Harry Toffolo charged with 375 breaches of FA Betting Regs

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/breaking-harry-toffolo-fa-charge-30451269

Breaches alleged to have occurred while he was at NCFC.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Terminally Yellow

[aBee 151]

Well, the precedent has been set, at least  a 15 month ban if he’s found guilty and can’t evidence gambling addiction. More if any bets on games he played. 

[Declan 24]

375 breaches! That's quite a bit more than Toney's 232 so it'll be interesting to see what the FA end up doing...wonder who he's wound up enough to hand those records in after all this time?

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

I, like many others, was totally bemused when we let him go. Perhaps we now know why. 

[Yobocop 1,105]

7 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I, like many others, was totally bemused when we let him go. Perhaps we now know why. 

Not sure the club would’ve known at that stage 

[Myra Hawtree 124]

Member of FA Youth Cup winning team I recall and I was also surprised we let him go as had decent games in first team.  Was also surprised when Forrest signed him as had been at Huddersfield some time.

[aBee 151]

10 minutes ago, Declan said:

375 breaches! That's quite a bit more than Toney's 232 so it'll be interesting to see what the FA end up doing...wonder who he's wound up enough to hand those records in after all this time?

Maybe a way for Forest to get him off their books as they need to do yet another huge squad clearout?!

[cambridgeshire canary 6,792]

Of all the players.. Never struck me the type. Guess you never can tell

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

3 minutes ago, aBee said:

Maybe a way for Forest to get him off their books as they need to do yet another huge squad clearout?!

Yes because forest are going to be able to get him off the books easier by getting him a substantial ban, aren't they?

For crying out loud

[ncfcstar 292]

7 minutes ago, Myra Hawtree said:

Member of FA Youth Cup winning team I recall and I was also surprised we let him go as had decent games in first team.  Was also surprised when Forrest signed him as had been at Huddersfield some time.

He made 3 senior appearances for us...

[pete 320]

What were the rules about betting 10 years ago.  If they were draconian then would not have put career in jeopardy.  Retrospective action is unfair.  Probably lost money on City to win.  If breaches since punishment known then a silly boy.  

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

22 minutes ago, pete said:

Retrospective action is unfair.

Well Peteo, how on earth can  the action be before the deed. If what you are trying to say is that he should be punished under the laws at that time, I agree, if in fact they have changed, maybe they're just being applied more harshly. 

[hogesar 9,736]

46 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

He made 3 senior appearances for us...

Yes and was bang average. However, had we not been up and down from the Prem I'm sure he'd have got a proper opportunity.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,853]

For what it's worth, Toffolo has been charged with a breach of Rule E1(b), whereas Toney was charged with a breach of E8. I'm not sure, but it looks like Toffolo's is less serious?

[aBee 151]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Yes because forest are going to be able to get him off the books easier by getting him a substantial ban, aren't they?

For crying out loud

They could sack for gross misconduct. Or if the ban would extend to most of his contract  argue he’d frustrated it or entered into it following misrepresentation.  

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

14 minutes ago, aBee said:

They could sack for gross misconduct. Or if the ban would extend to most of his contract  argue he’d frustrated it or entered into it following misrepresentation.  

You couldn't be sacked for gross misconduct because the misconduct wasn't committed during the term of the contract with them.

Breach of contract could be possible, but would likely need careful consideration of the contract entered into. Legal fees and the internal processes dictated by employment law not to mention the potential for litigation etc make this an expensive route to go down when more traditional methods (sale, loan etc - of which there would have been plenty of offers given Toffolo's abilities) would be far cheaper rather than snitching on your own player.

It's just a ridiculous suggestion all round.  

[norfolkngood 1,087]

well that is so stupid if true ,

Worked his way back from all those injuries and and got to the PL at a good club and has thrown it away if found guilty 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

14 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

You couldn't be sacked for gross misconduct because the misconduct wasn't committed during the term of the contract with them.

Breach of contract could be possible, but would likely need careful consideration of the contract entered into. Legal fees and the internal processes dictated by employment law not to mention the potential for litigation etc make this an expensive route to go down when more traditional methods (sale, loan etc - of which there would have been plenty of offers given Toffolo's abilities) would be far cheaper rather than snitching on your own player.

It's just a ridiculous suggestion all round.  

How would that work if he has not disclosed that to Forest ?

they paid good money for him and paid him not knowing history of bets ,

so when they find out that they have bought someone with this couldn't they sack him for withholding information that will effect his value and work ? 

[Icecream Snow 762]

It would depend on his employment contract, but especially after the Adrian Mutu affair, any decent lawyer would have a clause that would allow the club to terminate the contract if the player was unable to play due to off-field misconduct.

The question is if the club would enforce it or not. Troy Deeney was convicted of affray whilst at Watford, and Ivan Toney was suspended for betting breaches, but neither were sacked. But both of them were key players, rather than a fringe squad member. Chelsea sacked Bosnich and Mutu for failing drugs tests, and then sued Mutu to reclaim his transfer fee.

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

2 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

How would that work if he has not disclosed that to Forest ?

they paid good money for him and paid him not knowing history of bets ,

so when they find out that they have bought someone with this couldn't they sack him for withholding information that will effect his value and work ? 

I'd suspect it more likely there's a clause not to bring the club into disrepute, so it's less about what Toffolo has or has not told Forest and more about the behaviour he engaged in causing reputational damage to Forest simply by association with a banned individual. Much like the process with Toney, the FA enquiry will take time. Until that process is complete, I suspect he'll continue to be involved at Forest. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. 

Toffolo signed a two and a half year deal. He's now a year into that. If he faces a ban that will effectively keep him out of the remaining 18 months of the contract, I suspect that would leave Forest with three options.

1. Sack him. As explained above, that will require it's own process and a legal adjudication that could be costly and lengthy. 

2. Pay off his contract. Straight forward (in comparison to 1) and free from the risk of litigation, this bring an end to the matter for Forest. The downside is the obvious cost of paying 18m worth of wages and any fees due as part of the contract. 

3. Back him. If he has addiction issues, it could be within reason that Forest agrees to give Toffolo a chance to show he has addressed those issues. They may then allow him to fight for his place at Forest and earn a new deal. This shows Forest as a compassionate employer and may put Forest in a position to negotiate a reduction in Toffolo's salary saving some money. 

Anyway, as said, I suspect it'll take a few months before the FA enquiry comes to an end. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,359]

15 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

well that is so stupid if true ,

Worked his way back from all those injuries and and got to the PL at a good club and has thrown it away if found guilty 

Not condoning it but he’s had a terrible time with injuries. Maybe feeling low and the frustration got to him. Injured professional sportsmen are in a pretty lonely place.

[king canary 7,664]

16 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

For what it's worth, Toffolo has been charged with a breach of Rule E1(b), whereas Toney was charged with a breach of E8. I'm not sure, but it looks like Toffolo's is less serious?

Sounds like Toffolo didn't bet on his own team then? Will likely soften the punishment if that is the case.

Silly to do it though. Wonder where he got the idea to bet on football while playing in the SkyBet FL and playing with shirts advertising various different gambling sponsors. Mystery.

[CDMullins 446]

29 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Not condoning it but he’s had a terrible time with injuries. Maybe feeling low and the frustration got to him. Injured professional sportsmen are in a pretty lonely place.

Or maybe just a young lad who liked a little footy bet.

Betting integrity was part of my last role,

I was tasked with finding a certain up and coming centre mid from them down the road, placing a £10 football accumulator.

A ex-City player was in one of our shops during an armed robbery whilst staking £2k on a 'both teams to score bet'

A England players brother, staked £6k on him moving to Sevilla, a move that fell through.

A bunch of Czech U'18 players who staked less than a tenner between them on Czech football in their tracksuits as they were here to play England. L

In Bowls a chap walked in and backed his opponent at 1/2 because 'he had no chance of beating him' staking £40 to win £20.

One of our biggest hits was the day Venkys appointmented a new manager at Blackburn, we were hit at the same time with military precision in shops all around their head office.

[Google Bot 3,299]

2 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Injured professional sportsmen are in a pretty lonely place.

Yup, finding that replacement is hard.

I've not been a sportsman, but was part of a band who blew up about 15 years ago and had this 4 day purple patch where we performed live on BBC, then the following night ITV wanted us, and they even done a little spot beforehand where a reporter went round the local town with us interviewing people.

We then had a crew follow us which was filmed documentary/behind the scenes for a day, and ended up in playing in someone's living room that was broadcast live as a 'surprise'. (but it was all planned).

Then it all just dropped.  We had no gigs planned so couldn't even build on the momentum.  Went from having makeup people around us, centre of attention, interviewers, cameraman, broadcasting vans in the car park, with live broadcasting masts assembled.... to nothing!

It took me a week or so to readjust and stop craving more.   Remember going into work on the Monday and thinking what the hell is going on here.

And since then I really appreciate when you see certain celebrities desperate for the spotlight who's careers have gone pear shape, or when you hear of sportsmen explaining how hard it is to replace that adrenaline on matchday in front of a crowd.  It's a really awful feeling, we only felt 5 minutes of it but the drop off was massive.

It must be so much harder as a sportsman getting long term injuries too, as hear players explain the feeling of being useless and letting their family down.  Mental health man, it cannot be understated.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Google Bot

[norfolkngood 1,087]

3 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Not condoning it but he’s had a terrible time with injuries. Maybe feeling low and the frustration got to him. Injured professional sportsmen are in a pretty lonely place.

i was thinking exactly the same Injured bored at home pretty down have a few quid on some footy on tv 

one think leads to another over 6 months out 300 odd bets later 

[shefcanary 2,446]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66801383

He has received a suspended 5 month ban! Full reasons to be shared at a later date (?), but all offences happened whilst at Norwich, so over 6 years ago. Has he got off lightly vis-a-vis Toney? I guess none of the bets involved Norwich?

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

24 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66801383

He has received a suspended 5 month ban! Full reasons to be shared at a later date (?), but all offences happened whilst at Norwich, so over 6 years ago. Has he got off lightly vis-a-vis Toney? I guess none of the bets involved Norwich?

I was always baffled as to why we let him go. Perhaps we now know 

[Midlands Yellow 4,067]

No bets on us in the last ten matches last season? 

[Branston Pickle 3,683]

On 12/07/2023 at 15:46, Yobocop said:

Not sure the club would’ve known at that stage 

Had the club known and not informed the FA I would think we’d have committed a pretty big breach. 

[Yobocop 1,105]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Had the club known and not informed the FA I would think we’d have committed a pretty big breach. 

Agreed