans. 
Although I think this forum would then spontaneously combust.

[Europe_93 11]

17 hours ago, Petriix said:

..... imagine how our first choice players would do in Farke's 4-2-3-1 with Rowe, Sara and Sainz behind Sargent; Nunez paired with a new CDM and McLean along side Hanley in defence; Idah as super-sub... That would be a decent team.

 

Rowe, Sara and Sainz is what I have been wanting to see all season.  With those attacking players on the field the full backs could be more focused on defending duties in general play and not (both at the same time) so high and wide, leaving us exposed in transition.  Then with midfielders filling a more natural space hopefully they would be willing to take the ball - whereas now, no one is looking for it.  How many times from goal kicks do we go Duffy, Stacey - punt down the line to Rowe, touchline on his one side, defender at his back happy to go through him and no support if he does get it under