match thread *official lappinitup match thread Baggies V Canaries*

[Jim Smith 2,339]

4 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Wagner was never going to be right whatever subs, but they look sensible.

Great to see Hanley back.

They weren’t sensible. You need a treat on the break. His tactics are just stick everyone behind the ball. It’s literally schoolboy tactics 

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

Take McClean out of the defence and we immediately concede 😜

[Orly 277]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

No two events on a football pitch are the same, and every referee has a different level of tolerance for dissent and backchat. It's literally impossible for rules to objectively be applied consistently. Of course you can find inconsistencies even in the same referee's decisions in the same game, because they have to analyse things in a split second and then make the 'right' call.

Unfortunately the partiality of supporters coupled with the the human brain's negativity bias and the importance of every key decision mean that the average fan will always think referees are sh*t/biased/inconsistent.

that's a lot of words to agree that the referee got it wrong.

[Bomber 50]

6 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Referees in this country are incompetent. Pure and simple.

We witness it regularly in the Premier League, where every decision is double checked by VAR in slow-motion, using state of the art technology, by a team of four VAR officials.

And they still get it wrong.

It official he waved an imaginery card so that is a booking - everyone knows that so its his own fault and no complaints - now one down so thanks Sainz

[Pyro Pete 1,918]

1 minute ago, Spillay said:

Well that was a complete waste of an hour. Feel for the City fans there today 😞 

Yes, but at least they get to leave the West Midlands at full time. Unlike the WBA fans.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,856]

4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

No two events on a football pitch are the same, and every referee has a different level of tolerance for dissent and backchat. It's literally impossible for rules to objectively be applied consistently. Of course you can find inconsistencies even in the same referee's decisions in the same game, because they have to analyse things in a split second and then make the 'right' call.

Unfortunately the partiality of supporters coupled with the the human brain's negativity bias and the importance of every key decision mean that the average fan will always think referees are sh*t/biased/inconsistent.

And it's that sort of mentality which leads to the incidents we've seen in Turkey recently. The lack of respect towards referees is disgusting and somehow needs to be fixed.

[pete 320]

After all the teeth gnashing over Sainz stupidity.  You have something to complain about now.  New defensive actions by Wagner soon proved to be nulligfied.

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

They've got discretion at the end of the day. He made an extreme decision he didn't have to. W*nker of a referee. To hell with him,.

Agree that it would have been way more sensible to call him over, call Kenny over as captain, and give him a final warning.

But Sainz isn't blameless, it's an idiotic thing to do even to give the ref the opportunity to give him a second yellow.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

Just now, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

And it's that sort of mentality which leads to the incidents we've seen in Turkey recently. The lack of respect towards referees is disgusting and somehow needs to be fixed.

If it's to be fixed then they need to exercise that sort of discipline consistently, not arbitrarily when they feel like it. Being arbitrary is contemptible.

Edited December 26, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Helsinki canary 243]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

3 big central defenders, can't deal with a simple cross into the box.

Dreadful decisions by Wagner yet agaim.

The weakness has been at LB today and Macallum should of been hooked not the two attackers , Kenny should of gone to LB and either Hanley or Bahtt to CB , crazy playing 5 at the back with no outlet 

[mannings bandy legs 396]

McCallum really is a poor ,lazy defender.

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

1 minute ago, Orly said:

that's a lot of words to agree that the referee got it wrong.

Some people prefer a little bit of nuance and context to black-and-white thinking.

[Gordon Bennett 789]

Don't really get the criticism of Wagner, we were under the cosh in the first half so going three at the back wasn't the worst idea, especially with two games next weekend; very easy to criticise in hindsight once we concede. Coaches generally can't be blamed for poor decisions on the field. He was between a rock and a hard place there unfortunately. 

I think our best chance of getting something was with a 0-0 once Sainz was dismissed. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

The ref's stupidity made it hard to get anything from the game.

Wagner's stupidity made it impossible. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

I think deep down if we are all being honest with ourselves, we all know it’s a matter of When and not if with Wagner getting the shove. Whilst he is getting results he keeps the scythe at bay for another week or so but when his choices and style of play are analysed they just don’t stand up to the cold light of day. 

[baldy09 160]

Stop Listening to city on the  radio, since the sending off -its obvious we were going to lose- just hope we keep the score  down

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

If it's to be fixed then they need to exercise that sort of discipline consistently, not arbitrarily when they feel like it. Being arbitrary is contemptible.

And you are the barometer of objectivity by which consistency should be measured, right? Or do you think referees should somehow be able to make decisions that everyone agrees are consistent? Just have a think about it.

[Pyro Pete 1,918]

Hwang on.

Idah off

[Helsinki canary 243]

Macallum nearly blew it again, he has had an absolute mare today, Wagner should of hooked him HT

[king canary 7,667]

2 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Don't really get the criticism of Wagner, we were under the cosh in the first half so going three at the back wasn't the worst idea, especially with two games next weekend; very easy to criticise in hindsight once we concede. Coaches generally can't be blamed for poor decisions on the field. He was between a rock and a hard place there unfortunately. 

I think our best chance of getting something was with a 0-0 once Sainz was dismissed. 

The criticism is that down to 10 you need pace to try and relieve the pressure. He took off all our pace and basically went for 'stick 10 men behind the ball' tactics which failed straight away. He had many other options and as usual he chose the worst one.

[TheGunnShow 5,994]

Sainz gave the referee a decision to make. Unfortunately for us, the referee made it. Blaming the referee here is a dim move.

The problem here was Sainz's lack of discipline. End of story.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

Hmm

I thought Idah was doing well, a bit early to sub him.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

It was too early to park the bus, clearly.

introduce Hanley and Batth at 60/70 if you like but half time? Nah.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

3 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Don't really get the criticism of Wagner, we were under the cosh in the first half so going three at the back wasn't the worst idea, especially with two games next weekend; very easy to criticise in hindsight once we concede. Coaches generally can't be blamed for poor decisions on the field. He was between a rock and a hard place there unfortunately. 

I think our best chance of getting something was with a 0-0 once Sainz was dismissed. 

I like Wagner as a person he comes across very affable and speaks well. My real concern is the way he talks about how he wants football to be played and the way we actually play are two completely different things. If we got the attacking high press high energy style he talks of I’d be over the moon. What we end up with though is a disjointed team with some talented individuals but also some who can’t even be bothered to run to track back or get in position when they are without possession. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Some people prefer a little bit of nuance and context to black-and-white thinking.

Personally, I'd be totally in favour of a Rugby-style approach to dissent where nobody protests anything to the referee, but football has a heavily entrenched culture of players arguing with referees. The EFL thinking they can just make a statement that there'll be a clampdown and then for referees just arbitarily card players for dissent on an ad hoc basis won't fix it. If there are to be cards for protest then every single player that protests anything to the referee should be carded; no exceptions. What we have here is a long way from that.

Utterly disgusted.

[Branston Pickle 3,684]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

The ref's stupidity made it hard to get anything from the game.

Wagner's stupidity made it impossible. 

Oh?  What would you have done, make perfect decisions with hindsight, as ever?  He was going to be damned whatever he did.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[Herman 9,822]

I'm no big Wagner fan but can we at least hold the **** that managed to get himself sent off as being largely responsible??

[king canary 7,667]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

And you are the barometer of objectivity by which consistency should be measured, right? Or do you think referees should somehow be able to make decisions that everyone agrees are consistent? Just have a think about it.

He won't.

[RobJames 890]

There can be NO justification for that booking as the ref would have been all too aware of the implications.

We have gone to a point where very physical challenges are now allowed but if you say 'boo' to the ref you are booked.

Cards should be used for football offences, not that. The game was not affected. No WBA players was fouled, attacked or insulted. If Sainze made derogatory remarks etc then deal with it OFF the pitch by a disciplinary hearing and a hefty fine if found guilty. Leaving one team with player less because the ref is some shrinking violet is not in the spirit of the game,

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

And you are the barometer of objectivity by which consistency should be measured, right? Or do you think referees should somehow be able to make decisions that everyone agrees are consistent? Just have a think about it.

I've never pretended to be and am not required to be. Does your observation in any way invalidate what I'm saying?

What do you think? Are the referees in any way consistent on this?

Edited December 26, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie