Tzolis

[PockthorpePete 331]

It looks like Wagener believes he can work his magic on him. There have been no additions to those on the pitch yet we are playing a much better game - individually and as a team. Cannot be a coincidence.. Must be Wagner.  Maybe if was Smiffy and Lardy (Smith/Shakespeare) who did for him previously, and he will come good. Here's hoping.

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

22 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

It looks like Wagener believes he can work his magic on him. There have been no additions to those on the pitch yet we are playing a much better game - individually and as a team. Cannot be a coincidence.. Must be Wagner.  Maybe if was Smiffy and Lardy (Smith/Shakespeare) who did for him previously, and he will come good. Here's hoping.

He cost £9m, surely there’s a player after all. You’ve got to trust Stu. 

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

I quite like the way you felt the need to clarify who Smiffy and Lardy are 😜🤣

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

Well, Wagner seems to have got Dowell to pull his finger out, and Onel to actually look up when he's in the penalty area.

So anything's possible.

[Greavsy 2,415]

28 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I quite like the way you felt the need to clarify who Smiffy and Lardy are 😜🤣

Made me chuckle too Ken. 

Maybe forgotten already..... 

[PockthorpePete 331]

26 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Well, Wagner seems to have got Dowell to pull his finger out, and Onel to actually look up when he's in the penalty area.

So anything's possible.

I did like Onel's little dance (shuffle) for our second goal. Maybe then there's still hope 'penny for the guy 'Gibson, or perhaps not.

[chicken 2,627]

1 hour ago, Pyro Pete said:

Well, Wagner seems to have got Dowell to pull his finger out, and Onel to actually look up when he's in the penalty area.

So anything's possible.

The head up thing can be down to confidence. So can sticking in a tackle - his biggest criticism of Dowell.

If you look back at the 18-19 season he scored 8 goals and created 10 assists. That was his first full season of English football after arriving the previous January.

The key to Onel is confidence and focus - if Wagner can get both of those things out of him, he's a good player. I have noticed that both he and Aarons are not that great at crossing the ball, they are far better at cutting it back in on the deck or playing in a hard, low ball into the area. It may make them a bit limited in terms of delivery but if it works, they just have to keep doing it.

Right now, Onel should be at his peak, he now has experience coupled with still having that explosive pace and strength. He's got that ability to make something out of nothing too. He now needs to deliver it on a consistent basis. As Farke used to say - if he did the great things more often, he'd be playing regularly for a champions league team. 

[hogesar 9,687]

So far Tzolis doesn't seem to have any of the natural attributes let alone any real sort of footballing sense or vision but someone must have seen something to part with the money we did for him (we won't have paid 9m for him as some above have speculated, but still good money for us regardless).

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

To be fair the lad hasn’t had a huge amount of game time with us this season, maybe he needs a few ‘age’ games to get up to speed. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

24 minutes ago, hogesar said:

So far Tzolis doesn't seem to have any of the natural attributes let alone any real sort of footballing sense or vision but someone must have seen something to part with the money we did for him (we won't have paid 9m for him as some above have speculated, but still good money for us regardless).

He can finish. Like, seriously finish. 

On all highlights videos I've seen of him on YouTube from pre-Norwich he just looks like a classic centre forward, I struggle to look past that as his natural position.

Even on those videos there's no evidence at all that he's got the attributes to play as a winger. He's just not a winger.

I have this deep fear that we'll end up writing him off and flogging him back to Greece for £1.5m and he'll pop up a few years later as a 25 goal a season centre forward for Benfica or Roma or something. 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[canarybubbles 1,923]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

So far Tzolis doesn't seem to have any of the natural attributes let alone any real sort of footballing sense or vision but someone must have seen something to part with the money we did for him (we won't have paid 9m for him as some above have speculated, but still good money for us regardless).

He wasn't just some Webber flight of fantasy - before he came to us, he was touted as one of the most promising youngsters in Europe. I know football history is littered with promising young players who didn't fulfil their potential, but there's clearly something there to work on and we have to hope Wagner can develop it.

We have to find a role that suits him and then give him a run of games to see if he can cut the mustard. Look at how different Sargent, Dowell and Sara are looking now that they square pegs in square holes. Having said that, I agree with TVB that Tzolis does not look like a traditional winger, so I'm not sure quite where he would fit into any system we might play (to me he looks more like a second striker who'd work well in a tall guy/shorter guy two up-front, but obviously I'm no expert).

If anyone can get him to flourish, though, I'm starting to trust Wagner big-time.

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

8 hours ago, hogesar said:

So far Tzolis doesn't seem to have any of the natural attributes let alone any real sort of footballing sense or vision but someone must have seen something to part with the money we did for him (we won't have paid 9m for him as some above have speculated, but still good money for us regardless).

£8.8m upfront in a deal worth up to £10m, so not too far out.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Midlands Yellow

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

There must be some reason or strategy behind why we brought him back from Twente. I know he was injured for a few weeks but he looks to have returned in extremely poor shape. I do wonder if that's due to Twente and not the player himself.

It seems strange to bring in Marquinhos as well which suggests we are looking at him to play centrally. He looks more like a Pukki type than a Hernandez. He's clearly not a winger.

Of course Webber might have just got it horribly wrong!

[cambridgeshire canary 6,741]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

There must be some reason or strategy behind why we brought him back from Twente. I know he was injured for a few weeks but he looks to have returned in extremely poor shape. I do wonder if that's due to Twente and not the player himself.

It seems strange to bring in Marquinhos as well which suggests we are looking at him to play centrally. He looks more like a Pukki type than a Hernandez. He's clearly not a winger.

Of course Webber might have just got it horribly wrong!

Webber? Getting it wrong?

[hogesar 9,687]

9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

He can finish. Like, seriously finish. 

On all highlights videos I've seen of him on YouTube from pre-Norwich he just looks like a classic centre forward, I struggle to look past that as his natural position.

Even on those videos there's no evidence at all that he's got the attributes to play as a winger. He's just not a winger.

I have this deep fear that we'll end up writing him off and flogging him back to Greece for £1.5m and he'll pop up a few years later as a 25 goal a season centre forward for Benfica or Roma or something. 

 

I don't know where you sit at the ground or if you get there early enough but I think anyone in the lower barclay who's seen our finishing drills before a match will argue his finishing is one of the worst in the squad. I know I shouldn't go by that, but I'm loathe to go by videos against defenders even I'd fancy myself against. 

[hogesar 9,687]

3 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

He wasn't just some Webber flight of fantasy - before he came to us, he was touted as one of the most promising youngsters in Europe. I know football history is littered with promising young players who didn't fulfil their potential, but there's clearly something there to work on and we have to hope Wagner can develop it.

We have to find a role that suits him and then give him a run of games to see if he can cut the mustard. Look at how different Sargent, Dowell and Sara are looking now that they square pegs in square holes. Having said that, I agree with TVB that Tzolis does not look like a traditional winger, so I'm not sure quite where he would fit into any system we might play (to me he looks more like a second striker who'd work well in a tall guy/shorter guy two up-front, but obviously I'm no expert).

If anyone can get him to flourish, though, I'm starting to trust Wagner big-time.

Possibly. I'm only going by what i've seen rather than his reputation or highlight video's from the past.

[jaberry2 550]

I cant see him playing as a winger for too much longer. Be good to get him playing in a Dowell position.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I don't know where you sit at the ground or if you get there early enough but I think anyone in the lower barclay who's seen our finishing drills before a match will argue his finishing is one of the worst in the squad.

It could be a confidence thing though, his confidence could be on the floor,

I mean, I get your point about the standard of the Greek league which essentially is the SPL with two or three strong sides, but that doesn't account for his two goals against PSV in the Europa League (across two games, not a brace), and his brace against Benfica in the Champions League.

[CANARYKING 639]

Did he touch the ball when he came on Tuesday?

[Chelm Canary 404]

Not seen much of anything in the cameos hes's had since coming back. 

You would expect to see at least flashes of promise, something to build on. Admittedly he's not had much time, but he doesn't get on the ball at all. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Chelm Canary

[Thumbbass 319]

In the away game vs Newcastle in the PL he started (when they went down to 10 men) he looked possibly the most likely to do something and was, I thought, quite harshly taken off at half time. Seemed a bizarre decision considering some of the dross the rest of the midfield were responsible for. It was a terrible team performance but he did show he was willing to put himself about and try to make things happen. There were flashes of something in that game.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,052]

We haven't seen enough of him but what we have seen suggests he's dire.  I hope I'm wrong and he has time to prove me wrong yet.

[repman 635]

I think he can easily remain a winger it's just important that people realise he isn't like Onel. In fact there's very few players like Onel, he's in that Adama Traore group where they dribble first and do everything else second. Hernandez's skillset is a very handy one to have, it can drag us up the pitch at any given time, though once he gets up there it's a question of end product. Tzolis isn't that sort of player, he's a much better creative passer and goal threat. Making him receive on the touchline and expecting him to do what Onel does is the same as putting a load of high crosses into the box for Pukki, it's completely misunderstanding their skillsets. 

Also I've said the same about Idah but he's barely played the last 2 years, we signed a teenager out of the Greek league, there's a lot of projection in that sort of signing. It's a huge step up to the PL, and he was playing for the worst side in the league. Generally I find the criticism of players a bit strange when it was obvious last year we were nowhere near as coherent a side as anyone else in the league. Yes some players might not have been good enough but it's very easy to look bad in a bad team. I don't really know what people were expecting to see in Tzolis, and even what we did see was very little I'm not sure there was enough time to actually judge him.

I think bringing him back is the club realising that we need to manage the development of some of our young players a lot better, the Twente loan started out alright but there might have been lingering doubts over whether he could force his way back into the side. Also we have a decision to make on Onel and a new contract, if we can bridge the gap to Tzolis/Rowe between now and the end of the season then it basically saves the club a bit of money, if not then we'll have to do that next season instead.

[lake district canary 4,536]

1 hour ago, CANARYKING said:

Did he touch the ball when he came on Tuesday?

Yes, he made at least one important tackle. 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, he made at least one important tackle. 

Well, there you are then. We badly need a defensive central midfielder...🤩

[PockthorpePete 331]

Confidence. No. You don't become a pro footballer and lack confidence. It is all about motivation. Going that extra half yard. Can anyone name one player who improved under Smiffy and Lardy ? Yet within days of Wagners appojtment there was a marked difference. At Preston we were sharper, and not frightened of losing possession if it meant a quick attack. Carrick has done much the same at Boro. How many rimes have you heard the phrase "we wanted it more than them" I expect Wagner has told Onel and Dowell that it is up to them to show why we should offer them another contract Wagners comments about Hernandez are telling - he still wants more from him. I expect that will be the same for Tzolis. .There is definitellly potential there. Whereas donkeys like Hugill are at best a step up from a sunday leafue player, hence his departure  swiftly after Wagner arrived. If we continue with this faced attacking play (as opposed to trying to walk it in) Tzolis will fit in well.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 16/02/2023 at 17:42, PockthorpePete said:

Confidence. No. You don't become a pro footballer and lack confidence. 

Of course a footballer can have a confidence crisis, just like any other human being. This comment is akin to those that say that top footballers can't possibly suffer from depression because they have money (this one particularly galling when it comes from the club which made Justin Fashanu).

Edited February 17, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 16/02/2023 at 09:54, hogesar said:

I don't know where you sit at the ground or if you get there early enough but I think anyone in the lower barclay who's seen our finishing drills before a match will argue his finishing is one of the worst in the squad. I know I shouldn't go by that, but I'm loathe to go by videos against defenders even I'd fancy myself against. 

Ps. We all saw Harry Kane and Patrick Bamford when young and thought they should be in League One didn't we.

[Mason 47 1,384]

Looks a bit shy, a bit reluctant to me. Maybe have to remember all he's really known of Norwich City so far is getting beat every week, barely playing, ending up in the u23s then being bowled out on loan to yet another new country. Third manager since he's been with us, too.

I'm predicting Wagner will work on bringing him (and Nunez for that matter) back into a state of relative confidence gently. A goal soon would do either the world of good.

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,392]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Of course a footballer can have a confidence crisis, just like any other human being. This comment is akin to those that say that top footballers can't possibly suffer from depression because they have money (this one particularly galling when it comes from the club which made Justin Fashanu).

Very well said. They're human beings just like the rest of us, with all the same issues and demons. Tzolis has had a rough time here and it's completely possible his confidence has taken a knock. I'm delighted he's back here and hope Wagner can get the best out of him. I think there's a player there.