Heartbreaking

[The Real Buh 3,491]

14 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Nope, but you didn’t say he was a bad manager for us, you said ‘ he was a s*** manager ‘.

He is

[Nexus_Canary 1,038]

Just now, Helsinki canary said:

Today was the Colchester moment, total clean sweep needed at the top

Is this the bit where we steal the opposition coach 😬🤔

[raunds canary 218]

1 minute ago, Helsinki canary said:

Today was the Colchester moment, total clean sweep needed at the top

Totally agree with that. Angus Gunn is a slightly better keeper though 

[Helsinki canary 244]

2 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Is this the bit where we steal the opposition coach 😬🤔

You got it!

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,467]

I’ve just read Zoe’s programme notes. Mentions Russell Martin , Matt Gill and the ladies team. 
 

The phrase “out of your depth” is over used . In this particular cases however it is spot on. In a recent interview she said hers was a  wide ranging role . I think that means she isn’t very good at anything. 

[Herman 9,848]

15 minutes ago, Ian said:

A bit depressing to see how much we have regressed over the last couple of seasons.

What I can't seem to get away from is whether Webber is just a bit of a chancer who has ridden his luck substantially. Apparently the whole point of the DoF model was to keep a consistent playing style/identity and squad capable of achieving it regardless of coaching staff - clearly that was a lie given the current situation we find ourselves in.

 

Yep, that was what I always thought and was behind it. It feels like they got bored of the idea.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,899]

18 minutes ago, Ian said:

 Apparently the whole point of the DoF model was to keep a consistent playing style/identity and squad capable of achieving it regardless of coaching staff.

That is the point of it; apparently no-one told the club.

OTBC

[hogesar 9,786]

13 minutes ago, Helsinki canary said:

Today was the Colchester moment, total clean sweep needed at the top

There's a positive! The clubs moved so far forwards that a third tier 7-1 home defeat to Colchester is now on par with a 3-0 loss in the championship to Swansea with 10 men.

Wooo!

[Helsinki canary 244]

9 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I’ve just read Zoe’s programme notes. Mentions Russell Martin , Matt Gill and the ladies team. 
 

The phrase “out of your depth” is over used . In this particular cases however it is spot on. In a recent interview she said hers was a  wide ranging role . I think that means she isn’t very good at anything. 

Time both of them left our club

[Monty13 2,267]

41 minutes ago, king canary said:

We need a full reset from top to bottom. I'm really hoping we see a full takeover soon and we can look to go full new broom.

I’m not unconvinced that Attanasio isn’t quietly very happy with the current situation, ripe for a saviour to come in and take over now.

[Monty13 2,267]

23 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I’ve just read Zoe’s programme notes. Mentions Russell Martin , Matt Gill and the ladies team. 
 

The phrase “out of your depth” is over used . In this particular cases however it is spot on. In a recent interview she said hers was a  wide ranging role . I think that means she isn’t very good at anything. 

I always find it amusing at work when people can’t immediately and succinctly explain exactly what they do, I mean if you don’t know…

Wide ranging is such a cop out. If you’re a GM or even a CEO your job is technically responsible for a wide range of things (obviously), but it isn’t what you do.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Monty13

[Creative Midfielder 2,004]

1 hour ago, S_81 said:

Webber, that’s how. 
Sure - others will say the owners. And of course we can argue about what we could do with the bigger budget. 
But it’s clear that Webber will blow whatever budget he’s given. He’d just waste even more money. 
 

I blame the owners more for not getting rid of Webber than I do for their investment. 

Spot on - he should have been sacked 18 months ago rather than being allowed to scapegoat Farke.

Said so then, been saying it ever since and finally it seems that a majority are Carrow Road coming round to the same conclusion.

Better late than never I suppose but unfortunately the damage, which has been massive, is done and at the moment there seem very few grounds for optimism .

IMO Webber should go immediately and certainly have no say whatsoever in whether Wagner stays or goes, or in our transfer business this summer. Personally I would give Wagner longer but the first decision (after sacking Webber) the board have to make is surely whether or not the continue with the Director of Football model with a Head Coach or revert to a more traditional British football manager.

A couple of years ago that would have been a complete no brainer, but now I would suggest that it is very much in the balance - financially maybe we are still ahead(?) but the football side of the club is certainly in a worse state now than it was on Webber's arrival.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Creative Midfielder

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

8 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's a shame you're a ****.

It only bothers you because you know I'm right. 😘

[canarydan23 4,108]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It only bothers you because you know I'm a right b*llend. 😘

Indeed.

Edited April 22, 2023 by canarydan23

[Mengo 825]

13 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Spot on - he should have been sacked 18 months ago rather than being allowed to scapegoat Farke.

Said so then, been saying it ever since and finally it seems that a majority are Carrow Road coming round to the same conclusion.

Better late than never I suppose but unfortunately the damage, which has been massive, is done and at the moment there seem very few grounds for optimism .

IMO Webber should go immediately and certainly have no say whatsoever in whether Wagner stays or in our transfer business this summer. Personally I would give Wagner longer but the first decision (after sacking Webber) the board have to make is surely whether or not the continue with the Director of Football model with a Head Coach or revert to a more traditional British football manager.

A couple of years ago that would have been a complete no brainer, but now I would suggest that it is very much in the balance - financially maybe we are still ahead(?) but the football side of the club is certainly in a worse state now than it was on Webber's arrival.

 

This is the best and most accurate  post I have had the pleasure to read today. Thanks for your ability to put this excellent  dialogue together.

You are 💯 

[Ian 1,139]

1 hour ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

That is the point of it; apparently no-one told the club.

OTBC

 

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Yep, that was what I always thought and was behind it. It feels like they got bored of the idea.

Which begs the question how we got from that, to a board with no Chairman, no CEO, but a husband and wife duo.

It's difficult to argue we are in a worse situation as a whole then when Webber and Farke came in initially - particularly given the investment in the club facilities, but it's so depressing to think that we basically won the lottery with those first couple of Championship promotions and seem to have utterly wasted the opportunity.

Perhaps it's just the situation, but I feel like recruitment has been absolutely pitiful since Kieran Scott left - at least we had a Maddison to sell previously when in dire straights. Difficult to see any of our current squad commanding any sort of fee close to that.

[sonyc 5,541]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Spot on - he should have been sacked 18 months ago rather than being allowed to scapegoat Farke.

Said so then, been saying it ever since and finally it seems that a majority are Carrow Road coming round to the same conclusion.

Better late than never I suppose but unfortunately the damage, which has been massive, is done and at the moment there seem very few grounds for optimism .

IMO Webber should go immediately and certainly have no say whatsoever in whether Wagner stays or goes, or in our transfer business this summer. Personally I would give Wagner longer but the first decision (after sacking Webber) the board have to make is surely whether or not the continue with the Director of Football model with a Head Coach or revert to a more traditional British football manager.

A couple of years ago that would have been a complete no brainer, but now I would suggest that it is very much in the balance - financially maybe we are still ahead(?) but the football side of the club is certainly in a worse state now than it was on Webber's arrival.

 

I would agree with this. In my opinion the 'turning point' was Webber's incredible comment about how he we could rely on only 90% of him. And that if that wasn't good enough then he would understand. That our owners accepted that kind of statement was disappointing. It's not what I would want to hear from my most senior employee. And secondly, what kind of hubris to actually then state his views to the press and wider media. The rot really set in at that point. It caused damage (quite naturally) and a loss of trust for many fans, fans who give up so much of their time.

His ego has not been a good thing because he feels 'above' the club. His subsequent utterings also add weight. 

It's not that he didn't have success. He was rightly lauded for his success alongside DF. DF carried and led a lot of goodwill with us fans with Webber more in the background.

The governance at the club is questionable. It's been well covered in many threads.

The nub for me is that his time has come (and gone). His 90% nonsense changed my 'support' for him. I just began to see someone who was too big for his boots. Someone who believes in themselves is a strength but sometimes it becomes a weakness.

We should have acted a while ago. In appointing Smith he changed the whole strategy - a strategy he spent a good while asking us as fans to buy into.

I will be extremely pleased the day he leaves. I will feel gratitude and sadness when D & M leave. But...the time has come now for the former. As for him caring about Norwich City "more than anyone else on the planet" is a faux pas by Wagner too. And again, disappointing but I expect he heard the shouts of complaint and went into protective mode. 

Once the crowd start to verbally attack someone like a chief / sporting director it affects the whole club. And it's a pity it ever had to get like this. 

It is all a little Shakespearean. And in Hamlet the quote "something is rotten in the state of Denmark" gets close to it.

Edited April 22, 2023 by sonyc

[Ian 1,139]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

I would agree with this. In my opinion the 'turning point' was Webber's incredible comment about how he we could rely on only 90% of him. And that if that wasn't good enough then he would understand. That our owners accepted that kind of statement was disappointing. It's not what I would want to hear from my most senior employee. And secondly, what kind of hubris to actually then state his views to the press and wider media. The rot really set in at that point. It caused damage (quite naturally) and a loss of trust for many fans, fans who give up so much of their time.

Absolutely agree with that. Seems to show a lack of commitment and professionality stemming from the very top of the club. Perhaps that is unfair, but given the nature of Farke's sacking/the dismal Prem season, and then the above comments it does seem that a senior employee has an unacceptable level of comfort and job security to be able to share this with the media.

[canarydan23 4,108]

15 hours ago, hogesar said:

There's a positive! The clubs moved so far forwards that a third tier 7-1 home defeat to Colchester is now on par with a 3-0 loss in the championship to Swansea with 10 men.

Wooo!

I like how you add the 10 men bit in, leaving the possible implication that without the red card it might have been a different outcome.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,309]

15 hours ago, hogesar said:

There's a positive! The clubs moved so far forwards that a third tier 7-1 home defeat to Colchester is now on par with a 3-0 loss in the championship to Swansea with 10 men.

Wooo!

There you go, attempt to ridicule fellow supporters opinions in attempt to find a crumb of  personal comfort to the current demise.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Mello Yello 2,311]

15 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I’ve just read Zoe’s programme notes. Mentions Russell Martin , Matt Gill and the ladies team. 
 

The phrase “out of your depth” is over used . In this particular cases however it is spot on. In a recent interview she said hers was a  wide ranging role . I think that means she isn’t very good at anything. 

A jack of all trades....and master of none?.....

[hogesar 9,786]

13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I like how you add the 10 men bit in, leaving the possible implication that without the red card it might have been a different outcome.

Tongue in cheek, naturally.

5 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

There you go, attempt to ridicule fellow supporters opinions in attempt to find a crumb of  personal comfort to the current demise.

WTF are you on about, I'm not ridiculing a supporter whatsoever you freak. 

[dylanisabaddog 5,048]

16 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

I ended up enjoying it. I was there with my boy who only gets to 4 or 5 games and my father in law. Gallows humour all second half. Had some good laughs with the regulars around us.

Don't get me wrong,Webber is ****ing useless and Wagner is a total clown.

But being there at the full time whistle will be a badge of honour when we get promoted in the next few years. And the misery of today will make the 2027 Wembley Playoff Final victory that much sweeter.

It does all hinge on sacking the moronic Sporting Director, mind you.

I'm not sure that staying to the end is a good thing. It indicates support. The Board are far more likely to act if they are looking at an empty stadium with 15 minutes to go. 

[Danke bitte 967]

13 hours ago, sonyc said:

I would agree with this. In my opinion the 'turning point' was Webber's incredible comment about how he we could rely on only 90% of him. And that if that wasn't good enough then he would understand. That our owners accepted that kind of statement was disappointing. It's not what I would want to hear from my most senior employee. And secondly, what kind of hubris to actually then state his views to the press and wider media. The rot really set in at that point. It caused damage (quite naturally) and a loss of trust for many fans, fans who give up so much of their time.

His ego has not been a good thing because he feels 'above' the club. His subsequent utterings also add weight. 

It's not that he didn't have success. He was rightly lauded for his success alongside DF. DF carried and led a lot of goodwill with us fans with Webber more in the background.

The governance at the club is questionable. It's been well covered in many threads.

The nub for me is that his time has come (and gone). His 90% nonsense changed my 'support' for him. I just began to see someone who was too big for his boots. Someone who believes in themselves is a strength but sometimes it becomes a weakness.

We should have acted a while ago. In appointing Smith he changed the whole strategy - a strategy he spent a good while asking us as fans to buy into.

I will be extremely pleased the day he leaves. I will feel gratitude and sadness when D & M leave. But...the time has come now for the former. As for him caring about Norwich City "more than anyone else on the planet" is a faux pas by Wagner too. And again, disappointing but I expect he heard the shouts of complaint and went into protective mode. 

Once the crowd start to verbally attack someone like a chief / sporting director it affects the whole club. And it's a pity it ever had to get like this. 

It is all a little Shakespearean. And in Hamlet the quote "something is rotten in the state of Denmark" gets close to it.

It’s sad. I liked Webber. His brusqueness when coming in those years ago was a genuinely a breath of fresh air. I also gave him the benefit of the doubt with the second PL transfer window attempt going south. 

Though the sacking of Farke was a poor decision equally Farke’s record was atrocious. But then what would we do? Webber, in appointing Smith, was foolish in that it was knee jerk. In hindsight it was just a chance to get in a coach that had Prem experience who was free. I think we can all agree on that. 

Im desperate for Webber to turn this around, maybe because I’m sentimental and he did a great job with the recruitment in 18/19 and I’m blinded by it. The landscape has changed anyway now so I’m not so sure Webber will ever be able to get in such Moneyball players. Add to that Kieran Scott was also largely culpable at that time we can also safely say Webber’s recruitment has been patchy since Scott’s tenure ended. 

A lot of people feel Adams will fill the role of Webber should he leave and he will if it’s bed sheets at 50 paces. But Adams leaves me feeling very much of the “job for the boys” mindset. But who else is out there? Who else would come to what, at the moment, is a club in transition and with a fan base so fractured? It’s not just the day to day you have to work it’s the hearts and minds.

Im not saying Webber is better the devil, I’m just trying to find a modicum of positivity in all this. But I get the impression he’s merely a dead man walking.

[Branston Pickle 3,725]

16 hours ago, hogesar said:

There's a positive! The clubs moved so far forwards that a third tier 7-1 home defeat to Colchester is now on par with a 3-0 loss in the championship to Swansea with 10 men.

Wooo!

It is odd, isn’t it… to me the two aren’t remotely comparable, but it’s very easy to get caught up in the ‘this is the worst…’ thing when it actually isn’t.  We’re a long way from that Colchester performance, indeed a long way from the dreadful mid-late 90s rubbish… the difference is that we know the good performances are in there somewhere beneath the surface (Millwall, Blackburn), if not at home where I think I’m right that we’ve not scored for 7 hours of play. 

But it’s obviously far from great - our performance levels have dipped well beyond what’s ok; there are mitigating circumstances with injuries in key areas, but in defence we really only have two cb’s out - that shouldn’t lead to a complete capitulation (particularly as Gibson is often in-and-out of the side). Are we that reliant on Hanley that we can’t function without him? Or Kenny?  That surely lies at the door of those responsible for our squad/transfer policy, we’ve had issues in defence for so many years and always seem to be short.

To me, the saddest thing was that it was the much-derided Russell Martin and his side that helped to show what we should be doing rather than what we are, in terms of being a ball-playing side.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,309]

45 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Tongue in cheek, naturally.

WTF are you on about, I'm not ridiculing a supporter whatsoever you freak. 

Oh the irony..

[hogesar 9,786]

1 minute ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Oh the irony..

Maybe don't make things up then, it comes across a little mental. 

I made a light hearted comment about our previous lows as a club and you decided it was ridiculing fans. That's pathetic.

[Mello Yello 2,311]

Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault!....

Ner ner nee ner ner....

Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault!....

Ner ner nee ner ner....

Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault....Fans fault!....

Ner ner nee ner ner....

....Ad Infinitum....tum....tum....tum....

[canarydan23 4,108]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I'm not sure that staying to the end is a good thing. It indicates support. The Board are far more likely to act if they are looking at an empty stadium with 15 minutes to go. 

Doubt they care, if was empty at kick off they might act. People leaving early have still paid.

[Crafty Canary 511]

Who cares, wére ****e when we want. The club will go on but st what level who lnows.