Whether you love them or not….

[TheBaldOne66 697]

The root cause of the troubles is Smith and Jones and the way they allow this club to be run. 
 

If ever there was a time to hand full control to Attanasio it’s now but no, they are here for another three years allegedly, allowing Webber and his Mrs to make things worse day by day. 
 

No other club in the country is run in the way we are by these two, still stuck in the past. But they get away with it because so many people blame Webber and Wagner, when in truth it’s those at the top who have caused this.

If, as they try and tell us regularly, they truly love the club they would do the only thing that’s right and step aside now, sadly they won’t though. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,071]

1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

The root cause of the troubles is Smith and Jones and the way they allow this club to be run. 
 

If ever there was a time to hand full control to Attanasio it’s now but no, they are here for another three years allegedly, allowing Webber and his Mrs to make things worse day by day. 
 

No other club in the country is run in the way we are by these two, still stuck in the past. But they get away with it because so many people blame Webber and Wagner, when in truth it’s those at the top who have caused this.

If, as they try and tell us regularly, they truly love the club they would do the only thing that’s right and step aside now, sadly they won’t though. 

I’ve never understood the love in for the pair. Nearly 18 months since new investment was found and they still stick around because they can’t let go. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

I’ve been saying this for five years now- but the clappers just called me a miserablist and assured us all was swell 

[City fan 78]

To leave would reveal the books. 

[canarycop 209]

All of the uncertainty isn't helping the people who keep the club afloat......the supporters!!!

Never hear from the directors or the sporting director. All have plenty to say when things are going well but when the chips are down not a dickie bird. 

If we are really a community club and you really care about the fans please do something about this mess now. I haven't felt this bad about performances since we last got relegated to league one. We need to have something to look forward to and cheer. Have neither at the moment 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

What’s the point in posting / venting about this. It’s been done to death, and the vast majority know this is the case. Nothing will change the fact that Delia will leave on her terms when she wants to.

Some will point to a good few seasons of EPL football during tenure. But in reality the club has always been on the edge and never close to stability. We’ve missed several opportunities to establish ourselves in the EPL - we absolutely could’ve emulated what Brighton and Brentford have done/doing - but her refusal to accept the club only progress without her at the helm has prevented that. Now we’ll watch Ipswich do it. 

The lack of authority and governance during here reign is absolutely ridiculous at a professional football club. It was better under the Ed Balls, McNally days, but I don’t think she liked that. 

[hogesar 9,736]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’ve been saying this for five years now- but the clappers just called me a miserablist and assured us all was swell 

To be fair yeah, you have said it for five years and two of those you were telling us we could be looking at league one football but ended up with two titles instead.

But no one can doubt your consistency (albeit its much quieter from you in those title seasons)

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,854]

We persistently complain about the money in modern football and how it's ruining the game, and then we criticise our owners because they're 'stuck in the past' and not rich enough. 

[TheBaldOne66 697]

Just now, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We persistently complain about the money in modern football and how it's ruining the game, and then we criticise our owners because they're 'stuck in the past' and not rich enough. 

Not said anything about not rich enough in the OP have I? Stuck in the past though, yes they are. 

And to allow what’s going on with Webber and take 3 years to handover to MA that is not normal is it?

[Midlands Yellow 4,071]

7 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Not said anything about not rich enough in the OP have I? Stuck in the past though, yes they are. 

And to allow what’s going on with Webber and take 3 years to handover to MA that is not normal is it?

You’re flogging a dead horse here. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,854]

29 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Not said anything about not rich enough in the OP have I? Stuck in the past though, yes they are. 

First of all, I wasn't meaning this thread specifically, just the level of disrespect that Delia and Michael get shown in general. 'Not rich enough' is a common complaint. 

Secondly, it's clearly what you meant, isn't it?

[BroadstairsR 2,202]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We persistently complain about the money in modern football and how it's ruining the game, and then we criticise our owners because they're 'stuck in the past' and not rich enough. 

That's not quite fair actually. Certainly not as far as I am concerned. My synopsis has always been that it is possible to dislike the way money is "ruining" the game whilst at the same time realising the need to embrace it one way or another quite simply because the situation is not likely to change ever and any club unable to keep up with those demands will inevitably fall by the wayside.

NCFC, D & M or whoever attempting to imitate the supposed actions  of King Canute by repelling the tide is surely admirable but when the inevitable failure occurs nobody will notice or even care outside Norfolk.

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" to put it bluntly. Nobody remembers a brave loser for long.

The same with Sky Television which generally gets a hammering on this forum as being the root cause of the current money-fest  but never before have we had such a rich sweet shop of live football to pick and chose from every time we turn towards a screen. It's wonderful actually (cricket and golf too, for me.)

Can't have it both ways. It's progress.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[alex_ncfc 664]

Owners hanging around for 3 more years like a bad smell whilst someone else is ready and waiting to take the reigns.

An outgoing sporting director who has consistently failed staying around to help the new sporting director "settle in" 

Only at Norwich City. 

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

6 minutes ago, alex_ncfc said:

Owners hanging around for 3 more years like a bad smell whilst someone else is ready and waiting to take the reigns.

An outgoing sporting director who has consistently failed staying around to help the new sporting director "settle in" 

Only at Norwich City. 

Don’t forget the sporting directors mate with an absolute embarrassing record in charge of the team

[king canary 7,666]

13 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

That's not quite fair actually. Certainly not as far as I am concerned. My synopsis has always been that it is possible to dislike the way money is "ruining" the game whilst at the same time realising the need to embrace it one way or another quite simply because the situation is not likely to change ever and any club unable to keep up with those demands will inevitably fall by the wayside.

NCFC, D & M or whoever attempting to imitate the supposed actions  of King Canute by repelling the tide is surely admirable but when the inevitable failure occurs nobody will notice or even care outside Norfolk.

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" to put it bluntly. Nobody remembers a brave loser for long.

The same with Sky Television which generally gets a hammering on this forum as being the root cause of the current money-fest  but never before have we had such a rich sweet shop of live football to pick and chose from every time we turn towards a screen. It's wonderful actually (cricket and golf too, for me.)

Can't have it both ways. It's progress.

 

 

Totally agree with this.

You can both believe that the money in the game is a net negative while also recognising that Norwich are part of this system and trying to ignore it is just pointless.

[alex_ncfc 664]

20 minutes ago, king canary said:

Totally agree with this.

You can both believe that the money in the game is a net negative while also recognising that Norwich are part of this system and trying to ignore it is just pointless.

Exactly. It's made me cringe in our recent Premier League attempts (if you can even call them attempts) that we go around playing the paupers of the league, like we are desperate for some sort of badge of honour and recognition for trying to operate like we are still living in the 90s, with no funds. The reality is we rightly get criticised and mocked in the modern game for trying to do everything on the cheap. Nobody else does this, why do we? Because the owners can't let go! 

Edited October 25, 2023 by alex_ncfc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Our owners are not above criticsm. While they appear the least wealthiest at our level, they have overseen 5 EPL promotions in the last 20 years. So that is far better than virtually any club outside of the top dozen or so. 

But they have also seen us relegated as many times. And they have had eleven coaches in that time, not including caretakers. Obviously during that period we have had DoFs as well.

Personally, I don't believe they have the nous to run the football side and have to rely on others to help them make decisions.

And that is where the supporters come in. I am not proposing anarchy, but I think Delia needs to recognise that fans do know football (some may disagree). And they recognise, not just because of results, when things are not right. And I sense many do recognise things are wrong.

While not diminishing the effect of injuries, our performance, not results, have gone from dynamic, forward, attacking play to boring, mistake ridden, passing for passing sake football. And theboard have to act. Not just sacking a coach but, as fans themselves, telling him he is wrong. They are the custodians right now and have a duty. I don't advocate them picking the team but surely telling Wagner it looks like he is getting it wrong isn't interfering. And if he doesn't like it, then he moves on.

[TheBaldOne66 697]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

First of all, I wasn't meaning this thread specifically, just the level of disrespect that Delia and Michael get shown in general. 'Not rich enough' is a common complaint. 

Secondly, it's clearly what you meant, isn't it?

Nope, what I said is what I meant, especially the last bit about loving the club. 

[king canary 7,666]

I posited awhile ago that there is a problem culturally at the club that seems to bleed though from top to bottom, in that we seem to be too 'nice' and just too accepting of failure. It feels like if we lose, if we make errors, if we don't play well there are shrugs of resignation and a general attitude of 'oh well, what can you do?' rather than a fierce determination to improve and get better. 

I hate the phrase but it really feels at times like this that we are truly 'little old Norwich' and it has gotten more pronounced under Webber. Like the who ethos of the club is just 'isn't it lovely to be here, let's just enjoy ourselves' rather than that of a professional club that deserves to be here and should be looking to become better and the whole purpose of the playing staff is to create players we can sell for big profits so we can talk about how sustainable we are rather than trying to actually get better on the pitch.

All the money or resources in the world don't explain how quickly players heads seem to drop when we concede, how we're never up in the oppositions faces, how we seem incapable of making life tough for teams to come and play us and do the basic dirty work. It feels like the last player we had who had the real fire and willingness to drag others up by the scruff of their neck was Buendia and that has never been replaced.

It leaves me longing for players from the Lambert/McNally era- not just obvious ones like Holt but right now I'd love for us to have an Andrew Crofts or Bradley Johnson type midfielder or even a Michael Nelson type defender who would make sure their opponents knew they'd been in a game.    

I'm hoping the new SD and his (hopefully) new manager can start to shift that culture again. 

[hogesar 9,736]

Attanassio will have no emotional involvement with the club. We get to find over the next 10 years or so if that is better or worse for the club. He also has more money. He'd also likely sell to the first Saudi billionaire who offered him enough. 

I suspect it's worth waiting to see what transpires before making judgements...

[S_81 841]

6 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

The root cause of the troubles is Smith and Jones and the way they allow this club to be run. 
 

If ever there was a time to hand full control to Attanasio it’s now but no, they are here for another three years allegedly, allowing Webber and his Mrs to make things worse day by day. 
 

No other club in the country is run in the way we are by these two, still stuck in the past. But they get away with it because so many people blame Webber and Wagner, when in truth it’s those at the top who have caused this.

If, as they try and tell us regularly, they truly love the club they would do the only thing that’s right and step aside now, sadly they won’t though. 

Agreed - they should have shown Webber the door after that failed Prem season and after his arrogance about not giving 100%. They’ve made themselves look both gullible and incompetent for keeping Stu the charlatan hanging around for as long as they have. 

[shefcanary 2,446]

4 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

The lack of authority and governance during here reign is absolutely ridiculous at a professional football club. It was better under the Ed Balls, McNally days, but I don’t think she liked that. 

This is the crux. In the interim period to 26 January 2026, we need the board to have a degree of independent governance (i.e. an independent voice on the Board, ideally a "football" person, but at least a person with some degree of authority and experience of good governance) to challenge all the other members of the Board in an appropriate manner. For instance, asking why the current manager insists on playing to a structure that is not suitable to the current available squad whilst Sargent Barnes are out injured. I've had the **** taken out of me for campaigning for this on here, but I hope all can see it is desperately missing now and is impacting on on-field performance.

[Robert N. LiM 4,478]

On 25/10/2023 at 11:13, shefcanary said:

I've had the **** taken out of me for campaigning for this on here, but I hope all can see it is desperately missing now and is impacting on on-field performance.

I thought the prickly response of D&M to Connor Southwell's question at the AGM spoke volumes about this. Either they really don't see the problem, which is very concerning, or they do but don't want to admit it, hence the angry tone. (Either way, you've got to hope MA will take a different view.)

It's a shame that Connor's follow-up question on the night was so weak, focusing on the potential conflict of having Zoe Webber on the board and Stuart Webber as SD, rather than on the absence of the sort of figure you're talking about.

[Danke bitte 967]

On 25/10/2023 at 06:56, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

we absolutely could’ve emulated what Brighton and Brentford have done/doing

See thread ‘The EPL this season’. Got a few titbits on there about your exact point. I would say Brighton / Brentford have done well but like I mention on that thread it takes a lot to go right for it to work; a savvy infrastructure and a pinpoint hiring policy are two such things for a start. 

[Danke bitte 967]

On 25/10/2023 at 11:13, shefcanary said:

This is the crux. In the interim period to 26 January 2026, we need the board to have a degree of independent governance (i.e. an independent voice on the Board, ideally a "football" person, but at least a person with some degree of authority and experience of good governance) to challenge all the other members of the Board in an appropriate manner. For instance, asking why the current manager insists on playing to a structure that is not suitable to the current available squad whilst Sargent Barnes are out injured. I've had the **** taken out of me for campaigning for this on here, but I hope all can see it is desperately missing now and is impacting on on-field performance.

I always thought you had a good point about a corporate structure. As I replied to CWC above, to me Brighton / Brentford have been so successful owing to the infrastructure and hiring processes in place. Sure a lot has to go right and it’s probably why a lot of other clubs have wanted to kick on in a similar vein but just haven’t. 

[Monty13 2,248]

I don’t understand these posts to be honest. If you read the comments from the AGM and watched/read the surrounding interviews it’s pretty clear who’s in charge.

MA is in control, he holds the purse strings and his man is now SD. The future is all about him regardless of any deals and agreements to vote together. If you think D&M couldn’t control the Webbers what on Earth makes you think they can control MA in his position. It’s done.

[nu_matik 167]

On 25/10/2023 at 08:08, TheBaldOne66 said:

Not said anything about not rich enough in the OP have I? Stuck in the past though, yes they are. 

And to allow what’s going on with Webber and take 3 years to handover to MA that is not normal is it?

This is the whole point... it isn't normal no. We aren't 'normal' because you seem to want us to be something we aren't. NCFC are pretty unique in many ways. Loads of clubs have done the 'normal' stuff; including a merry go round of board and CEO and spending loads of money they don't have. Many of them are League One or worse.

Seeing a club take a very measured approach to a hand over to a wealthy sports team owner with loads of dosh who wants to run a successful long term project and make sure they have the right guys amongst them is pretty refreshing 

We all want a new ownership and direction. We all want success. I want Delia and MWJ to move on. But rushing it to appease fans and not for the best interests of club is mad.

I truly believe we will see great success under Attanasio and I'm willing to wait.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

I'm gonna file this thread away as (mainly) unsubstantiated nonsense.

[Mason 47 1,396]

What an interesting and unique take on our current situation. 

[Nuff Said 5,176]

19 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

I'm gonna file this thread away as (mainly) unsubstantiated nonsense.

Completely this. If we’re playing miserabilist bingo this thread must be a full house.

1.  “We’ve lost the opportunity to become an established PL club”  Despite this being one of the most popular sticks used to beat the club, no-one can credibly explain what an established PL club is, other than the usual big six and now Newcastle. The clubs outside this group who have been in the PL the longest are probably Palace and Wolves, neither of them seem to be forging ahead and one or both could easily go down in a season or two. The reality is that outside the previously mentioned top clubs, everyone is always at risk of a few bad decisions, a poor season and then relegation. Take a look at the Championship table (even League 1) and you’ll find the “established” clubs of yore. Remember the Charlton model?

2. Attanasio has said he wants a gradual transition. But this is ignored because “Delia and Wynnie wanting to hang onto their train set” is a convenient myth to allow people to complain. It is down to him as much as them.

3. What does “stuck in the past” actually mean? That our previous majority owners haven’t already relinquished the club? In which case, see 2 above. Or that they believe it’s possible to balance the books and not put in extra funding over and above what the club earns? It’s clear D&M’s first guiding principal is the survival of the club. Understandable when you look at the situation when they came in and the difficulties we had when relegated to League 1. They take a long-term view on how the club is. Success takes second place to survival (completely rightly so IMHO). Their view of Stuart (and Zoe) Webber is understandable from this perspective. Granted SW blotted his copybook severely with the recruitment at the start of his second PL season, while also demonstrating that extra money is no guarantee of success. Wanting the owners to relinquish control to a new owner who has no real attachment to the club and will lose money while “investing” for, at best, several years is a dangerous game and we will have to see how that works out.

4. This:

On 25/10/2023 at 06:32, City fan said:

To leave would reveal the books. 

5. We never hear from the board/the sporting director… weren’t people saying just a few days ago Delia should have kept quiet at the AGM? Plus, how many other clubs communicate in the same way as NCFC does? (TBF, I don’t pay that much attention to other clubs, I may be wrong and they are all issuing twice weekly commentary from the board on the previous Saturday’s tactics, so feel free to correct me).
 

Also, AFAIK they are not here for another three years, a year has already elapsed - is this wrong?