Could Farke have turned it around?

[chicken 2,687]

On 18/12/2023 at 10:15, BigFish said:

Walker got lucky with someone else's team and Lambert is debatable.

Nope. Not debatable. He kept the team in the premier league on not even half the budget... with Barnet and De Laet in our defence...

[king canary 7,705]

27 minutes ago, chicken said:

Nope. Not debatable. He kept the team in the premier league on not even half the budget... with Barnet and De Laet in our defence...

Been sitting on this one all Christmas?

[By Hook or Ian crook 927]

I think we were doomed to be relegated regardless of who was manager when we sacked Farke. What I will say is we would of had a better chance coming back up with Farke than without 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,105]

On 16/12/2023 at 21:55, duke63 said:

Rashica and Tzolis are decent players as other clubs are finding out. Farke didn't know how to get the best out of them.

Neither did Smith or Wagner

[The Great Mass Debater 1,105]

On 16/12/2023 at 22:46, Mr Tea said:

If Farke had stay then people would have continued to blame him and it would have become toxic. It was only after him going people realised that “ oh nuts, it’s the players (and Webber of course) “ he should have stayed.

Farke was the best manager I’ve seen for us in my near 40 years of following. 
 

When Webber pulled his previous trick of raiding Dortmund II I thought Farke was a pound-shop Wagner after a mediocre first season. Now it feels like in Wagner we have a pound-shop Farke

[Fen Canary 901]

43 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

When Webber pulled his previous trick of raiding Dortmund II I thought Farke was a pound-shop Wagner after a mediocre first season. Now it feels like in Wagner we have a pound-shop Farke

Both probably had their moment in the sun with one club, and both will no go on to middling careers.

Wagner had a good couple of seasons at Huddersfield with a group of players that clicked for his preferred style (or his preferred style was born when he stumbled upon a formula that worked with that group of players).

Farke managed to combine Buendia and Pukki which transformed us from being like Southampton were the other day (thousands of sideways passes with little penetration) into a side able to carve defences open at will.

Martin O’Neill aside (and he was only here briefly) very few of our successful managers have done much once they left 

[Robert N. LiM 4,667]

6 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

very few of our successful managers have done much once they left 

Harsh on Lambert's highly successful spell at Ipswich 

[Fen Canary 901]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Harsh on Lambert's highly successful spell at Ipswich 

Was certainly successful from our point of view 

[TheBaldOne66 723]

On 15/12/2023 at 14:59, lake district canary said:

Farke was much more important to this club than some people realise. The football he brought was at times breathtakingly good. Even without Buendia in the team we were capable of fluent and purringly beautiful football, even if we didn't always win. It wasn't like that all the time of course and the PL was always going to be a difficult task, but even then we were described in glowing terms in that first season up there. Then came covid which ruined things for us. But even then he turned it round the following season, producing the best ever of our championship teams......only to be sacked 11 games later in favour of......well......nothing in particular. 

Should simply have been kept on, rode out that season, whatever it brought and rebuilt again in similar style - much as Burnley will do with Kompany. We would be in a better place now if he had stayed. Sacked because of other people's failings, that is the real truth - and he's showing that at Leeds now. Yes they've got a good squad, but they still need to be led and he is a good leader - and the Leeds fans are besotted with him. 

Smith, meh, Wagner - under the criteria of sacking Farke, should have gone months ago. Farke was a man for all seasons and Webber sacked him for nothing, or rather the vain hope that someone else could do better, without realising that the best bet was probably to remain strong and keep the man that helped give him his reputation in the first place. 

 

Lakey bigging up his love God. What a surprise! Ffs man let it go or go and support Leeds. 
 

He couldn’t manage in the top flight here or in Germany, the stats don’t lie! 

[Corbs1 90]

Not interested in comparing or what ifs, he is in my top 4 all time City managers, great times, our first foreign manager, an identity to savour. All good times come to an end. Bad spells also don’t last forever. 
 

Under Bielsa and Farke I enjoyed and enjoy watching Leeds. 

[ricardo 7,447]

Farke wouldn't have kept us up but nor would any other  manager on earth, including Pep.

Therefore sacking him was akin to shooting yourself in the head.

[Midlands Yellow 4,122]

Deserved the whole season after winning another title. Norwich got shot of him but I doubt he’d of walked out on us. 

[norfolkngood 1,098]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Deserved the whole season after winning another title. Norwich got shot of him but I doubt he’d of walked out on us. 

yes with hindsight i would of kept him , got rid of Webber 

more chance of building a better side ,with Farke and another DOF  than  Webber and what managers we have had since ,

Webber signings were so good when first here , but standard he set was never hit again 

we would of gone down but i think Farke could of built ever season and we could of grown together 

[Midlands Yellow 4,122]

11 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

yes with hindsight i would of kept him , got rid of Webber 

more chance of building a better side ,with Farke and another DOF  than  Webber and what managers we have had since ,

Webber signings were so good when first here , but standard he set was never hit again 

we would of gone down but i think Farke could of built ever season and we could of grown together 

Webber has no class, should have resigned himself when he failed twice at the top level. 

[Capt. Pants 4,334]

If I bought Wagner from a Pound Shop I'd want some change.

[chicken 2,687]

On 04/01/2024 at 20:07, ricardo said:

Farke wouldn't have kept us up but nor would any other  manager on earth, including Pep.

Therefore sacking him was akin to shooting yourself in the head.

I disagree to a point. We arguably had better squads than two teams we were promoted with... twice. We were competitive with them at least. And at least two premier league sides of those which we joined.

Parma has made good arguments as to how we could have been more competitive.

We finished bottom both times. Over which there was a perjod of some 20+ games without a win untill his last game.

I don't subscribe to this 'take the hit in the PL and hang on to him for the Championship' mentality.Makes no sense IMHO.

[lake district canary 4,563]

On 04/01/2024 at 20:07, ricardo said:

Farke wouldn't have kept us up but nor would any other  manager on earth, including Pep.

Therefore sacking him was akin to shooting yourself in the head.

Extreme, but agree with the sentiment. 

[lake district canary 4,563]

26 minutes ago, chicken said:

I don't subscribe to this 'take the hit in the PL and hang on to him for the Championship' mentality.Makes no sense IMHO.

I don't think you have to view it like that. If you are making best use of your resources, then you go as far as you can with that and not get hung up with any preconceptions about which league you are in - you simply do your best and if it isn't good enough, so be it.  

I presume Webber thought Farke was not getting the best out of the squad, but maybe - given the circumstances - Farke was getting the best out of them. People will point to the Leeds and Chelsea games, but I would point out the hard fought draws to stem the tide of losses and the win at Brentford. I know the decision was made before Brentford, but given that the players were still clearly playing for him - and given that there was no apparent plan for the future, except maybe a fantasy that Lampard was the master plan, then maybe in hindsight that decision could be seen as folly. 

Edited January 10 by lake district canary

[The Bunny 316]

The recruitment which preceded that second PL season killed all chance of staying up. We lost two of our best players and failed to replace them in any meaningful way. That was the start of the downward slide which we’re still on today.

That said, I don’t think Farke gets a free ride. His overall record in the PL is the worst of any manager with more than 5 games in charge (including Dean Smith). I posted a league table back a few months back. Reproducing it here:

 

Sorted by Pts/game:

	P	W	D	L	Win %	Lose %	Pts	Pts/G
Mike Walker	65	31	16	18	47.7%	27.7%	109	1.68
Paul Lambert	38	12	11	15	31.6%	39.5%	47	1.24
Chris Hughton	71	18	22	31	25.4%	43.7%	76	1.07
Alex Neil	38	9	7	22	23.7%	57.9%	34	0.89
Nigel Worthington	38	7	12	19	18.4%	50.0%	33	0.87
John Deehan	56	7	16	33	12.5%	58.9%	37	0.66
Dean Smith	27	4	5	18	14.8%	66.7%	17	0.63
Daniel Farke	49	6	8	35	12.2%	71.4%	26	0.53
Neil Adams	5	0	1	4	0.0%	80.0%	1	0.20
Gary Megson	5	0	0	5	0.0%	100.0%	0	0.00

 

Sorted by Win %

	P	W	D	L	Win %	Lose %	Pts	Pts/G
Mike Walker	65	31	16	18	47.7%	27.7%	109	1.68
Paul Lambert	38	12	11	15	31.6%	39.5%	47	1.24
Chris Hughton	71	18	22	31	25.4%	43.7%	76	1.07
Alex Neil	38	9	7	22	23.7%	57.9%	34	0.89
Nigel Worthington	38	7	12	19	18.4%	50.0%	33	0.87
Dean Smith	27	4	5	18	14.8%	66.7%	17	0.63
John Deehan	56	7	16	33	12.5%	58.9%	37	0.66
Daniel Farke	49	6	8	35	12.2%	71.4%	26	0.53
Neil Adams	5	0	1	4	0.0%	80.0%	1	0.20
Gary Megson	5	0	0	5	0.0%

Edited January 10 by The Bunny

[Worthy Nigelton 1,092]

On 04/01/2024 at 20:33, norfolkngood said:

yes with hindsight i would of kept him , got rid of Webber 

more chance of building a better side ,with Farke and another DOF  than  Webber and what managers we have had since ,

Webber signings were so good when first here , but standard he set was never hit again 

we would of gone down but i think Farke could of built ever season and we could of grown together 

This is something that never gets said but is spot on. Someone's head should have rolled for the debacle of that transfer window, but we fired the wrong one. Webber should have been unceremoniously canned after Brentford and the board should have came out fully in support of Farke and said how he'd been let down by a massively underperforming SD and recruitment team. That would have appeased the fans somewhat, given Farke confidence to get back to playing the right way and allowed us to have the required reset whilst keeping the services of a top manager. 

[Sufyellow 246]

On 04/01/2024 at 20:07, ricardo said:

Farke wouldn't have kept us up but nor would any other  manager on earth, including Pep.

Therefore sacking him was akin to shooting yourself in the head.

Totally agree , but for me was the way he was sacked,  in my role I have to do that , but you show some class and respect. I will never forgive the board in charge for that. Unfortunately Delia's whole character of being this lovely person took a huge hit that day. Everything webber did and said came with her backing,  and I still find it hard to believe. 

[canarybubbles 1,968]

19 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Totally agree , but for me was the way he was sacked,  in my role I have to do that , but you show some class and respect. I will never forgive the board in charge for that. Unfortunately Delia's whole character of being this lovely person took a huge hit that day. Everything webber did and said came with her backing,  and I still find it hard to believe. 

After her performance at the AGM, I imagine it's getting a little easier.

[Mr Angry 1,575]

On 04/01/2024 at 20:07, ricardo said:

Farke wouldn't have kept us up but nor would any other  manager on earth, including Pep.

Therefore sacking him was akin to shooting yourself in the head.

Part of the narrative is that Farke wanted to sign certain players and Webber signed different ones. Pep wouldn’t have allowed Webber to do that.

[Fen Canary 901]

5 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Part of the narrative is that Farke wanted to sign certain players and Webber signed different ones. Pep wouldn’t have allowed Webber to do that.

Is that actually true though? As far as I can tell it got said once on here, then repeated that many times it’s now accepted as fact.

Personally I find it hard to believe a manager would have no say in player signings. He may not have got his first choices due to budget constraints but that’s a different thing entirely.

Farke and Webber would have discussed the attributes needed, the scouts would have come back with a list of names then they’d have tried to balance which ones to sign based on which ones they thought they needed most, which ones they could afford, which ones had potential etc.

To me Farke and Webber deserve the same praise and criticism for the years they were together, just as Webber deserved to share the criticism aimed at Smith and Wagner 

[non-scoring strikers 128]

Urgh. Give it a rest.

He wasn’t good enough. Get over it.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 555]

15 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Part of the narrative is that Farke wanted to sign certain players and Webber signed different ones. Pep wouldn’t have allowed Webber to do that.

That came from a Michael Bailey article.

Farke wanted a few quality players, think it was a CD, DM and a Buendia replacement.

The club decided that because Farke's training techniques resulted in a lot of injuries we needed to spread the budget more thinly and and sign a greater number of players.

Who knows whether Farke's idea would have resulted in better performance, if I were a betting man I'd say yes.

However you could also argue that Farke didn't think we needed to sign a Krul successor, and Krul became a bit of a liability and didn't he get a bad shoulder injury and miss a third of the season.

So what if we'd done as Farke planned and then ended up with Michael McGovern in goal for the 9 games that Angus Gunn played, might have cancelled out any benefit from the 3 quality additions?

[shefcanary 2,504]

10 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Is that actually true though? As far as I can tell it got said once on here, then repeated that many times it’s now accepted as fact.

Michael Bailey did a piece on this. I can't remember if it was for Pink'Un or Athletic (I suspect the latter but haven't found the piece to re-post here yet as I only recently took up a subscription, will keep on looking unless anyone else has it to hand).

Bailey quoted sources at the club that Farke identified 3 key positions he wanted to fill with a good quality player,. That same person said Webber was more concerned with the level of injuries they had incurred the previous season, so decided to have a greater number of players brought in to cover all potential outcomes. That meant the money available was spread more thinly, so Farke did not get the  quality of player he wanted. 

[Ulfotto 666]

It was not just potential injuries it was the uncertainty created by the global pandemic that was another reason why a small number of players would have been a risk.

[Midlands Yellow 4,122]

20 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

Totally agree , but for me was the way he was sacked,  in my role I have to do that , but you show some class and respect. I will never forgive the board in charge for that. Unfortunately Delia's whole character of being this lovely person took a huge hit that day. Everything webber did and said came with her backing,  and I still find it hard to believe. 

Humiliated a good man that day but there was no surprise the class he showed on his return. 

[duke63 548]

Can't believe so many are still harping on about this.

The facts are Farke was brilliant in the Championship (for us) and abysmal in the EPL. The worst EPL performing manager in our history.

He's gone. Get over it and support the Club and team now. You can't live in the past!