Squad Overhaul

[Fen Canary 868]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t believe the squad is in need of the major surgery that some on here claim is needed. With the likes of Gunn, Aaros, Omo, Byram, McCallum, Dowell, Sara, Tzolis, Lungi, Nunez, Rowe, Gibbs and Sargent (when actually played as a striker rather than on the wing) there’s the core of a decent team there at this level, all of whom except Gunn are under 25.

What we’re missing is a few old warhorses like a Malky, Tettey or Holt down the spine of the team who have the experience to know when to put the boot in, slow the tempo, bring it back under control etc. As we saw yesterday we were the better side unto the first goal went in then it just fell to pieces, it just needed a couple of old heads in there to calm the youngsters and start again.

I know Webber & co look for players that will have a sell on value, but it’s pointless looking to the future if it means neglecting the present. Hopefully the Americans put some money in over the close season so we’re able to get a few older lads on higher wages that we can effectively write off just to bring the youngsters along 

[unique 439]

3 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t believe the squad is in need of the major surgery that some on here claim is needed. With the likes of Gunn, Aaros, Omo, Byram, McCallum, Dowell, Sara, Tzolis, Lungi, Nunez, Rowe, Gibbs and Sargent (when actually played as a striker rather than on the wing) there’s the core of a decent team there at this level, all of whom except Gunn are under 25.

What we’re missing is a few old warhorses like a Malky, Tettey or Holt down the spine of the team who have the experience to know when to put the boot in, slow the tempo, bring it back under control etc. As we saw yesterday we were the better side unto the first goal went in then it just fell to pieces, it just needed a couple of old heads in there to calm the youngsters and start again.

I know Webber & co look for players that will have a sell on value, but it’s pointless looking to the future if it means neglecting the present. Hopefully the Americans put some money in over the close season so we’re able to get a few older lads on higher wages that we can effectively write off just to bring the youngsters along 

I would retain McCallum and Sara, maybe Rowe. That’s less than 25% of your ‘satisfactory’ list.

Time to ditch mediocrity and make a serious attempt at promotion.

[Ulfotto 644]

I would tend to agree with this the balance still is not right in midfield and this needs sorting in the summer. 
 

I feel next season may stand or fall on the loan signing we make get say two midfield players if the quality of Olly Skipp and Harrison Reed and we should be challenging for the playoffs.

[Fen Canary 868]

1 minute ago, Ulfotto said:

I would tend to agree with this the balance still is not right in midfield and this needs sorting in the summer. 
 

I feel next season may stand or fall on the loan signing we make get say two midfield players if the quality of Olly Skipp and Harrison Reed and we should be challenging for the playoffs.

Definitely. I’m not suggesting we try and ram them all into the starting line up, we need a bit of experience to compliment and balance the side but to me there’s enough talent there to swap and change over the course of a season to finish up in the playoffs if the manager can get them playing as a cohesive unit, and that needs some leaders on the pitch.

Looking at the teams in the playoffs I don’t think on paper too many of their contracted players are any better than ours. However the first teams are more balanced/settled and they’ve made much better use of the loan system 

[canarybubbles 1,946]

8 hours ago, unique said:

I would retain McCallum and Sara, maybe Rowe. That’s less than 25% of your ‘satisfactory’ list.

Time to ditch mediocrity and make a serious attempt at promotion.

Ditching mediocrity is all very well, but people who want this total clear-out of players seem to assume this is a simple process, like buying a new pair of shoes when the old ones wear out. What if we just replace the existing mediocrity with a different mediocrity? Lots of money spent for no gain.

We're in the Championship and supporters are talking as if we can swoop and pick up a group of players who are almost good enough for the PL. Personally I agree with the OP that there is the makings of a good side at CR, at least for the Championship. Sara in particular has the potential to be a fantastic player at this level. Build the team around him and get some solid, unspectacular midfielders to support him.

Again, easier said than done, especially since Webber seems to have little ability to imagine how players might work together as a unit. And will probably flog Sara and spaff the money up the wall on a couple of useless loans.

 

[mr footy 36]

No promotion, No investment.

[Yellow and Green 335]

I agree with the OP, however I wonder if they feel that Haley, Gibson and McLean offer that experience already. They may even feel that we wouldn't have capitulated in that manner if they were playing vs Borough. 

The starting eleven has been incredibly young since they were injured (youngest in 14 years according to ncfc numbers), so it may be something that they'll consider but, as you alluded to, they won't spend much on players like that. 

40 minutes ago, mr footy said:

No promotion, No investment.

True. It will be a case of selling the likes of Aarons in order to raise funds for new signings.

[Fen Canary 868]

14 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

I agree with the OP, however I wonder if they feel that Haley, Gibson and McLean offer that experience already. They may even feel that we wouldn't have capitulated in that manner if they were playing vs Borough. 

The starting eleven has been incredibly young since they were injured (youngest in 14 years according to ncfc numbers), so it may be something that they'll consider but, as you alluded to, they won't spend much on players like that. 

True. It will be a case of selling the likes of Aarons in order to raise funds for new signings.

There’s experience there with those players, but I just don’t see the sheer hard headedness (probably not a real word but you know what I mean) that you used to get from the players I’ve mentioned.

Hopefully the yanks can chuck some money in to cover the wages of an old bruiser who has dragged a few teams away from relegation 

[Channon’s Windmill 334]

I am at the stage that I have never been before whilst supporting City, couldn’t care less if they all moved on, no attachment to any of them. 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

11 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t believe the squad is in need of the major surgery that some on here claim is needed. With the likes of Gunn, Aaros, Omo, Byram, McCallum, Dowell, Sara, Tzolis, Lungi, Nunez, Rowe, Gibbs and Sargent (when actually played as a striker rather than on the wing) there’s the core of a decent team there at this level, all of whom except Gunn are under 25.

What we’re missing is a few old warhorses like a Malky, Tettey or Holt down the spine of the team who have the experience to know when to put the boot in, slow the tempo, bring it back under control etc. As we saw yesterday we were the better side unto the first goal went in then it just fell to pieces, it just needed a couple of old heads in there to calm the youngsters and start again.

I know Webber & co look for players that will have a sell on value, but it’s pointless looking to the future if it means neglecting the present. Hopefully the Americans put some money in over the close season so we’re able to get a few older lads on higher wages that we can effectively write off just to bring the youngsters along 

I somewhat agree. There’s clearly some very serviceable players at this level or we wouldn’t be a point off the playoffs despite everything.

For all the flack Gibbo and Hanley get, rightly or wrongly, it was clear as day to see what was missing in the Boro drubbing.

It boils down to 4 areas we are in transition with:

Goalkeeper: Angus has just about claimed the no. 1 spot from Krul so there’s a bit of a “changing of the guard” whilst he finds out what works with him and his ever changing defence which brings me to:

Defence: Again, the consistent Gibbo/Hanley axis is now finished. Hanley will do well to ever be the same player again with this current injury and Gibbo hasn’t really found his best form since that promotion season, perhaps due to inconsistent minutes and defensive shapes.

Big Andy whilst a huge talent is still fairly raw but hopefully comes out of this season and a good full pre season an elite championship defender. He can use the summer to nail down that defensive partnership with either Gibbo or A.N. Other.

The full backs, similar to Liverpools, I feel like Dimi needs to be in a side on the front foot where he does his best work. Currently with the centre back pairing unsettled and lack of a pure DM, Dimis defensive frailties are exposed. Max on the right is perhaps a more rounded player so less troubled by this but tbh it’s at a point where he’s stagnated for 2 years now (other than some solid experience) and he needs to move on if he has ambitions as lofty as his clear potential deserves. Bali Mumba is such an obvious replacement that now is the time to cash in (assuming we stay down and potentially even if we went up). McAllum has the traits required to be decent enough and is still young, but like Big Andy, he’s still raw and needs more experience to make better decisions under pressure. I’m not fully convinced by him but would say he’s more rounded and has more potential than Dimi. Byram for all his positives probably needs to either go in summer or take a huge wage cut. I’d be pretty happy with the latter tbf as when he does play he’s our best full back. Just he can’t be relied on.

Midfield: The Hayden deal was probably the least successful of the year thanks to his injuries. It’s left us completely exposed and while Kenny did a reasonable job stepping in, it’s not his natural position and it has at times shown. Now he’s out too, that area of the pitch is an absolute train wreck. Sorenson flatters to deceive and probably isn’t helped by us having to make full use of his versatility too often. For me, this probably remains the key area.

Further forward, Sara has been an excellent presence recently but probably doesn’t fill the massive Emi/Wes/Maddison void that remains. He’s more of an 8. Cantwell was possibly the biggest let down this season as this was finally the year he could have made that AM magician slot his own. Dowell gave it a good go but he’s limited. As for the wide men, we don’t seem to have an idea at all what we are doing tactically which hampers the likes of Tzolis/Onel/Whoever plays there. Brings me on to the forwards.

Forward: A huge changing of the guard situation here. Pukki is such a different style of striker to Sargent and Idah that we completely need to revamp our style. No longer can we tiki taka it about in tight spaces to then send Pukki in with a through ball. Idah and Sargent are more a target man type of threat. They’d possibly suit us going to a more robust 4-4-2 system which may not be as pleasing on the eye but would be more effective. See Everton home last season for Idahs best game for us and the tactics we employed that day. That for me should be the benchmark.

Conclusion: Given the need to change to a more physical/direct attacking approach, we need to shift the formation to either 4-4-2 or 5-3-2 wing backs. The 4-4-2 needs to find 4 guys on the sides that can put the hard yards in with the 2 in the middle being deeper lying. I’d argue we potentially need to look at using someone more defensively solid than Kenny next to Sara in the middle if we went this way.

Personally, I feel it’s time to go to 5-3-2. This enables us to bring the best out of our attacking full backs, give Sara or Gibbs or possibly both an opportunity to get further forward and not be as exposed. Sadly, this leaves us thin on the ground of who actually plays in that back 3. Andy can play any of the 3 slots, Gibbo in a settled back line could be effective but he’s not the most reliable. with Hanley more or less done, we need realistically at least 2 new centre backs. At least one of these needs to be an experienced personality as well.

Ideally, I’d go:

Gunn

Sorenson/New guy, Big Andy, Gibbo/New guy

Onel/Mumba, Dimi/McAllum 

Gibbs/Maclean, New Guy, Sara

Sargent/Idah/New guy

Theres a decent chunk of players I’ve not even mentioned. Nunez for all his talent, I’m not sure what he is. Perhaps he’s stays and challenges Gibbs/Kenny for a slot as mezzala in the middle?Tzolis is a busted flush, Marquinhos probably not the right type of player for the new system, Hayden a crock, Krul probably finished and deserves better than being our clear back up for his twighlight years but if he’s okay with less pay then I’d happily keep him about. There’s also the youth. Rowe, Springett, Kamara, perhaps Martin, Tompkinson, Aboh could surprise us with a solid pre season?

For all Webbers recent decline in popularity, his whole schtick was around the long term security of the club and a huge part of that is the youth system. This has to start bearing fruit now with both some solid finances coming in from sales and from some good, solid talent actually finding its way to the pitch and being at the very least up for mid table championship standard with an occasional wonderkid come through that can be the difference for us.

For me, summer needs to be a clear out of the bloated squad, setting Aarons free and a few careful but shrewd purchases rather than overhaul. Particularly, a new centre back and defensive mid have to work or we are going nowhere fast.

[Robert N. LiM 4,500]

11 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t believe the squad is in need of the major surgery that some on here claim is needed.

Not unpopular with me - I think you're absolutely right. I think there is some very delicate, precise surgery needed, identifying those players who can provide leadership and mental strength to influence the younger ones, and shipping out those who are too scarred by our recent failures. Get it right and I think we could turn things round pretty quickly. But it will take the sort of clarity of thinking we've lacked over the last couple of years.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

I could literally count on one hand how many of the current squad I would keep. Probably an unpopular opinion, but Aaron’s is one I’m really not bothered about going and think a steady right back at this level is a better option

[Bovril 219]

2 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I somewhat agree. There’s clearly some very serviceable players at this level or we wouldn’t be a point off the playoffs despite everything.

For all the flack Gibbo and Hanley get, rightly or wrongly, it was clear as day to see what was missing in the Boro drubbing.

It boils down to 4 areas we are in transition with:

Goalkeeper: Angus has just about claimed the no. 1 spot from Krul so there’s a bit of a “changing of the guard” whilst he finds out what works with him and his ever changing defence which brings me to:

Defence: Again, the consistent Gibbo/Hanley axis is now finished. Hanley will do well to ever be the same player again with this current injury and Gibbo hasn’t really found his best form since that promotion season, perhaps due to inconsistent minutes and defensive shapes.

Big Andy whilst a huge talent is still fairly raw but hopefully comes out of this season and a good full pre season an elite championship defender. He can use the summer to nail down that defensive partnership with either Gibbo or A.N. Other.

The full backs, similar to Liverpools, I feel like Dimi needs to be in a side on the front foot where he does his best work. Currently with the centre back pairing unsettled and lack of a pure DM, Dimis defensive frailties are exposed. Max on the right is perhaps a more rounded player so less troubled by this but tbh it’s at a point where he’s stagnated for 2 years now (other than some solid experience) and he needs to move on if he has ambitions as lofty as his clear potential deserves. Bali Mumba is such an obvious replacement that now is the time to cash in (assuming we stay down and potentially even if we went up). McAllum has the traits required to be decent enough and is still young, but like Big Andy, he’s still raw and needs more experience to make better decisions under pressure. I’m not fully convinced by him but would say he’s more rounded and has more potential than Dimi. Byram for all his positives probably needs to either go in summer or take a huge wage cut. I’d be pretty happy with the latter tbf as when he does play he’s our best full back. Just he can’t be relied on.

Midfield: The Hayden deal was probably the least successful of the year thanks to his injuries. It’s left us completely exposed and while Kenny did a reasonable job stepping in, it’s not his natural position and it has at times shown. Now he’s out too, that area of the pitch is an absolute train wreck. Sorenson flatters to deceive and probably isn’t helped by us having to make full use of his versatility too often. For me, this probably remains the key area.

Further forward, Sara has been an excellent presence recently but probably doesn’t fill the massive Emi/Wes/Maddison void that remains. He’s more of an 8. Cantwell was possibly the biggest let down this season as this was finally the year he could have made that AM magician slot his own. Dowell gave it a good go but he’s limited. As for the wide men, we don’t seem to have an idea at all what we are doing tactically which hampers the likes of Tzolis/Onel/Whoever plays there. Brings me on to the forwards.

Forward: A huge changing of the guard situation here. Pukki is such a different style of striker to Sargent and Idah that we completely need to revamp our style. No longer can we tiki taka it about in tight spaces to then send Pukki in with a through ball. Idah and Sargent are more a target man type of threat. They’d possibly suit us going to a more robust 4-4-2 system which may not be as pleasing on the eye but would be more effective. See Everton home last season for Idahs best game for us and the tactics we employed that day. That for me should be the benchmark.

Conclusion: Given the need to change to a more physical/direct attacking approach, we need to shift the formation to either 4-4-2 or 5-3-2 wing backs. The 4-4-2 needs to find 4 guys on the sides that can put the hard yards in with the 2 in the middle being deeper lying. I’d argue we potentially need to look at using someone more defensively solid than Kenny next to Sara in the middle if we went this way.

Personally, I feel it’s time to go to 5-3-2. This enables us to bring the best out of our attacking full backs, give Sara or Gibbs or possibly both an opportunity to get further forward and not be as exposed. Sadly, this leaves us thin on the ground of who actually plays in that back 3. Andy can play any of the 3 slots, Gibbo in a settled back line could be effective but he’s not the most reliable. with Hanley more or less done, we need realistically at least 2 new centre backs. At least one of these needs to be an experienced personality as well.

Ideally, I’d go:

Gunn

Sorenson/New guy, Big Andy, Gibbo/New guy

Onel/Mumba, Dimi/McAllum 

Gibbs/Maclean, New Guy, Sara

Sargent/Idah/New guy

Theres a decent chunk of players I’ve not even mentioned. Nunez for all his talent, I’m not sure what he is. Perhaps he’s stays and challenges Gibbs/Kenny for a slot as mezzala in the middle?Tzolis is a busted flush, Marquinhos probably not the right type of player for the new system, Hayden a crock, Krul probably finished and deserves better than being our clear back up for his twighlight years but if he’s okay with less pay then I’d happily keep him about. There’s also the youth. Rowe, Springett, Kamara, perhaps Martin, Tompkinson, Aboh could surprise us with a solid pre season?

For all Webbers recent decline in popularity, his whole schtick was around the long term security of the club and a huge part of that is the youth system. This has to start bearing fruit now with both some solid finances coming in from sales and from some good, solid talent actually finding its way to the pitch and being at the very least up for mid table championship standard with an occasional wonderkid come through that can be the difference for us.

For me, summer needs to be a clear out of the bloated squad, setting Aarons free and a few careful but shrewd purchases rather than overhaul. Particularly, a new centre back and defensive mid have to work or we are going nowhere fast.

Agree with a lot of this. I think we have to go 5-3-2. Unfortunately that means a lot of new players are needed. They don't have to be world-beaters but grafters in the Paul Lambert era mold. We also need a true leader, either in that 'New Guy' slot in the centre of midfielder or a Grant Holt esque striker or preferably both. 

[Monty13 2,252]

13 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t believe the squad is in need of the major surgery that some on here claim is needed. With the likes of Gunn, Aaros, Omo, Byram, McCallum, Dowell, Sara, Tzolis, Lungi, Nunez, Rowe, Gibbs and Sargent (when actually played as a striker rather than on the wing) there’s the core of a decent team there at this level, all of whom except Gunn are under 25.

What we’re missing is a few old warhorses like a Malky, Tettey or Holt down the spine of the team who have the experience to know when to put the boot in, slow the tempo, bring it back under control etc. As we saw yesterday we were the better side unto the first goal went in then it just fell to pieces, it just needed a couple of old heads in there to calm the youngsters and start again.

I know Webber & co look for players that will have a sell on value, but it’s pointless looking to the future if it means neglecting the present. Hopefully the Americans put some money in over the close season so we’re able to get a few older lads on higher wages that we can effectively write off just to bring the youngsters along 

I thought very much like this last summer, that all that was needed was a few key additions to the existing squad. While I don’t think we got those additions right I’m happy to hold my hands up and say that based on evidence this year a more thorough rebuild is probably needed.

There’s too many underperforming, not mentally strong enough and not hungry enough for this team to succeed.

Theres at least a few on your list that need to go, or go out on loan and prove their worth IMO.

[Mello Yello 2,303]

Our footballing scouts just need to plonk themselves down in front of the telly box on Saturday evening (some may do) and closely watch all the EFL highlights for homegrown and UK based prospective and future NCFC players....There's some blossoming talent in them lower leagues....and I'm sure these players would bite our hand off to play for us.....Then once the scouts are heads up on these suitable targets that are identified, then go and watch these players performances both playing home and away for their current clubs for half a dozen games or so....including their attitude, integrity, social lifestyles, hobbies, interests and behaviour etc, and including their previous history when they're not kicking a ball about....

We know that one sterling performance doesn't mean they'll be consistent....and they may have skellingtons in da cupboard?....

See, I could do Webbo's job....

Right I'm gonna now look on Google and YouTube to see if there's anything in layman's terms on teach yourself construction and basic architecture - and how to baffle folk with bovine botty plops and blag a contract.....Then as soon as those from across the pond get their feet in the door I'll sincerely offer my tender to build a new city stand for a cut price....Breeze blocks aren't that expensive....are they?.....

Oh and I've also been up Ben Nevis.....(and that's not a euphemism by the way).....

Edited April 16, 2023 by Mello Yello
added extra

[Conrad 178]

3 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

I could literally count on one hand how many of the current squad I would keep. Probably an unpopular opinion, but Aaron’s is one I’m really not bothered about going and think a steady right back at this level is a better option

If we could get better players in, then all are expendable. It is not possible to determine who will become available and at a cost that we can afford, so the recruitment team should be looking at improving all positions. 

[Branston Pickle 3,690]

17 minutes ago, Conrad said:

If we could get better players in, then all are expendable. It is not possible to determine who will become available and at a cost that we can afford, so the recruitment team should be looking at improving all positions. 

Tbh that’s the case for all sides every season, at all levels.  Everyone is, or should be, looking to constantly get better players in and succession plan for guys leaving.  The problem is we’re competing with everyone else trying to do the same thing - it can’t be easy.

[Conrad 178]

16 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Tbh that’s the case for all sides every season, at all levels.  Everyone is, or should be, looking to constantly get better players in and succession plan for guys leaving.  The problem is we’re competing with everyone else trying to do the same thing - it can’t be easy.

Oh I agree, but some posters on here seem to think that we can 'pick and choose' who we get to keep and stipulate who we get to replace. In my view, look for improvement in all positions whilst realising that will not happen. 

It may be that we have to keep some that we would ideally like to see replaced whilst replacing some that initially thought beneficial to keep. As you say, not easy. All we can hope for is an overall improvement in the team. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 hours ago, Channon’s Windmill said:

I am at the stage that I have never been before whilst supporting City, couldn’t care less if they all moved on, no attachment to any of them. 

I have similar feelings toward the squad. At one time I was similar to many on here who won't have a word said against a player purely because he was one of ours. Now they are almost commodities that come and go.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

3 hours ago, Conrad said:

If we could get better players in, then all are expendable. It is not possible to determine who will become available and at a cost that we can afford, so the recruitment team should be looking at improving all positions. 

The bigger issue is shipping this tripe out

[sgncfc 1,259]

If you keep going with the same players you'll get the same results. Gunn, Macallum, Gibbs, Sara, Andy O, Sargent and 4 experienced new boys at right back, centre back, number 10 and CDM supplemented by the best of our under 23s.

Unfortunately, getting rid of the rest may prove difficult.

[unique 439]

The squad has no personality and even less resilience.

How many games have we gone a goal down yet gone on to win the game over the past two seasons? Few or none, I would guess, which is a fair indication of the squad’s character..

Offering Idah a new five-year deal, knowing full well that Pukki was leaving, is an appalling message to the fans as to the club’s ambition. If Ben Gibson is indeed one of the highest paid players in the squad

I can’t be ar*ed to finish my argument….apathy has risen its ugly head……

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

5 hours ago, sgncfc said:

If you keep going with the same players you'll get the same results. Gunn, Macallum, Gibbs, Sara, Andy O, Sargent and 4 experienced new boys at right back, centre back, number 10 and CDM supplemented by the best of our under 23s.

Unfortunately, getting rid of the rest may prove difficult.

I sometimes don’t think it takes all that much to completely transform a side. Think just how badly Virgil Van Dijks big injury killed Liverpool last season or Man U without Casemiro.

Theres some decent enough players there already for the most part, they just lack that extra weapon or 2 required to make the difference. Look at Luton flying high with a pretty average side. Just Drameh providing a bit of magic and a strong forward line that know their strengths and limitations and play to the former in Carlton Morris. Bar those two they are absolutely bang average yet sit pretty in the playoffs since they’re all humble and disciplined enough to stick to the plan.

The right “1 or 2 weapons” and Norwich will be flying again at this level too.

[7HAR1980 110]

The backbone of our squad that last got us promotion is crooked and broken. They have failed this season.

Krul, Aarons, Hanley, Gibson, McLean, Pukki, Hernandez. All need to go. Giannoulis is not a good defender.

We need to create a new backbone and with little funds.

Gunn

Mumba, Omo, Tomkinson, Macallum

Gibbs, Sorenson, Sara

Tzolis, Sargent, Rowe 

Young and raw? Flair and fast paced? How can you create a new backbone if you don't play them and give them time?

We'd need to recruit another cb, dcm, st and maybe winger.

 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

We are in a real rut.  For me the squad needs grouping. 

We have a large group of ageing players with nothing much to prove who need to go but who will be hard to sell, happy to stay and no longer busting a gut for promotion due to trauma of recent prem seasons which proved they are not good enough for it. In this bag stick: Kenny, Krul Gibson, hanley, Dowell, Pukki etc

Then we have young players who might yet blossom but are currently only bang average championship standard: Gunn, Sargent,  big Andy, Gibbs, Mumba, McCallum & Nunez. There is value in these -especially big Andy -so they need to stay and blossom. And it is a big group- so there is some hope though not all will make the grade. Give them some leadership and experienced pros to learn from but not from the first group above. Sticking with the above is a guarantee of stagnation. 

we have two saleable assets who will probably leave to finance new players - Sara and Aarons. Max merits a move now but selling Sara would move us two steps back before we move forward- like when we lost Emi. He has to stay (he probably won’t) 

then we have players not good enough like idah and Tzolis. Alas they are “highly rated” and yet only currently L1 or L2 standard. They should be shipped out on loan to prove themselves or not. Idaho’s reward of a huge contract for never having taken his opportunity was insane- why does he need to work for it if handed on a plate? 

that leaves the rest who are good enough squad players but nothing more: Sorenson, Onel, etc 

 Bottom line - the players we need to sell will be the ones nobody else wants. The ones we need to keep will be the ones we can sell. A tricky window ahead and the current recruitment team have been woeful ever since we let Middlesbrough poach the best talent spotter we had in years. Oh and we lack money. Hold onto your hats- I suspect we will ne heading for stagnation not improvment unless takeover happens very quickly 

[king canary 7,679]

I think there are a couple of things to consider...

1. We have a few players who 'should' be good but in reality don't seem to be. Sorenson is a perfect example. On paper he seems like he should be great. I've seen flashes of his abilities in games- he is calm on the ball, seems to know how to pick a pass, isn't slow etc etc. Yet he can't pull it all together. In central midfield his lack of physicality gets exposed. In central defence his lack of positional sense gets exposed. At fullback it all gets exposed. We need to stop relying on players like this.
2. We've also got to look at those who's mental scars run deep from the recent poor seasons. I know I pick on him a lot but Hanley is a key example of this. At the start of the season I was making the argument that he was easily good enough for a team chasing promotion. However he's underperformed that this season and changes of managers don't seem to be able to restore his confidence. It may be that a change of scenery works for both of us- he can have a fresh start away from the memories of humiliating relegations, we can add fresh leadership and steel to the spine of the team.

I do agree with your central point though @Fen Canary, that we shouldn't be looking to go too far down our standard route of signing 21 year olds from different countries who need time to adjust and instead look at adding a couple of experienced leaders who can help the existing group develop. For instance players like Shane Duffy and Adam Foreshaw might not get pulses racing but both are out of contract this summer, both might add something we're missing.

[norfolkngood 1,090]

our Recruitment let us down and i can not see how it will improve with webber still here 

With hindsight how these players have joined or were at lesser teams at the time of our PL 

Jack clarke went to sunderland better than Tzolis and Rashica 

Howson at middlesborough when we were in PL better than most of our midfield 

Viktor Gyökeres from Coventry better than Sargent 

when we were going up with money these were the players we should have been looking at Hindsight is wonderful but other clubs recruitment has been better 

 

[Capt. Pants 4,278]

We might get good offers for Sara, Aarons and Omobamidele but other than that I can't see any of the current squad leaving.

Realistically we're going to have to lose those out of contract just to create wriggle room to fund new players wages. The injury to Hanley means we need at least 1 quality centre back, probably two. A striker better than Sargent and Idah is also vital.

I just hope we go for a bit of experience and preferably players a bit closer to home than South America.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

On 16/04/2023 at 08:55, Channon’s Windmill said:

I am at the stage that I have never been before whilst supporting City, couldn’t care less if they all moved on, no attachment to any of them. 

Sad but true. 

[canarybubbles 1,946]

The last two seasons may have made me overly negative, but I think the most likely outcome is that Webber flogs Sara for a good bit of money but then spaffs it on a load of useless loans plus a few crocks, all of whom are unsuited to playing 4-3-3, and then demands that his Head Coach plays 4-3-3 and sacks him if he doesn't.