Who wants david Wagner as head coach?

[2clubbanker 21]

He is dreadful I don’t even listen to the games now the team has no heart no fight and no leadership they have a soft underbelly that wants to be more political than what their job should be football. The along come Norwich…. 

[Conrad 178]

1 minute ago, 2clubbanker said:

He is dreadful I don’t even listen to the games now the team has no heart no fight and no leadership they have a soft underbelly that wants to be more political than what their job should be football. The along come Norwich…. 

You should see what it is actually like at Carrow Road. 😂

[Google Bot 3,316]

I do, yes.

[Top corner 229]

In my opinion, I think he needs to be given time to build his own squad, so this summer will give us a chance to see what he comes up with. If we appoint another Head Coach now (like Watford), who's to say he won't be terrible. If Wagner hasn't improved the team & performances by Christmas, then bin him. 

[Gordon Bennett 789]

I'm not fussed either way, however seeing as he has a promotion and a PL survival on his CV I would quite like to see what he can do with a pre season and a proper transfer window. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

2 minutes ago, Top corner said:

In my opinion, I think he needs to be given time to build his own squad, so this summer will give us a chance to see what he comes up with. If we appoint another Head Coach now (like Watford), who's to say he won't be terrible. If Wagner hasn't improved the team & performances by Christmas, then bin him. 

I don’t understand this logic. Why give a man who has left us bottom of the league over the last quarter of a season- and who failed abysmally in his last two appointments- such time and resources. Surely there is a LARGE risk you then Chuck good money after bad and will be left with players for a system nobody else wants half way through next season when he is sacked? Far better to call time- appoint someone on the up not the down and build round them? 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,801]

He's webbers best mate.

[Branston Pickle 3,689]

2 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

I'm not fussed either way, however seeing as he has a promotion and a PL survival on his CV I would quite like to see what he can do with a pre season and a proper transfer window. 

Pretty much - short termism is all well and good but he hasn’t had any chance with his own players or pre season.  We were - rather ridiculously - pretty limited for options in several areas come the last weeks of the season.

[hogesar 9,745]

5 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I don’t understand this logic. Why give a man who has left us bottom of the league over the last quarter of a season- and who failed abysmally in his last two appointments- such time and resources. Surely there is a LARGE risk you then Chuck good money after bad and will be left with players for a system nobody else wants half way through next season when he is sacked? Far better to call time- appoint someone on the up not the down and build round them? 

Because the type of player we recruit for him should be acceptable for any manager who also wants to play a high-press game. There's nothing to suggest we need to rip up the entire style or anything, we've barely even had a chance to see it because of the personnel available.

As for Wagner, he has proven credentials in this division. Not just with any sort of promotion either. A promotion with a team that had a wage bill of only £12 million. I'm not going to call for his head when he's barely had a CB or CM to play for the last however many games. Especially when you consider with a fully fit squad we did look considerably better and were averaging 2ppg.

[BroadstairsR 2,206]

If he's actually on a one year's rolling contract and dismissal wouldn't cost so much, then it is clear that he should go. The dismal end to the season means that he has to go. He just isn't working.

The factors in his favour ie. crucial injuries and not having his own players hardly outweigh his poor performance  

We are either having a re-build, clean sweep whatever or we are not. Retaining Wagner is in danger of the same old, and we can all guess what that means.

Whilst the god-awful Stuart Webber controls the club, then there's small chance of a new man.

Edited May 11, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[hogesar 9,745]

32 minutes ago, 2clubbanker said:

He is dreadful I don’t even listen to the games now the team has no heart no fight and no leadership they have a soft underbelly that wants to be more political than what their job should be football. The along come Norwich…. 

You wanted Steve Bruce to replace Farke

[ged in the onion bag 857]

Past achievements mean nothing in football, absolutely nothing.     Those ar e with different players, in differing set ups and mindsets.   
 

I want our coach to have a clear idea about football, one he openly advocates and passionately promotes.    One where players can express themselves and are encouraged to develop and thrive.   
 

His tenure so far hasn’t suggested he has the wherewithal since the players are disinterested, regressing and unmotivated.  If that were his interview then surely he wouldn’t get the job.    So why persist with it?    It’s a big risk so how does he intend to arrest the slide and kickstart progress?    Are they going to tell us?

[Bert 236]

He is clearly dreadful even worse than Dean Smith

we should be begging for Farke to come Back or the return of the Messia 

[Don’t be Krul 399]

All this "time to build his squad" maybe pretty irrelevant if there's no cash in the kitty and I don't see the queueing up for our assets. I hope he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If he can't, Colin can 😁

[Google Bot 3,316]

20 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I don’t understand this logic. Why give a man who has left us bottom of the league over the last quarter of a season

I don't understand the logic of judging one man on a series of events that proceeded him, and injuries to an already depleted team that was beyond his control.  If you need reminding this was Wagner in the first 10 games before we lost key players:

 

 

[Ulfotto 644]

The issue with Wagner is similar to Smith. He’s been hired mid season to primarily to try to get us back to the premier league. Like Smith was supposed to try to save us from relegation.

First objective was a failure now next season should be a clean slate but it won’t be that much is obvious. Therefore it is difficult to see next season being anything other than a retread of this season. Slow start, pickup, hang on it’s Not Farkeball, terrible home form, Webber out, Wagner out result being finishing mid table.

In my opinion he’ll be lucky to get to Christmas in a way I hope he struggles to  the end of next of season and then goes so we can actually have a proper reset.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Ulfotto

[S_81 861]

No point in Wagner going unless Webber goes. Personally I’d rather the pair of them were gone. But can’t see either going - unless the Leeds interest in Webber is serious. 

[Channon’s Windmill 334]

Irrelevant really, if Webber is here, which looks likely, Wagner will be. A reset would mean both going…not happening. 

[ged in the onion bag 857]

6 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I don't understand the logic of judging one man on a series of events that proceeded him, and injuries to an already depleted team that was beyond his control.  If you need reminding this was Wagner in the first 10 games before we lost key players:

 

 

How far we’ve fallen if the key players are now McLean, Hanley and Gibson, dear oh dear, what an absolute catastrophe of incompetence at our club.    These three shouldn’t be anywhere near starters by now, yet here we are.     
 

He took the job, he still plays unperforming forwards as wingers (and crucially never learned it was a mistake) and unproductive loanees (Marquinhos) instead of our own, ripping the heart out of the likes of Tzolis.    He still plays Giannoulis who has bottled more games than anyone I’ve ever seen when McCallum is an option.   
 

He still plays a formation that doesn’t suit the personnel available to him.   He doesn’t seem to have a plan B either!   
 

Of course, you could also argue that your chart there was helped by momentum of his arrival, a breath of different air from Smith, but that it’s now worn off.

[Mengo 825]

3 minutes ago, S_81 said:

No point in Wagner going unless Webber goes. Personally I’d rather the pair of them were gone. But can’t see either going - unless the Leeds interest in Webber is serious. 

Please , let it be! 🙏 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

17 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I don't understand the logic of judging one man on a series of events that proceeded him, and injuries to an already depleted team that was beyond his control.  If you need reminding this was Wagner in the first 10 games before we lost key players:

 

 

I don't see why not, given that this was exactly why Dean Smith was cut zero slack this season over failing at an impossible task keeping us up in the Premier League. Success for Wagner was a far more achievable prospect relative to expectations for this season, and he has failed miserably.

[sonyc 5,541]

A difficult one for me. I'm not into the vogue for constant hiring and firing. It reeks of weakness in any board, not trusting their own judgement to start with, let alone seemingly not having much of a medium term strategy. Yet, for all that, If I was a person on our board right now I would feel very nervous however about my choice (assuming the whole board sanctioned the choice).

I don't base my concerns on his personality, whether I like him or not. As a few have stated, I'm not bothered. But, I've not been impressed by many of his post match comments. Nor have I been impressed with the way he sets up games. Nor, his weird substitutions that defy logic (I should say and qualify that as merely a supporter watching on). Most of all, his results have been very poor. His recent comments about transfer windows also have alarmed me a bit. He has decided quite quickly that the team isn't good enough. But, we wait and see. I agree it's too early to dismiss him because he has barely been here. Yet, a thought won't leave my mind that he may well be the worst manager we've had in recent times. I have zero expectation of a decent pre season or a good start. I haven't felt as low as that for decades. I can't really work out why but something really isn't right in our club. I'm a very forgiving sort too and tended to defend the likes of Smith and Farke when others didn't. Hughton annoyed me in his playing set up but even then I could see his aims. I cannot with Wagner. I don't know what he is about.

I dislike arrogant people (like we all do I guess) and Webber fits that bill. I don't think he has the best interests of us but more of himself. I don't say that either lightly but base my thoughts on his own words - the astonishing things he has said. The non communication in the last 12 months is symptomatic.  It shows the man. Maybe it's a personality glitch? Maybe he just feels above everything. Maybe he does really care about Norwich City but is awkward in interviews? Maybe he is simply someone who doesn't enjoy the role he is in? It doesn't appear to me like he does. He barely can force a smile. He cannot take criticism, he cannot talk to the local press.

Yet he is apparently loved by Delia and Michael! They obviously know more than I. They will accept him - even 90% of him. My comment here is purely as a fan and what I see. My opinion is nevertheless a valid one and I don't even think I am alone at all. A lot of people / posters have stated similar things these last two years or so.

Something just isn't right is it? That MFW article pins it well and succinctly. As for the manager, I worry he is really going to be bad news for us and I think - and should stress...at this point...he may turn out to be one of the worst we've had when we start next year's campaign.

At this minute, I am not thinking about promotion in the next season but more about keeping our place in the Championship. Such is my negative stance. Just an intuition.

All could change in a few months time who knows. I will be a decent fan and try and be supportive of Wagner. We may hear more soon from him and Webber may open up about what is happening with ownership or generally illuminate the Norwich City canvas. It is a darkly painted one it seems to me. A lot of stuff is hidden. Ironic when we have a new media department. All surface fluff. I've seen it all before. The more a company shouts and all that. Fans want proper communication. They don't really bother about new fonts.

Feelings can change quickly can't they? I damn well hope someone is listening and fans get some explanations, some ideas of how their team will develop ahead. What might be the end of term mark I would give for the leadership of our lovely club? Maybe 2 out of 10 or 3 out of 10?. As pathetic really as the on field performances.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by sonyc
Condensing a lot of thoughts into one post!

[Google Bot 3,316]

17 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Of course, you could also argue that your chart there was helped by momentum of his arrival, a breath of different air from Smith, but that it’s now worn off.

Well it's all we have to go by when the squad (Already depleted due to Cantwell and Rashica not being part of it IMO) then suffered injuries to key players.

And yes, McLean and Dowell were the performers stepping up under him, and losing both your CBs is key too.

I've lost so much belief in him as coach here, but to look at things more objectively I think even if it's players of Dowell and McLean's standard he can have us as performing at this level.

I think that something which needs clarifying in the interview next week is where the line is drawn between coach and SD.  As I can't get my head around why we play Idah wide and not working on getting Tzolis game-time - Is it part of his remit to grow Idah as a first team player, or he genuinely thinks Idah is suitable to play that wide position over what we called one of the best young wide talents in Europe?

Edited May 11, 2023 by Google Bot

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Don't care at this stage.

Ask me again at Christmas 

[ged in the onion bag 857]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Well it's all we have to go by when the squad (Already depleted due to Cantwell and Rashica not being part of it IMO) then suffered injuries to key players.

And yes, McLean and Dowell were the performers stepping up under him, and losing both your CBs is key too.

I've lost so much belief in him as coach here, but to look at things more objectively I think even if it's players of Dowell and McLean's standard he can have us as performing at this level.

I note your comments but it’s not all we have to go by…. There’s the team selection, the formations, the lack of learning lessons, continuing to play Idah and Sargent as wingers, the lack of fight, passion, interest coming across from the players.     The one dimensional football…. 
 

… just doesn’t bode well.    

[Google Bot 3,316]

18 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Success for Wagner was a far more achievable prospect relative to expectations for this season, and he has failed miserably.

The club was on it's knees when Smith left, it was an awful time.  Wagner turned this around in a matter of weeks, got us into a good run of form, and then we watched as Dowell, McLean, Hanley and Gibson were out for the season.

I appreciate that you're bitter about Smith, but show a little bit of objectivity instead of playing the two managers off against each other.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Google Bot

[Google Bot 3,316]

4 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I note your comments but it’s not all we have to go by…. There’s the team selection, the formations, the lack of learning lessons, continuing to play Idah and Sargent as wingers, the lack of fight, passion, interest coming across from the players.     The one dimensional football…. 

Oh totally agree, but it was clear that he was taking on the role as club spokesman and trying to keep a positive moral going here.

I think we need to give him credit for how calm and measured he's been over this period, inside I don't doubt he's dying knowing that we lack the players to play how he wants us to.

How we went from the situation when Smith was here, to a fond farewell without incident around the ground in the final game, he's played a massive part in keeping things stable.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Google Bot

[Mello Yello 2,303]

We deffo need Waggo, Webbo and Zoe to remain here...It's crucial that they remain at this Club for at least 5 more years as we are a self-funding club in transition....and we'll have to learn to adapt and survive without them cushy parachute payments....Car boot sales are the way forward!....

The old adage...."If it's broken, don't attempt to fix it"....or summat like that?....

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

11 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

The club was on it's knees when Smith left, it was an awful time.  Wagner turned this around in a matter of weeks, got us into a good run of form, and then we watched as Dowell, McLean, Hanley and Gibson were out for the season.

I appreciate that you're bitter about Smith, but show a little bit of objectivity.

Objectively, Wagner's overall performance with the same group of players has been far inferior to Smiths in terms of results, finishing with a home loss to a relegated club. We have literally gone backwards, with those two spectacular results looking like a mere blip in retrospect.

Objectively, there was no basis for so many to be so persistently negative about Smith against the belief of the club that he could do the job for us this season and in spite of the objective evidence of actually being in the auto slots earlier in the season.

Objectively, we've finished the season millions of pounds worse off for sacking a manager for no benefit purely because so many fans wanted it regardless of any arguments against.

Trying to be objective around here is a waste of effort around here in the face of too many idiots who have no interest in it.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[hogesar 9,745]

11 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I think that something which needs clarifying in the interview next week is where the line is drawn between coach and SD.  As I can't get my head around why we play Idah wide and not working on getting Tzolis game-time - Is it part of his remit to grow Idah as a first team player, or he genuinely thinks Idah is suitable to play that wide position over what we called one of the best young wide talents in Europe?

Well, Webber spent £9 million on Tzolis so he'll be desperate to see a result from that - although I don't think he has "it" for English football.

However, something I didn't know and seemingly not spoken about is that Tzolis has only been a bit-part recently due to having to undertake national service for his country and thus missing training etc.