Did yesterday’s win just paper over the cracks?

[Hardhouse44 261]

Or does it give you genuine hope that things are improving and will continue to improve?

It was evident that the manager hasn’t lost the dressing room yesterday as the players celebrated with him.  But is it all just one bang average team getting the rub of the green on the day over another bang average team?

As soon as we meet any team with a little about them will we crumble again? 
 

Thoughts?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,735]

The tactics, player choices, defending and general football is still pretty poor and ugly.

 

But yet we have made it three wins in four. It's really quite the paradox.

Edited December 4, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Midlands Yellow 3,994]

6 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Or does it give you genuine hope that things are improving and will continue to improve?

It was evident that the manager hasn’t lost the dressing room yesterday as the players celebrated with him.  But is it all just one bang average team getting the rub of the green on the day over another bang average team?

As soon as we meet any team with a little about them will we crumble again? 
 

Thoughts?

Minimum of 4 points required from the next two home matches. Confidence is still lacking but Preston and Wednesday are ideal opponents to install some belief with positive results. 

[mannings bandy legs 389]

11 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Or does it give you genuine hope that things are improving and will continue to improve?

It was evident that the manager hasn’t lost the dressing room yesterday as the players celebrated with him.  But is it all just one bang average team getting the rub of the green on the day over another bang average team?

As soon as we meet any team with a little about them will we crumble again? 
 

Thoughts?

No,yes and yes i'm sorry to  say.

[alex_ncfc 662]

It's 100% papered over the cracks.

The only thing is, most Norwich fans are so soft and easily pleased, that many will think promotion is suddenly on the agenda.

Minutes before the winner the fans were chanting for Wagner out. Now it's all "WAGNER'S ON THE PITCH!" like he's some sort of genius. No doubt the car crash PR disaster of an interview with Delia and MWJ has probably all suddenly been forgiven and forgotten also.

It's actually quite embarrassing.

[pete 319]

3 victories against equally poor teams is not a reason to go over the top to suggest better times are ahead.  2 were only won in the final few minutes after a turgid performance.  QPR were on a particularly poor run could well have avoided defeat.  But Wagner is dead man walking as evidenced by the over enthusiastic celebrations following Idah's winner.  To fail to take action on Wagner only extends the pain and offend the fans with only a handful of exceptions.  The football is dire and will continue to be so until something changes.

Not saying a new coach/mamager will reap immediate improvements but it will raise hopes.  Looking forward to the appointment of a messiah who can work wonders on a shoestring.  Is there one out there I doubt it but he won't be the hapless Wagner.

[canarybubbles 1,923]

For me, the key thing is that these three victories have put us well clear of the relegation zone so it's bought Knapper some time. Imagine if we had lost those three games - not impossible by any means given our performance in each of them. We would now have 17 points and be hovering dangerously close to the bottom three and there would be enormous pressure on Knapper to make a quick decision. We're far from out of the woods yet IMO, but 4 or 6 points from the next two home games and we'd be looking pretty comfortable. That doesn't necessarily mean we keep Wagner, but Knapper could start planning for the long term rather than fire fighting. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by canarybubbles

[First Wazzock 902]

Yes

It's still not convincing, or good to watch;

[Google Bot 3,278]

I feel that this period was always going to about getting what we can from games as we lost critical players early in the season, it's not a coincidence that we're getting players back and we've now won 3 in 4, plus two of those were come-backs which is always a good sign.

Sarge yet to return, Rowe getting back into the swing of things, Hanley on the way back, Barnes clearly having an influence, Sainz hopefully to get more minutes.  The cracks are evident when we're down to second and third string players, but we all knew that coming out of pre-season anyway - Hopefully we get the run of luck to bring balance now.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Google Bot

[GRB2 34]

100%. We've played some proper awful teams and scraped by. 

[S_81 802]

Only a fool would think the recent lucky results have materially changed things. He’s a woeful tactician. I said we’d finish 16th with him in charge. And he’s still on to deliver it IMO. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,384]

15 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

For me, the key thing is that these three victories have put us well clear of the relegation zone so it's bought Knapper some time. Imagine if we had lost those three games - not impossible by any means given our performance in each of them. We would now have 17 points and be hovering dangerously close to the bottom three and there would be enormous pressure on Knapper to make a quick decision. We're far from out of the woods yet IMO, but 4 or 6 points from the next two home games and we'd be looking pretty comfortable. That doesn't necessarily mean we keep Wagner, but Knapper could start planning for the long term rather than fire fighting. 

Exactly. In an ideal world Wagner is the caretaker coach while Knapper works out what he wants to do. Wagner has to do just enough to prevent Knapper having to fire him.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

55 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Exactly. In an ideal world Wagner is the caretaker coach while Knapper works out what he wants to do. Wagner has to do just enough to prevent Knapper having to fire him.

Pretty much it, unless something really clicks. I'm not convinced it will but at the same time, when you have a style of play that really needs a Sargent-style striker up top to chase absolutely everything that moves to keep the pressure on teams, losing him for a prolonged period will make us struggle.

Even though Barnes hasn't played too well, we look flintier with him back in the side.

[Mason 47 1,382]

Absolutely not unless my understanding of the saying is wrong. This would suggest to me that despite the obvious problems, the perception is that everything is great now.

Haven't seen anyone suggesting we've been much more than very fortunate and cautiously hoping this might be the spark that gets us up and running properly again. That's certainly where I'm at with it.

 

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

57 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Exactly. In an ideal world Wagner is the caretaker coach while Knapper works out what he wants to do. Wagner has to do just enough to prevent Knapper having to fire him.

From Knapper's perspective I would have thought in an ideal world Wagner is able to turn it around and shows he's the Head Coach to execute his strategy. I think we all have doubts that will happen but at this moment in time we don't know what the strategy is and over what timescales. With an extremely low chance of relegation I don't think Knapper will be diving in just yet, but should he identify a target Head Coach who is or becomes available then I expect he will pull the trigger.

There is still enough of the season left for Sargent to be our best striker and Hanley our best CB. Both could have a huge impact where we finish in the table.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

From Knapper's perspective I would have thought in an ideal world Wagner is able to turn it around and shows he's the Head Coach to execute his strategy. I think we all have doubts that will happen but at this moment in time we don't know what the strategy is and over what timescales. With an extremely low chance of relegation I don't think Knapper will be diving in just yet, but should he identify a target Head Coach who is or becomes available then I expect he will pull the trigger.

There is still enough of the season left for Sargent to be our best striker and Hanley our best CB. Both could have a huge impact where we finish in the table.

Absolutely.  The question is whether Wagner can come good with time and the right players, or not.  We need to remember that Farke had a very mediocre initial period.  At the same time, with Dean Smith, he was clearly able to convince the SD/owners that he would come good, given time, and most on here thought it was never going to happen long before he was finally sacked.

 

Of course, as fans it's easy for us to say the coach should be sacked, we don't have to find a replacement and sort things out financially and if the replacement is not an improvement we'll be the first to complain.

[mannings bandy legs 389]

4 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

From Knapper's perspective I would have thought in an ideal world Wagner is able to turn it around and shows he's the Head Coach to execute his strategy. I think we all have doubts that will happen but at this moment in time we don't know what the strategy is and over what timescales. With an extremely low chance of relegation I don't think Knapper will be diving in just yet, but should he identify a target Head Coach who is or becomes available then I expect he will pull the trigger.

There is still enough of the season left for Sargent to be our best striker and Hanley our best CB. Both could have a huge impact where we finish in the table.

I'll reiterate what I posted a few days ago. Regardless of whether results get better or worse,does anybody on here want this squad anywhere near the EPL and the subsequent misery that would involve.

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

4 minutes ago, mannings bandy legs said:

I'll reiterate what I posted a few days ago. Regardless of whether results get better or worse,does anybody on here want this squad anywhere near the EPL and the subsequent misery that would involve.

It would certainly require Nottm Forest levels of investment and then even then if we were still relegated the legacy on finances would be huge. We haven't recovered from the last relegation yet.

Binners beware!

[Hardhouse44 261]

1 hour ago, First Wazzock said:

Yes

It's still not convincing, or good to watch;

This is it for me. It’s not good to watch, there’s no high temp despite the manager often telling us that’s how he wants us to play.

39% possession against a bang average Bristol City, 38% possession against a poor QPR isn’t what I want to see. We play scrappy, disjointed football.

[BigFish 1,988]

Certainly eases the pressure, but in reality it is just a reversion to the mean. We (that is Wagner and the players) were never as bad as some on here made out, was much comical hyperbole about it and a number were really hoping a car crash would prove them right. That said we look like what we are, significantly better than the bottom four, significantly poorer than the top four and with no clear vision (yet, maybe) of a plan to make it better. We are a Championship team, could finish anywhere between 5th and 20th.

[BigFish 1,988]

13 minutes ago, mannings bandy legs said:

I'll reiterate what I posted a few days ago. Regardless of whether results get better or worse,does anybody on here want this squad anywhere near the EPL and the subsequent misery that would involve.

Burnley got 101 points last year, spent £90 million strengthening and pretty much look nailed on for relegation.

[stratton canary 134]

Two mid table sides yesterday, just glad for once it went our way! 

[hogesar 9,676]

2 hours ago, alex_ncfc said:

It's 100% papered over the cracks.

The only thing is, most Norwich fans are so soft and easily pleased, that many will think promotion is suddenly on the agenda.

Minutes before the winner the fans were chanting for Wagner out. Now it's all "WAGNER'S ON THE PITCH!" like he's some sort of genius. No doubt the car crash PR disaster of an interview with Delia and MWJ has probably all suddenly been forgiven and forgotten also.

It's actually quite embarrassing.

Not as embarrassing as thinking Long is as good a GK as Gunn, though....

[Midlands Yellow 3,994]

19 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Burnley got 101 points last year, spent £90 million strengthening and pretty much look nailed on for relegation.

Nailed on? 4/6 to go down so no way a certainty just yet. 

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Not as embarrassing as thinking Long is as good a GK as Gunn, though....

Has anyone anywhere said he is?

[hogesar 9,676]

Ultimately its changed little although may have given the players a bit of confidence going into the next two home games, whilst saving Knapper from having to try and find a replacement coach mid season.

We have to question if this team, the 11, is capable of significantly more than it is producing. I think its capable of more but not by a huge margin. An outside chance of the playoffs but we seem to lack any sort of consistency for it to be realistic.

Does that change as Hanley, Gibson and Sargent return? Possibly a bit, again.

[hogesar 9,676]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Has anyone anywhere said he is?

Yeah, the poster I quoted, hence me quoting it...

[nutty nigel 7,539]

2 hours ago, alex_ncfc said:

It's 100% papered over the cracks.

The only thing is, most Norwich fans are so soft and easily pleased, that many will think promotion is suddenly on the agenda.

Minutes before the winner the fans were chanting for Wagner out. Now it's all "WAGNER'S ON THE PITCH!" like he's some sort of genius. No doubt the car crash PR disaster of an interview with Delia and MWJ has probably all suddenly been forgiven and forgotten also.

It's actually quite embarrassing.

What percentage is most? 80%?

[Ulfotto 635]

The championship table has settled down somewhat and there is now clear correlation in that we have beaten the teams below us and lost to the teams above us more or less. So it’s no surprise we are mid table.

[yellowrider120 764]

3 hours ago, alex_ncfc said:

It's 100% papered over the cracks.

The only thing is, most Norwich fans are so soft and easily pleased, that many will think promotion is suddenly on the agenda.

Minutes before the winner the fans were chanting for Wagner out. Now it's all "WAGNER'S ON THE PITCH!" like he's some sort of genius. No doubt the car crash PR disaster of an interview with Delia and MWJ has probably all suddenly been forgiven and forgotten also.

It's actually quite embarrassing.

Totally agree with you. We were lucky v QPR and to concede 62% possession against a team 23rd in the league and with us at home also, was appalling. If our performances dont improve then the likes of Ipswich, WBA and Southampton will beat us quite easily.