Tzolis

[chicken 2,654]

Smith said last season that Tzolis' confidence was low and that the weight of his transfer fee had a bearing on him, that he was trying too hard and being far too critical of himself. They loaned him out back then to get him away from the spotlight a bit and I suspect the same was done this season. We have sports psychologists and I suspect this would have been part of their advice too.

As others have said, especially if he thinks he should be coming onto a premier league pitch where the most experienced players are performing badly and expecting himself to turn it around for the team and club. You need to get a player out of the mindset and into one that is enjoying their football again.

[canarybubbles 1,947]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

Smith said last season that Tzolis' confidence was low and that the weight of his transfer fee had a bearing on him, that he was trying too hard and being far too critical of himself. They loaned him out back then to get him away from the spotlight a bit and I suspect the same was done this season. We have sports psychologists and I suspect this would have been part of their advice too.

As others have said, especially if he thinks he should be coming onto a premier league pitch where the most experienced players are performing badly and expecting himself to turn it around for the team and club. You need to get a player out of the mindset and into one that is enjoying their football again.

My speculation is rather different from your speculation.

Tzolis made a stupid mistake (the penalty) and was rightly reprimanded and punished by Farke, but he would have been brought back into the fold because Farke made it clear that he felt Tzolis had great potential. However, Farke was then sacked and we got Smith.

Smith made almost no effort to integrate Tzolis into the squad, hardly played him at all, put him in the under-23s, and then announced that he wouldn't even play him at Championship level so he was sent out on loan.

Interesting that as soon as Wagner came in, the club made a big effort to get Tzolis back from the loan, which suggests it had been done at Smith's behest. As for Smith's comments about Tzolis' confidence, you read them as sincere, I read them as fake. Smith wanted little Villa boy and if he had to show a bit of phony concern in order to get him, he would. I know this last bit is pure speculation but there is no sign that any of our players particularly cared for Smith and, except for little Villa boy, they seemed relieved when he was gone.

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by canarybubbles

[Ulfotto 644]

Hopefully he comes good.

Having seen him so far the player he reminds me of is Ryan Jarvis. Touch, technique, footballing awareness, control and finishing first class. But just does not have the physical attributes to support a career at the highest levels in this country.

Hope I’m wrong though.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Ulfotto

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

15 hours ago, chicken said:

Smith said last season that Tzolis' confidence was low and that the weight of his transfer fee had a bearing on him, that he was trying too hard and being far too critical of himself. They loaned him out back then to get him away from the spotlight a bit and I suspect the same was done this season.

But he didn't have a loan last season, his only loan has been this season.

I think you may be correct about Smith saying that, but that he said it this season... before his only loan, to Twente.

[chicken 2,654]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

But he didn't have a loan last season, his only loan has been this season.

I think you may be correct about Smith saying that, but that he said it this season... before his only loan, to Twente.

Yarp probably muddling memories, but I'm pretty certain he did talk about the price above his head weighing on him last season.

Edited February 18, 2023 by chicken

[Captain Holt 522]

Think he may get a start Tuesday or Saturday. Good luck to him.

[Capt. Pants 4,297]

1 minute ago, Captain Holt said:

Think he may get a start Tuesday or Saturday. Good luck to him.

Well we must be due another Idah injury soon.

He's held up well since Smith said he was 'joint compromised' or whatever it was.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,421]

14 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Well we must be due another Idah injury soon.

He's held up well since Smith said he was 'joint compromised' or whatever it was.

CG said on Norfolk that he was seen taking pain killers or something pitch side. 

[CDMullins 446]

On 16/02/2023 at 17:42, PockthorpePete said:

Confidence. No. You don't become a pro footballer and lack confidence. It is all about motivation. Going that extra half yard. Can anyone name one player who improved under Smiffy and Lardy ? Yet within days of Wagners appojtment there was a marked difference. At Preston we were sharper, and not frightened of losing possession if it meant a quick attack. Carrick has done much the same at Boro. How many rimes have you heard the phrase "we wanted it more than them" I expect Wagner has told Onel and Dowell that it is up to them to show why we should offer them another contract Wagners comments about Hernandez are telling - he still wants more from him. I expect that will be the same for Tzolis. .There is definitellly potential there. Whereas donkeys like Hugill are at best a step up from a sunday leafue player, hence his departure  swiftly after Wagner arrived. If we continue with this faced attacking play (as opposed to trying to walk it in) Tzolis will fit in well.

Jesus wept.

[lake district canary 4,551]

Neraly everything Tzolis did today on the pitch was geared to avoiding taking a risk - often passing back rather than try and beat his man or risk a forward pass. That really strikes me as someone who really wants to do well, but isn't confident enough to go for it. Neat and tidy, made some tackles, very much like Cantwell was when he first made the first team in 2018. Cantwell started carefully and began to blossom a bit more as he got a few games - gradually becoming more expansive - and I would think that Tzolis will improve like that with more minutes. However that means taking someone else's place in the team and if his natural competition for a place is Hernandez, then as long as Hernandez does as well as he is doing, that will limit Tzolis's time in the team.

But he is still young and has time to come good. He may not be the quickest, but he has talent and will learn what he needs to do to be effective with his talent. What he needs though is support when he does play, not the kind of dismissive stuff we hear/see from some fans. He isn't a Cantwell for who image was everything, he is a young lad in a foreign country, talented and needs a bit of encouragement to be able to produce his best.

I suspect Wagner will get the best out of him, as he likes players to go out and express themselves - and that is exactly what Tzolis needs to hear - to get out on the pitch and go for it. Perhaps not today, as it was a poor day for the whole team, but in future games, to go out and enjoy himself.

[kenfoggo 247]

“Go out and enjoy yourself”? Top coaching tip from LDC. I would much rather he was told to go out there and get involved gather than hiding from the ball. Put yourself about and create a presence. Challenge. Be physical. However, if we see Tzolis again playing for Norwich it will be more of the same ineffectual amateur play.

[Samwam27 532]

I think LDC is right. He's clearly low on confidence (and whilst young has every right to be the way Smith shunted him off at the start of the season without trying him)

Wagner showed he wanted him back, which is a sign of trust from the manager (probably in the same way Idah has been given a new contract) & I suspect Wagner is now trying to slowly integrate him back into the team. He is still very young, but will improve the more minutes he gets.

My current thinking is that players should be playing for their futures, with so many players contracts ending in the summer and a likely rebuild. I'm all for giving Tzolis more of a chance to shine and improve, and if the senior players continue to play badly, bring in the youngsters as we have little to play for this season (a play off would be morale boosting, promotion a near disaster, and we're too good for relegation) and others should get a chance.

We want hungry players playing for Wagner, and I suspect Wagner may feel he hasn't yet got the right sort of players to play his style. So hears to giving Tzolis a chance to get better with minutes (& hopefully Idah finally taking his chance!) 

[hogesar 9,766]

43 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

I think LDC is right. He's clearly low on confidence (and whilst young has every right to be the way Smith shunted him off at the start of the season without trying him)

Smith did try him initially. He was dreadful.

[Google Bot 3,329]

Hopefully he gets at least 45 mins under his belt soon.  I don't know if anyone watched the dugout video club put out, but I noticed how invested and passionate he is watching teammates play - Watch this and keep an eye on him:

Also, you can see Sarge has a good bond with him (9:25) - maybe as they joined in the same window and had that great performance vs Bournemouth?

I know it's probably silly picking up on these little things, but I find them all positive aspects to his integration.

[repman 635]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

Smith did try him initially. He was dreadful.

He played him vs Newcastle and then hooked him at half time. Not sure that's really giving him much of a chance.

[hogesar 9,766]

2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Hopefully he gets at least 45 mins under his belt soon.  I don't know if anyone watched the dugout video club put out, but I noticed how invested and passionate he is watching teammates play - Watch this and keep an eye on him:

Also, you can see Sarge has a good bond with him (9:25) - maybe as they joined in the same window and had that great performance vs Bournemouth?

I know it's probably silly picking up on these little things, but I find them all positive aspects to his integration.

I mean great but all irrelevant if the few chances he does get he continues to look like a lost puppy or charity winner.

[repman 635]

I think he should probably start on Tuesday, probably in the role alongside Idah up top. I haven't been the biggest fan of Wagner using 2 strikers as it ends up with one or the other trying to play number 10 and I don't think any of them are particularly good at it. Nunez would be the other contender for it considering he came on there at HT yesterday, in an ideal world they would both be in the side. Giving these young players starts is the most important part in their development. Not just in terms of minutes played but for their confidence too, if the club makes it clear their invested in a player growing then that will settle the mind of the player. It's all well and good saying go enjoy yourself for the last 15 minutes of a game but if those 15 minutes are going to be what decides whether you start the next game then I reckon it would be pretty hard to go out and enjoy it. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 16/02/2023 at 09:54, hogesar said:

I don't know where you sit at the ground or if you get there early enough but I think anyone in the lower barclay who's seen our finishing drills before a match will argue his finishing is one of the worst in the squad. I know I shouldn't go by that, but I'm loathe to go by videos against defenders even I'd fancy myself against. 

Bosh! 

[canarydan23 4,060]

On 19/02/2023 at 15:39, hogesar said:

I mean great but all irrelevant if the few chances he does get he continues to look like a lost puppy or charity winner.

Probably now got the best goals per minute played in the squad!

Αγαπάω Τζολισ

[Coneys Knee 996]

So pleased for him tonight. He looked like he was going to burst into tears when he scored that. People need to give him a break and get behind him. He’s a young lad that’s struggled to settle that’s all. He needs a carrow road arm round him.

[Ian 1,136]

Hope he gets a good run now.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Coneys Knee said:

So pleased for him tonight. He looked like he was going to burst into tears when he scored that. People need to give him a break and get behind him. He’s a young lad that’s struggled to settle that’s all. He needs a carrow road arm round him.

People seem to forget how young he actually is, he's only just turned 21, way too early to write him off.

Problem is I'm now wondering what Wagner could do with Rashica! 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

On 19/02/2023 at 08:28, kenfoggo said:

“Go out and enjoy yourself”? Top coaching tip from LDC. I would much rather he was told to go out there and get involved gather than hiding from the ball. Put yourself about and create a presence. Challenge. Be physical. However, if we see Tzolis again playing for Norwich it will be more of the same ineffectual amateur play.

That is basically “going out and enjoying yourself”

[HazzaJet 256]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

People seem to forget how young he actually is, he's only just turned 21, way too early to write him off.

Problem is I'm now wondering what Wagner could do with Rashica! 

As it stands probably not a lot, as there’s strong belief that he doesn’t want to play for us anymore. Might change if we get promoted though

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, HazzaJet said:

As it stands probably not a lot, as there’s strong belief that he doesn’t want to play for us anymore.

That was also said to be true of Tzolis, that he didn't settle in England, but I guess his struggles at Twente have perhaps made him reassess. 

[Google Bot 3,329]

What a moment that was when he came running over - oh my god I lost my ****! GET IN!!  

[hogesar 9,766]

33 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Probably now got the best goals per minute played in the squad!

Αγαπάω Τζολισ

Delighted for him (doesn't yet change my personal view on him as a player). Confidence can play a huge part.

But if Sara, Tzolis and Nunez all turn out to be superstars your desperate desire to sack Webber is going to look (even more) stupid.

[HazzaJet 256]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That was also said to be true of Tzolis, that he didn't settle in England, but I guess his struggles at Twente have perhaps made him reassess. 

I think Tzolis was more humiliated by his asking price. Like you’ve said though he only turned 21 last month and was still a teenager when we signed him, and so I’ve always had belief in him. Rashica was already 25 when we signed him and will be 27 this summer

[hogesar 9,766]

38 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Bosh! 

Good finish tonight but probably a bit early to be quoting posts at this stage 🤣🤣 maybe at the end of the season if he's added 5 more to his name..

[AJ 1,232]

He's already done more for us than Rashica did 😅.

Really pleased for him, hopefully he can put some pressure on Argos now

Edited February 21, 2023 by AJ